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margieannejulie

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PS file opening up as a square inch window

Jul 15, 2012 2:18 AM

It happens both by dragging the file into the icon, AND opening up with control click, so i am getting this tiny window.

Of course I can enlarge by numerous command +, or magnify tool, but the idea would be to be able to open it up at a reasonable size.

The worst is when by enlarging, sometimes it turns into a rectangulAR stripe, and I have to enlarge it by pulling the bottom corner.

This happened in the past with different computers and different OS< so the fact that I have the latest Lion is not part

of the issue, I hope.

I posted this in the past, unsuccesfully,

2496 Views 47 Replies Latest reply: station_two, Jul 16, 2012 8:03 PM

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1. c.pfaffenbichler,

Jul 15, 2012 2:47 AM in reply to margieannejulie

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Could you please post a screenshot with the pertinent Panels visible?
Do you employ Application Frame?

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Are Photoshop and OS fully updated and have you performed the usual trouble-shooting routines (trashing prefs by keeping command-alt-shift/ctrl-alt-shift pressed while starting Photoshop after making sure all customized presets like Actions, Patterns, Brushes etc. have been saved and making a note of the Preferences you’ve changed, 3rd party plug-ins deactivation, system maintenance, cleaning caches, font validation, etc.)?

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2. Noel Carboni,

Jul 15, 2012 11:13 AM in reply to margieannejulie

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Also, how is your Window - Application Frame option set (checked or unchecked)?

-Noel

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3. Curt Y,

Jul 15, 2012 11:23 AM in reply to margieannejulie

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If you have your photos in iPhoto what you are probably seeing is the thumbnail. iPhoto keeps the images in a hidden packet.

What is the image size in pixles - Height and Width?

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4. margieannejulie,

Jul 15, 2012 11:41 AM in reply to Noel Carboni

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it was checked now. however, I will monitor that in the future, considering that the problem is really on and off, I can't garantee you that that was the real cause, unless I had changed it inadvertently

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5. margieannejulie,

Jul 15, 2012 11:42 AM in reply to Curt Y

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I have never used i photo, i don't know what that is

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6. Noel Carboni,

Jul 15, 2012 11:44 AM in reply to margieannejulie

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If you have the Application Frame enabled, there is a possibility that you have shortened it to be so small that images try to open inside a very small space.

I'm not quite clear on whether you've just enabled it or disabled it. I'm thinking you want to try running with it disabled.

-Noel

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7. margieannejulie,

Jul 15, 2012 12:28 PM in reply to Noel Carboni

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well, I think I just found out - by checking and unchecking it - what an application frame is. That's the gray area that is surrounding the picture, right?

And it seems to me quite useless, right? Unless you need some sourrunding area to work in, like your command T, for example.

Now, when the problem happens, the picture is actually situated inside a gray area, although very small, and the picture is even smaller then that.

So I might actually have made the application frame that small BUT HOW?

AT this point I should keep it unchecked, not checked, if it causes problems!!!!!!

You would make a good detective!

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8. Noel Carboni,

Jul 15, 2012 12:59 PM in reply to margieannejulie

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No, it's probably not the Application Frame if the gray background is bigger vertically than the small image that's opening. Most Mac users turn off the Application Frame, while that option is not available to PC users.

I have to ask, are the pixel dimensions of this image you're opening just very small? Photoshop would open, for example, a 60 x 40 pixel image at the size of a postage stamp no matter what. That's just how big the image is in pixels, as shown at 100% zoom. Photoshop does not zoom in on small images to fit them to screen when you first open them, though it WILL zoom OUT on very large images so you can see them in their entirety.

-Noel

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9. margieannejulie,

Jul 15, 2012 1:37 PM in reply to Noel Carboni

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No, not the case. I get my images about 5000 by 2000 px from my camera and NEITHER PS, nor myself have ever reduced my pics that small. the smallest I have gone in my 4 years of PS has been 450, because a web site asked me, and I have to go into image size to do that, which is quite difficult to do inadvertently,
unless you have different kind of problems!

the pixels are still there, you bet!

I said that the gray area is bigger than the picture inside, but the gray area, when the picture first opens, is not bigger vertically. it is perfectly surrounding the picture
with the same geometry, like the tiny square (picture), 1/2 inch - is surrounded by a gray square ( about 2 in for the frame of the gray area).

I tried to make the app frame smaller but it goes smaller in a rectangule, not in a square, and it does not get quite that small, so you are probably right.

However, since mac users keep it off, this was very interesting to know, so I will keep it on for a bit and see what kind of problem it will give>

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10. station_two,

Jul 15, 2012 1:54 PM in reply to margieannejulie

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The "Application Frame" is a device introduced in the Mac version of Photoshop 11.x ("CS4") as an accommodation to recent PC-to-Mac switchers who couldn't deal with the Macintosh way of working. It was off by default then; now it's on by default. It's simply a way of mimicking Windows behavior, that's all.

You cannot in any way shape or form, "re-size" the Application Frame. It's either on or off, period.

I cannot for the world envision what you are trying to describe. Screen shots would be helpful.

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11. PECourtejoie,

Jul 16, 2012 5:55 AM in reply to station_two

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It might be your point of view, but explanation that the team gave back then was that it helped to display N-view (2across, etc.) and tabbed images, allowed to focus on the image, give cross-platform consistency (close to your explanation), plus it adds some shortcuts (double-click it to open a document, try modifiers too.)
Many Apple-made applications also use this way of working, and fullscreen mode is even one of the features of OS X Lion.
You are entitled to dislike it, of course, but I don't think it should be dismissed as a windows gimmick. I sometimes switch it on when juggling with apps, but Control-Tab can be very fast, too.

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12. Curt Y,

Jul 16, 2012 9:02 AM in reply to margieannejulie

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When you have the small picture and you click on Image/Image Size what is the height and width in pixels show in this box?

No matter what your camera does this info is what PS is working on at the momemt.

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13. margieannejulie,

Jul 16, 2012 11:38 AM in reply to Curt Y

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AS I SUSPECTED it was still 5000 X 3500 YOU CAN'T CHANGE IMAGE SIZE UNLESS YOU REDUCE THE PIXELS IN THE IMAGE SIZE WINDOWS.

AND I DIDN'T, SORRY

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14. Noel Carboni,

Jul 16, 2012 11:41 AM in reply to margieannejulie

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Do you know how to take a screenshot?

I think it would be helpful if you would reproduce the problem, then capture your screen and post it here, just so everyone knows exactly what you're seeing.

-Noel

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15. margieannejulie,

Jul 16, 2012 11:43 AM in reply to station_two

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SORRY I JUST DID IT , BY PUSHING IN THE FRAME. THEN I OPENED A PICTURE AND IT FELL IN THERE, TINY TINY TINY, SO I UNCHECKED IT AND IT OPENED NORMALLY, SORRY.

PROBLEM SOLVED, BY NOEL.

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16. Noel Carboni,

Jul 16, 2012 11:51 AM in reply to margieannejulie

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Thanks for clarifying that the problem is solved.

-Noel

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17. margieannejulie,

Jul 16, 2012 12:08 PM in reply to Noel Carboni

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As soon as I have the time, for now is quite simple: contrary to the person who doesn't understand English, and says that you can't modify a app window, I just did it,

Remember you said before I may have actually made the app frame smaller? So I did exactly that, I made it smaller.

This is simple English; YOU PULL IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER, AS IN ANY WINDOW OF ANY OS, MAYBE HE DID NOT KNOW,
And you actually can, may he has never tried.
After you have done that, you open a pic and it will fall in there, tiny tiny tiny, UNCHECK IT, AND IT WILL OPEN NORMALLY.

BY THE WAY, YOU CAN'T REDUCE THE IMAGE SIZE OF A PIC JUST BECAUSE YOU OPEN IT IN A SMALL APP FRAME.

I make my screenshots with grab - an app from the OS, but it doesnt work inside PS, so where is the star?

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18. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 2:06 PM in reply to margieannejulie

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Far be it from me to attempt to argue with you, margieannejulie, but what you are describing is the re-sizing of a document window, not of the "application frame". In any event, you seem to have solved your issue.

At other times you see to be confusing the concept of what has traditionally been called "the apron", i.e. the gray area surrounding a document window, again with your notion of an "application frame".

As I said before, the implementation of the scheme Adobe calls "the application frame" is only an attempt to hide the underlying desktop for the benefit of recent PC-to-Mac converts who freak out at the sight of their desktop behind and around their working document window. It is far from a perfect workaround for Windows-centric users.

When you re-size the document window by dragging its corner, you are not re-sizing "the application frame", you're actually negating the effect of the Adobe-provided workaround by revealing part(s) or all of the desktop or underlying running applications.

In that respect, one can in good faith say that the Application Frame scheme is certainly flawed.

Sorry to have upset you. I'll refrain from intervening in your threads whenever I can remember your user name. My apologies to you.

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19. conroy,

Jul 16, 2012 2:07 PM in reply to margieannejulie

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margieannejulie wrote:

I make my screenshots with grab - an app from the OS, but it doesnt work inside PS, so where is the star?

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20. conroy,

Jul 16, 2012 2:32 PM in reply to station_two

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station_two wrote:

Far be it from me to attempt to argue with you, margieannejulie, but what you are describing is the re-sizing of a document window, not of the "application frame".

The Ps Application Frame (which includes an "apron" that blocks visibility of the desktop and background app windows) can be resized and moved in exactly the same way as Ps floating document windows can be individually resized and moved. The AF can hold tabbed documents, floating document windows each can hold tabbed documents, and AF and floating doc windows can coexist.

Try dragging the bottom-right corner of the AF to see that it can be done in exactly the same way as almost every window on a Mac that's not in full-screen mode.

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21. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 2:35 PM in reply to conroy

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We keep going around in circles.

What you describe is, again, the re-sizing of a document window that you are calling the AF or Application Frame.

My take is that the so-called Application Frame is just a scheme that uses a window plus apron to hide the desktop or underlying running application. The moment you re-size the application window, POOF !, the application frame scheme disappears.

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22. conroy,

Jul 16, 2012 2:50 PM in reply to station_two

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station_two wrote:

We keep going around in circles.

What you describe is, again, the re-sizing of a document window that you are calling the AF or Application Frame.

If we're going round in circles, it's because you have a mistaken concept of the Application Frame. I am describing both the resizing of doc windows and the resizing of the AF because they resize in the same way - the same way as almost every window can be resized with OS X 10.6.8. Drag the bottom right corner to resize.

My take is that the so-called Application Frame is just a scheme that uses a window plus apron to hide the desktop or underlying running application. The moment you re-size the application window, POOF !, the application frame scheme disappears.

No, the CS6 and CS5.1 Application Frame does not disappear when re-sized on my OS X 10.6.8 computer. If it does disappear on your computer then I see why you are at odds with me and margieannejulie. There seems to be something wrong with your setup.

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23. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 2:58 PM in reply to conroy

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No, there's nothing wrong with my setup.

We are simply in complete disagreement on the definition of Application Frame.

The way I have always understood it since it was introduced in CS4 is as a scheme designed to hide the desktop and/or underlying running application. The moment you re-size the document window to reveal part of the underlying desktop, the scheme to hide the desktop has been defeated, and that's what I call the disappearance of the scheme. Not that the window disappears, but that the intended functionality is defeated, therefore disappears.

I have no problem with your disagreeing with that view and, therefore, with me.

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24. conroy,

Jul 16, 2012 3:10 PM in reply to station_two

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OK

I'll just add that I think the intended functionality is not simply to hide the desktop at all times. To me the intention is to encompass the desktop-hiding "apron" and the docked toolbars and docked panels within one (resizable) frame; hence the name Application Frame.

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25. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 4:12 PM in reply to conroy

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conroy2009 wrote:

…I'll just add that I think the intended functionality is not simply to hide the desktop at all times. To me the intention is to encompass the desktop-hiding "apron" and the docked toolbars and docked panels within one (resizable) frame; hence the name Application Frame.

Aha! So this is the root of the misunderstanding!

As you'll see in the screenshot below, I run dual side-by-side monitors, and when I turn on the Application Frame scheme, "the docked toolbars and docked panels" you mention are NOT contained inside the document window which is what you call the Application Frame at all, they remain outside the document window which contains the gray apron.

Thank you for mentioning this, as now I can see how and why we would have two entirely different notions of what tht Application Frame is and does.

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26. Noel Carboni,

Jul 16, 2012 4:12 PM in reply to conroy

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In this case I'd give the nod to conroy for his description and understanding of what the Application Frame is/does. It's just another "mode" of Photoshop UI operation that's apparently crafted to match the way a non-maximized window works on the Windows OS, and yes, it provides some encapsulation of docked panels and allows you to do things like easily make selections beyond the edges of the image. And you can still drag panels out of the Application Frame. Photoshop has so many different ways of working that it's not really like the "typical" application on any system. In this screenshot of my system, you can see the Application Frame occupies almost my entire left monitor (but I can still see some key parts of my desktop), while all my panels are outside the Application Frame on my right monitor.

The reason I made the suggestion I did back in posts 1 and 6 is that sometimes ex-Mac users try to get rid of the Application Frame on a PC by dragging the bottom of it up, to make it very, very short. Unfortunately, that doesn't work and they get weird things happening like images opening up at ridiculously small zoom levels (i.e., tiny).

-Noel

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27. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 5:11 PM in reply to conroy

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Ooooops! I accidentally hit the post button instead of the camera icon before embedding the image:

Command-click on thumbnail to view image in new tab or window, then scroll. It's a very wide screen shot.

As you can see in the screenshot below above, I run dual side-by-side monitors, and when I turn on the Application Frame scheme, "the docked toolbars and docked panels" you mention are NOT contained inside the document window which is what you call the Application Frame at all, they remain outside the document window which contains the gray apron.

Thank you for mentioning this, as now I can see how and why we would have two entirely different notions of what tht Application Frame is and does.

EDITED: "above: for below

Message was edited by: station_two

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28. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 4:21 PM in reply to Noel Carboni

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Noel Carboni wrote:

…it provides some encapsulation of docked panels…

Not on the Mac, Noel. See screen shot above.

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29. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 4:21 PM in reply to Noel Carboni

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What's more, Noel, I see in your screenshot that the panels are outside of the main document window too.

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30. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 4:24 PM in reply to Noel Carboni

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Thanks, Noel. I now feel fully satisfied that my view of the "Application Frame scheme" was and is correct.

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31. Noel Carboni,

Jul 16, 2012 4:27 PM in reply to station_two

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I mentioned that.

I should have said it CAN provide some encapsulation of docked panels. I mention that because the panels, if docked inside, will move around with the edges of the frame. And the way the image zooms and "fits to screen" changes depending on the presence of panels in there.

It's probably futile to try to oversimplify what it is and does - it appears to be and do the same thing on your Mac as on my PC.

And it is resizeable.

-Noel

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32. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 4:31 PM in reply to Noel Carboni

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Noel Carboni wrote:

…the Application Frame …provides some encapsulation of docked panels and allows you to do things like easily make selections beyond the edges of the image…

That can be done on the Mac without the Application Frame scheme too, even in versions before CS4, i.e. before the application frame workaround was introduced.

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33. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 4:34 PM in reply to Noel Carboni

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Noel Carboni wrote:

…it appears to be and do the same thing on your Mac as on my PC.

And it is resizeable…

No, it's not. You are resizing the document window (bet you don't call it "frame" in Windows elther when you resize it ).

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34. Noel Carboni,

Jul 16, 2012 4:35 PM in reply to station_two

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Yeah, you can on a PC too, by making the border of a Windowed document bigger than the document.

It's just that there are about a million different ways to arrange things (not that this is bad), and we're all getting a bit bogged down in trying to "define" the Application Frame's purpose or "figure out why" it is the way it is. I think, based on your screenshot and what Conroy has said, that we can conclude that with the Application Frame enabled on a Mac, Photoshop works pretty much exactly as it does on a PC in the only way that it can.

I wonder why they didn't find a way to make Photoshop work on a PC without it. I see no technical reason it couldn't work identically to the way it does on a Mac without the Application Frame enabled.

-Noel

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35. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 4:39 PM in reply to Noel Carboni

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Noel Carboni wrote:

…I see no technical reason it couldn't work identically to the way it does on a Mac without the Application Frame enabled…

Neither do I, but then I couldn't program my way out of a paper bag, so what do I know?

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36. Noel Carboni,

Jul 16, 2012 4:41 PM in reply to station_two

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station_two wrote:

No, it's not. You are resizing the document window (bet you don't call it "frame" in Windows elther when you resize it ).

I call it the Photoshop Main Window, because it's more than a document window. Do you change its definition to the "documents window" when you tile several documents in it?

Are you saying you can't grab this here, and move it up/left?

-Noel

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37. conroy,

Jul 16, 2012 4:47 PM in reply to station_two

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station_two wrote:

Noel Carboni wrote:

…it appears to be and do the same thing on your Mac as on my PC.

And it is resizeable…

No, it's not. You are resizing the document window (bet you don't call it "frame" in Windows elther when you resize it ).

Yes it is!

One can resize the Application Frame. You clearly misunderstand what the AF is, so it's not surprising that you disagree with the rest of us about what can be done with the AF.

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38. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 4:50 PM in reply to Noel Carboni

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Noel Carboni wrote:

…Are you saying you can't grab this here, and move it up/left?

No, of course I am not saying any such stupid thing. But that resizes the document window, in a way that negates the "Application Frame" workaround.

Noel Carboni wrote:

I call it the Photoshop Main Window…

Aha! Not "application frame". That's what I'm talking about.

Noel Carboni wrote:

…Do you change its definition to the "documents window" when you tile several documents in it?…

I never, EVER tile documents. But, if I did, I think I would refer to them as the tiled open documents windows.

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39. station_two,

Jul 16, 2012 4:52 PM in reply to conroy

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conroy2009 wrote:

…You clearly misunderstand what the AF is, so it's not surprising that you disagree with the rest of us about what can be done with the AF.

I can say the same thing to you.

No point in continuing this discussions now that we know where each side stands. We disagree.

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