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Snapshot, Virtual Copies and Metadata

Mar 11, 2012 7:31 AM

Is there any way to force Snapshots and Virtual Copies to read metadata from the original raw file after an update of the same?

I had to change the lens name on some Leica M9 files to correct an operator (me) error, and I did it by editing the exif data with an exif editor and then forcing LR4 to read the metadata from the file. This worked well for everithing but the snapshots and the virtual copies on which the metadata remain as originally registered, unchanged.

Ario

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2012 9:08 PM   in reply to ario arioldi

    I have done the same as you (for updataing old manual focus lens info).  The solution is to:

     

    1. In the Develop module, create a snapshot of the settings for the virtual copy (also make note of the copy name if one exists under the Metadata Panel).
    2. Delete the virtual copy with incorrect EXIF info.
    3. Create a new virtual copy from master image.
    4. Apply the snapshot you just created to thenew virtual copy, and set the copy name back to original value, if necessary.

     

    The new virtual copy should have the updated EXIF info in it.  A side note - I make it a habit to always create a snapshot for virtual copies and explicitly saving the metadata to the file, so that if I ever need to reimport the image, all the settings will be included (if it's not saved, the virutal copy info in LR exists only in the catalog, and not with the image file).

     

    This seems like a bug in Lightroom that virtual copies don't get updated when the EXIF info of the master photo does.

     

    Also (somewhat related), why can't you save the metadata to a file (⌘S) when a virtual copy is selected?  That can only be done on master images.

     

    Brian

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2012 11:13 PM   in reply to ario arioldi

    First save your adjustments, keywords, and other LR metadata back to the files using Mac: Cmd S / PC: Ctrl S.

     

    Then you can use Metadata > Read Metadata from files, and LR will re-import its metadata plus your Exif changes.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2012 10:14 AM   in reply to john beardsworth

    johnbeardy wrote:

     

    First save your adjustments, keywords, and other LR metadata back to the files using Mac: Cmd S / PC: Ctrl S.

     

    Then you can use Metadata > Read Metadata from files, and LR will re-import its metadata plus your Exif changes.

    Not possible for a virtual copy, unfortunately.

     

    Workaround for virtual copy: go to the master image and write out the settings to file. Alter lens metadata externally (exiftool) and read them back in again. Make a new snapshot to preserve this up-to-date image state. Then sync or copy-paste all settings from the virtual copy, overwriting the master image. Delete (remove) the virtual copy entirely. Make a new virtual copy from the master image - this will inherit the updated lens settings plus the other metadata setting just transferred. Then on the master image, bring back the snapshot to restore its own most up-to-date edits.

     

    For an image that contains multiple snapshots: AFAIK it should be sufficient to just write out to file, modify (exiftool) and read back in the current state of the image.

     

    Later recalling a previously saved snapshot should not (afaik) also revert the lens details held in the Catalog, since those fall outside the scope of the LR metadata entries which jointly make up a snapshot. They are left alone by LR, which treats them as persisting except when they get re-imported as a side-effect of physically reading in all metadata from an external file.

     
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  • Andrew Rodney
    1,387 posts
    Apr 16, 2009
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    Jul 27, 2012 10:42 AM   in reply to richardplondon

    richardplondon wrote:

    Workaround for virtual copy: go to the master image and write out the settings to file.

    What about just saving the VC as a DNG (making a ‘real’ document) then updating (copy) original settings? Of course, it isn’t a VC any more. Which might be a good thing, disk usage not withstanding.

     
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  • Andrew Rodney
    1,387 posts
    Apr 16, 2009
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    Jul 27, 2012 11:09 AM   in reply to ario arioldi

    ario arioldi wrote:

     

    The problem I have with the DNG's is the fast growing size of the back-up for any minor adjustement on the metadata.

    Understood. I do too, to a degree. If I have a hero VC, I usually build out a DNG because I don’t fully trust that important data being in a proprietary database. I’m wondering if saving out the VC as DNG would be a bit easier than dealing with the suggestion Richard had in terms of having to use exiftool.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2012 2:13 PM   in reply to Andrew Rodney

    Andrew Rodney wrote:

     

    What about just saving the VC as a DNG (making a ‘real’ document) then updating (copy) original settings? Of course, it isn’t a VC any more. Which might be a good thing, disk usage not withstanding.

    Could do, but one would otherwise not have any reason to do this - if for example, the VC could be "read" and refreshed from the original file, in the same way as the master file can be. Also by creating two separate Raw files instead of one, you then have two to alter externally using exiftool, instead of one, in this particular case - as well as two to store of course.

     

    Maybe the more radical answer, is to propose some way to control show-through of settings from a master file, as a continuing dependent link, into a VC - instead of having the two be completely independent from the start. Then apart from the defined respects in which these two are to differ, updating one would be to update the other - as is already the case when multiple VCs all share in the outcome of external editing, by virtue of referring to the content of the same underlying TIFF file.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2012 3:23 PM   in reply to Andrew Rodney

    Andrew Rodney wrote:

    I’m wondering if saving out the VC as DNG would be a bit easier than dealing with the suggestion Richard had in terms of having to use exiftool.

    I don't see any other way, at present, to alter those metadata entries which LR itself does not offer a way to alter.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2012 12:30 PM   in reply to richardplondon

    I suspect you can solve this by setting the copy as the master, then saving and reading the metadata again.

     

    So, after you've saved metadata to the master, read in the metadata - so your master has its new EXIF and its snapshots. Then select the VC and choose Photo > Set Copy as Master. Repeat the process - save its metadata back to the file, then read the metadata in again.

     

    Doesn't that do the job?

     

    John

     
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    Jul 28, 2012 12:57 PM   in reply to john beardsworth

    johnbeardy wrote:

     

    I suspect you can solve this by setting the copy as the master, then saving and reading the metadata again. So after you've saved metadata to the master, read the metadata in. Then select the VC and Save Copy as Master. Save its metadata back to the file, then read it in again.

    Excellent alternative: I don't know yet whether the external metadata changes would have to happen once or twice. I keep forgetting about this feature - perhaps because it only shows up in Library, not in Develop.

     

    Incidentally, like the OP I have been playing around with Lens ID and descriptions recently - largely due to using some decades-old but still lovely, legacy K-mount lenses. I discovered a LR plugin which invokes exiftool to do this job, called "LensTagger", by Dirk Essl. One wrinkle: this utility works fine for DNG and for JPG, but does not seem to allow for modifying a separate sidecar .XMP for a proprietary Raw (LR treats the sidecar as primary in that case, so any changes made to the main file metadata are not even seen). It is possible to override the exiftool "script" that is presented, to redirect it toward that .XMP file instead (editing the file extension); though this has to be done afresh each time the plugin is used. The user still needs to separately ensure the metadata is written and read back in; this plugin just manages the external alterations.

     
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