Skip navigation
Currently Being Moderated

Help, NOTHING works, have watsted hours on this #@! thing

Jul 22, 2012 5:40 PM

Tags: #video #preview #track #select #bus

I have years of experience with several NLE systems, but Premier Elements 10 is kicking my tail.

 

Consider the simplest of projects where two gopro units are placed on a kayak, one pointed forward in the direction of travel, the second pointed backward (at the person rowing).

 

Each clip is about 15 minutes in duration, bot occur at the same time (overlap).  i would  simply like to select between to two views (forward vs reverse) for my cuts-only program.

 

So  far i have encountered the following problems, design errors in Premiew Elements 10.

 

1. Unable to align botth AV tracks in time.  I smacked the hull with the paddle (similar to a clapper board) to provide a simple way to align the fwd/rev views.  Premeir will not allow me to shift (align) the AV tracks with less then 1-second accuracy.  I even tried turning off "snap", but program refuses to permit frame-accurate shift between tracks.

 

2. Program will not allow me to switch between "Video 1" and "Video 2" tracks in preview window.  Depending on the last clip dragged to the timeline, only one can be selected.  How the $#@! can one determine the edit points if one cannot view the various tracks that are aligned in time??????????????

 

3 Using classing video editing terminology, my clips may be condiered video "bus 1" and video "bus 2".  How does one select one or the other for output to the "output bus" ??        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

   I HAVE WASTED AN ENTIRE AFTERNOON ON THIS  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have observed several other glaring design errors in this program- but thats another post...

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 22, 2012 7:24 PM   in reply to rjflory

    Definitely hearing your anger , rj -- but I'm not sure what you're asking help to do.

     

    What do you mean by "each clip is 15 minutes in duration, both occur at the same time (overlap)." And what do you mean by "I would like to select between the two views (forward vs reverse) for my cuts-only program".

     

    Are you looking for a way to cut between footage from two angles of the same scene?

     

    There's not an easy way to do that in Premiere Elements, unfortunately. But there's a dandy tool for doing it in Premiere Pro CS6.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 23, 2012 12:50 AM   in reply to Steve Grisetti

    What you are mentioning, rj , is multicamera editing. Tools like Vegas on PC, Premiere Pro or FCP X on Mac can do it well,

    and FCP X last version has great ability to synchronize tracks automatically.

    Premiere Elements has not such functions unfortunately.

    Nevertheless, this link can give you a way to sync tracks and do some sort of multicam

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_vRTbLn4lk

     

    Bon courage

    JM

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 23, 2012 8:59 AM   in reply to rjflory

    rjflory wrote:

     

    Thanks for the info.  I had already figured out how to (nearly) align my two clips, just zoom into the audio wavefrorm and drag the linked AV clip until the clapper spike lines up- BTW, his were still off by a large fraction of a second as well.  They need a way to accuratly shift clips by 'frames', not just seconds.

     

    Not sure what you are seeing but PRE clips can be shifted and aligned at frame level.

     

    rjflory wrote:

     

    The most important, yet subtle nugget of information from that video was a statement that only the topmost video clip will be visible.  Does this mean 'editing' is actually performed by punching holes in all but the last video source?  I sure hope not- if so, this is really, really bad and hokey. 

     

    Not so. Most video productions in PRE use multiple tracks. Amongst other things you can vary opacity and enable/disable particular elements of differing tracks (you just need to make a cut at the required in/out points).

     

    rjflory wrote:

    On the other NLE systems I've used

     

    Just wondering why you switched to PRE from a product that you clearly liked?

     

    rjflory wrote:

     

     

    Bummer, looks like I need to find a different (i.e., 'real') editing prog.   I wish they had told me how primitive it was before I wasted real money on it...

     

    As in many things (especially in my case a pathological hatred of Citroen cars from some very bad experiences) you reach a point where nothing could ever make one change their mind.

     

    You've clearly reached that point with PRE, which is a shame, but you will probably be far happier looking elsewhere. If you're looking for similar price-points you might like to try the trial versions of Sony Vegas Movie Studio, Cyberlink Power Producer, Corel VideoStudio Pro Ultimate, Magix Movie Edit Pro.

     

    Good luck and hope you find something that works better for you.

     

    Cheers,
    --
    Neale
    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 23, 2012 11:41 AM   in reply to rjflory

    rjflory wrote:

     

     

    You found a way to shift clips +/- a frame count?  I would appreciate any info you have learned about this.

     

     

    I wanted to try it.  I zoomed out the time line a lot.  Then the displayed hash marks are for single frames and the dragging jumps to each frame.  I could not split a frame.  Since my source is shot in 60p, I could sync up to a 60th of a second.  I think that would be close enough so that lip movement on the video two line would nearly match the audio 1 line.

     

    I think on a project like this I would do a lot of saves to numbered versions so I could back up after a screw up.  I don't think I would get through a project without a slip of a control key.

     

    I also think I might try to insert keyframes and reduce the opacity of video 2 to zero instead of cutting sections out. I might also unlink the audio 2 and video 2 and then delete audio 2 entirely (after I have them synced).  Then shifting between cameras would be simply a matter of adjusting the opacity of video 2.

     

    I may have to invent a project just to try this!

     

    Bill

     

    Bill

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 23, 2012 4:02 PM   in reply to whsprague

    whsprague wrote:

     

    Since my source is shot in 60p,

     

    Now that could give you a problem. Natively PRE10 does not support 60p, only 60i. However the following 'user written add-on preset' might help you out with that:

     

    Premiere Elements 10 (Windows): new editing presets for 1080p60/50, burn Bluray/AVCHD at 24p

     

    whsprague wrote:

     

    I could not split a frame

     

    No, PRE won't let you do that so 1/30th second is the best you'll get. Same with audio, frame level is the best you can get within PRE. But, while a little tedious, you can export the audio from PRE; edit it with an external audio editor (e.g. the free Audacity, or my favourite (the aging but still working) Magix Audio Cleaning Lab) to add or subtract smaller time units; and import it back to PRE.

     

    Cheers,
    --
    Neale
    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 23, 2012 4:13 PM   in reply to rjflory

    rjflory wrote:

     

    You found a way to shift clips +/- a frame count?  I would appreciate any info you have learned about this.

     

    Just zoom in to the maximum, single frame level, and Ctrl+drag. The Ctrl modifier is needed as the PRE default behaviour is to 'ripple edit' but Ctrl turns that off.

     

    rjflory wrote:

     

    Is it possible to display video in the preview/monitor window from from different video tracks? 

    ...

    If I could just switch between the various video tracks on the timeline

    ...

     

    else may I 'disable' portions of clips I don't wish to show through?  Do I have to split the video tracks, then disable those portions?

     

    You've pretty much cracked it. Right-click a clip and you can deselect 'Enable' to disable. If you only wish to disable a portion then just split it at the in/out point so you can just disable that section.

     

    But also note that the timeline is non-destructive. Whatever you do on the timeline does NOT affect your original clips so delete or disable is a personal choice.

     

    If you want to continue working with PRE you should head over to http://muvipix.com and work through Steve Grisettis free eight part introductory tutorials.

     

    Cheers,
    --
    Neale
    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 23, 2012 5:34 PM   in reply to rjflory

    What you are looking to do is called "Multi-cam editing," and PrE does not directly support that. PrPro, however, does, and offers you up to four camera "angles" all synced, with special monitors just for Multi-cam. With Nesting, one can do more than 4-cam editing, but it is not the easiest task. I think that PrProCS 6 has added additional camera angles (above 4), but will need to check that out, as I have never needed to do Multi-cam, beyond four cameras. I know that many have asked for up to 8 cameras in PrPro's Multi-cam function.

     

    To do "multi-cam," in PrE, one needs to adjust Opacity, while editing, and then change that back to 100%, when the editing has been done. There is also no easy way to really "lock down" a multi-cam Project, as one progresses, like one can in PrPro's true Multi-cam editing.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 5:44 AM   in reply to rjflory

    I thought of a couple of things that might help. One is to go into Edit > Keyboard Customization and assign a letter to Clip > Enable. That way you just need to select the clip on the upper track and press a key to toggle enable/disable.

     

    Another is to make the track heights large: right-click on the track header and select  track size > large. Then keep clicking the icon of the movie frame in the track header until you hit the option that fills the entire clip with thumbnails. Hopefully this won't cause your computer to lag to much. Now you can see frames from both clips at the same time. 

     

    If that isn't good for you, you might add the Picture-in-Picture effect to the clips on the upper track. Then you can see both clips in the preview window at the same time. When you are finished, just disable or clear the PiP effects.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 8:16 AM   in reply to nealeh

    nealeh wrote:

     

    whsprague wrote:

     

    Since my source is shot in 60p,

     

    Now that could give you a problem. Natively PRE10 does not support 60p, only 60i. However the following 'user written add-on preset' might help you out with that:

     

    Premiere Elements 10 (Windows): new editing presets for 1080p60/50, burn Bluray/AVCHD at 24p

     

    whsprague wrote:

     

    I could not split a frame

     

    No, PRE won't let you do that so 1/30th second is the best you'll get. Same with audio, frame level is the best you can get within PRE. But, while a little tedious, you can export the audio from PRE; edit it with an external audio editor (e.g. the free Audacity, or my favourite (the aging but still working) Magix Audio Cleaning Lab) to add or subtract smaller time units; and import it back to PRE.

     

    Cheers,
    --
    Neale
    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

    It seems to be commonly assumed on this board that PRE10 does not like 60p.  I didn't know that, so I started using 60p source material from both a Panasonic and Sony camera a few months ago.   I have Windows 7 and PRE10 both installed as 64 bit on an i5 Toshiba laptop with no video card and 8 gigs of ram.

     

    My project preset is AVCHD LITE 720p60 and please note that it is "natively supplied" as a choice.  It does not produce a red render line when 1080p60 files are read into PRE10.  If you use a 60i preset, a red render line is displayed. 

     

    At production time there are the usual choices for YouTube, DVDs and (often overlooked) the high definition "AVCHD disc" that plays HD on most Blu-Ray players.  Although a little hidden, 1080p60 is a "natively supplied" choice.  Go to Share>Computer>AVCHD and click Presets.  Select "MP4 - H264 1920x1080p30" from the drop down menu.  Push the Advanced button, go down to the Frame Rate button and select the Adobe supplied "59.94".   Save it as a preset for future projects. 

     

    Another indication that it is "natively supplied" is the time line itself.  At full magnification there are 60 hash marks between each second. (Probably because I selected a 60p project preset.)  If you watch the frame counter and click ahead one frame at a time, you can watch it go through 60 frames before a second rolls over.

     

    The default bit rate (in my chosen PRE10 provided preset) is a little higher than the source clip bitrate.  Consequently, if you use these settings on a single clip and render, the final MP4 file is a little larger than the original.  But it sure plays nice on my laptop with Splash Lite or on my 55" HD TV with a WD TV Live Media Player.  Please note, that the creation of a 1080p60 file for viewing has limited playback options.  It certainly does not make sense for uploading to YouTube or as a workflow step in making a DVD. 

     

    1080p output is not for everybody.  But, there are "purists" with newer 1080p TVs and camcorders that want to make video from their1080p clips that can be perceived to be equal to the source footage quality.  In fact, I think almost everyone with a new camcorder gets 1080p!  With all due respect to the long timers here, to suggest on an Adobe forum that Adobe's primary consumer NLE can't or won't do it is a disservice to Adobe. 

     

    I have also read in various places where people do have trouble with 1080p60 files.  I can't test or prove it, but it seems to be important that it be PRE10, 64 bit and more than minimum memory for reasonable operation. 

     

    So, in summary, choosing a project preset that makes the work flow fairly smooth on a midgrade laptop and making one change to a Share preset you get 1080p60 output.  To me that's pretty close to "native" even if it is not outlined in a step by step procedure in the instructions.  It is still in there, so an Adobe programmer in India must have put it there.

     

    Bill

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 8:39 AM   in reply to whsprague

    Premiere Elements supports 1080p in DSLR video, not in AVCHD video.

     

    Not without the plug-in supplied in our Tips & Tricks forum anyway.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 9:59 AM   in reply to Steve Grisetti

    Steve Grisetti wrote:

     

    Premiere Elements supports 1080p in DSLR video, not in AVCHD video.

     

    Not without the plug-in supplied in our Tips & Tricks forum anyway.

    Would you please provide a link?

     

    Thanks.

     

    Bill

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 10:51 AM   in reply to whsprague

    Go back one level to the main Premiere Elements page... and look on the right side

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 7:25 PM   in reply to John T Smith

    I found it.  Thanks!  I had never "merged" folders before and I started with CPM and later learned DOS.  The install process of the "Missing Presets" is anything but ordinary.  That said, they are now part of my PE10 preset choices.  I am curious, and looking forward to finding out,  if there is significant advantage over what Adobe supplied in the first place. 

     

    Bill

     
    |
    Mark as:

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points