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carolyn francis
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Soft Proofing in LR4

Jul 14, 2012 12:36 PM

If I adjust hue/saturation to turn off the warning indicators when soft proofing is ON for sRGB, is the result on my calibrated monitor screen the colours that are sent to Blurb via Book module and the colours that will print?  I read forums stating disappointing results in Blurb publishing through LR4.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2012 1:00 PM   in reply to carolyn francis

    More or less.

    If you want total control over the way your book will print you have to download Blurb's icc-profile, install it, and use the softproofing feature in Photoshop.

    Lr does not allow for softproofing to Blurb's icc profile since this profile is a CMYK profile. But in Photoshop CSxx you can.

     

    sRGB is only an approximation of what your printed book will look like. Be particularly careful with shadows. When you calibrate your monitor the luminance (brightness, intensity) of your monitor should not be above 120 cd/m2 - better at about 110. If your monitor is set to a brighter value all your prints will come out too dark.

    After adjusting the brightness of your monitor evaluate your photos for the book carefully to the shadows so that they don't print too dark.

     

    If you have a good printer available at your place do some test prints: Set Color Management in the print Module of Lr to <Printer Managed> and set your printer to sRGB. This will give you a good idea what your book will look like. Naturally, it also depends on the paper that you choose for your book - and you can't simulate that with you rprinter.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2012 1:07 PM   in reply to carolyn francis

    carolyn francis wrote:

     

    If I adjust hue/saturation to turn off the warning indicators

    Don't be overly cautious with the out-of-gamut indicators. If you turn your saturation down until all warnings disappear your prints might come out too desaturated.

    The out-of-gamut warning means that the color cannot be printed in sRGB as it appears on screen. You have to expect some desaturation here or some color shifts. Naturally, if you get the color warning in the face of a protrait, you are right to be careful. But if it's a smaller are in a landscape or cityscape - let it go and don't change it.

     
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  • Andrew Rodney
    1,104 posts
    Apr 16, 2009
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    Jul 15, 2012 10:02 AM   in reply to web-weaver

    The OOG gamut overlay is not accurate nor necessary! In terms of accuracy, save out say a document in sRGB, open in LR then soft proof for sRGB and turn on the OOG overlay. See anything? You shouldn’t. It is a bug, one you’ll see in both LR and Photoshop. For that reason alone, the OOG overlay should be dismissed although there are other reasons to skip the use.

     

    Trying to remove the OOG (assuming they were correct) is kind of a waste of time. The ICC profile that will convert the data will do this faster, with far more precision and with options (Perceptual or Relative Colorimetric). The idea that you need to remove them is based on very, very old school image processing circa 1997 and earlier before Photoshop 5 had soft proofing and the ability to use profiles to convert our data. As an example see: http://digitaldog.net/files/LR4_softproof2.mov

     

    In terms of Blurb output, well any kind of soft proofing, let alone dealing with OGG is a big waste of time. First, you have to upload sRGB to them, they will convert that data to CMYK using who know’s what ICC profile for what print conditions. Now they do provide a single CMYK profile for soft proofing that you can’t use in LR (doesn’t support that color model) but you could do this in Photoshop. But why? There is no way this single profile defines all the possible output conditions they provide (every paper requires it’s own ICC profile). So basically you just upload the data you see in LR, hope for the best. Might as well let LR convert to sRGB upon upload, it will use a RelCol rendering intent because that is the only option.

     

    The output I got from a Blurb book with some pretty tough reference images and synthetic images I use to test such output was pretty disappointing but this had nothing to do with OOG. The output just wasn’t good! The difference in color and tone between the same image on the cover and printed inside the book was shocking. Maybe I just hit them on a bad day, but I wasn’t at all impressed with the color, and the same book images set out in Aperture was vastly superior!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2012 11:42 AM   in reply to Andrew Rodney

    Andrew Rodney wrote:

     

     

    The output I got from a Blurb book with some pretty tough reference images and synthetic images I use to test such output was pretty disappointing but this had nothing to do with OOG. The output just wasn’t good! The difference in color and tone between the same image on the cover and printed inside the book was shocking. Maybe I just hit them on a bad day, but I wasn’t at all impressed with the color, and the same book images set out in Aperture was vastly superior!

     

    My experience with Blurb was different. I softproofed my images in CS5 to the Blurb icc profile, and the book printed just as I saw the images on my screen.

    I have to say though that I did not specify any of the new papers that they offer but printed on photo luster. The image on the dust jacket and same on the inside printed identical for all purposes - although on close inspection the blues are a bit more turquoise on the cover - but you would notice it only when you look at both side by side.

    But then again - I have seen it often in high-end coffee table books: The image on the dust jacket looks vastly different than the same image inside the book.

     

    Also, I did not push the envelope.

     

    But you are right: a print icc profile is good only if it is made for a specific paper.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2012 11:49 AM   in reply to Andrew Rodney

    OP: So the OOG display is conservative, warning for things that are slightly in gamut.  If soft-proofing shows no warnings then you’re ok.  If soft-proofing shows large areas with problems then you’re probably not ok.  If there are a few areas then you may or may not have problems that are noticeable.  For an image showing large areas out of gamut with respect to sRGB, exporting as sRGB, re-importing and doing a side-by-side in Library will show what happens to those colors during the profile conversion to sRGB.  It is unlikely the colors stayed the same, and it may or may not be better than what you could so by hand.

     

     

     

    AR:  Did you send your Aperture output to Blurb after using their CMYK profile or how are you comparing Aperture to Lightroom?

     
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  • Andrew Rodney
    1,104 posts
    Apr 16, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2012 12:58 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    ssprengel wrote:

     

    OP: So the OOG display is conservative, warning for things that are slightly in gamut.

    OOG treats a color 1% and 100% out of gamut the same. So again, not real useful.

     

    AR:  Did you send your Aperture output to Blurb after using their CMYK profile or how are you comparing Aperture to Lightroom?

    The Blurb book was sent directly to them from LR. The Aperture book was sent to them directly out of Aperture. Other than the significant quality difference in the print process from Aperture, another difference is Aperture sends Adobe RGB out, LR sRGB. That doesn’t account for the differences in poor quality from Blurb and smudges (black toner?) but does account for less saturation seen on many of the test images. I can live with the differences in color gamut, the poor gray balance, off colors and smudges are not acceptable. Nor is the significant differences in color and tone between the cover and inside book using the same image.

     

    I’m comparing two different printers using the same files. The book sizes were a tad different. The papers were different. The quality was very different.

     
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