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Prelude Help | Logging movie clips

Jun 19, 2012 5:21 AM

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 5:36 AM   in reply to Community Help

    How about an option to double-click on the"Speech Transcription" marker and have it transcribe in the background?

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 1:35 AM   in reply to Community Help

    It would be good to get an explanation about how to use a Speech Transcription marker to edit speech-to-text content created in software such as Adobe Premiere Pro, or to manually add such content.

    Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 1, 2012 9:39 AM   in reply to Sengstack

    Hi Jeff,

     

    If you do a speech to text analysis in Premiere Pro/AME the resulting text is displayed in the Analysis Text section of Premiere Pro's Metadata panel. When you click on words in the transcription the source monitor CTI moves to that word.

     

    If that clip is ingested and opened in Prelude you will see the Speech Transcription displayed as markers across the clip. You can select individual markers to edit the text if needed.

     

    Another approach is to do some rough marking of the clip directly in Prelude using Speech Transcription markers. For example while logging an interview you could indentify key phrases using a ST marker, the accuracy and detail you enter would be up to you. When the saved clip is opened in Premiere Pro the ST markers you added will appear in the same Analysis Text area of the metadata panel and can help you quickly locate and use those key bits you identified.

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 10:22 AM   in reply to Wes Plate

    Hi Wes,

     

    This is helpful but there are missing pieces of functionality for me:

     

    1) The marker does not show up in the clip in its P Pro Sequence so there is no visual cue that an ST-marker was added to the clip in Prelude. Whereas other markers do show up in the clip.

     

    2) When I select the ST-marked clip in Premiere (either in the Project panel or in a Sequence) and go to the Analysis Text section of the Metadata panel, I cannot click on a word to then jump to that word in the clip or even jump to the marker's in or out point. Clicking the ST-marker text selects the entire text string.

     

    3) If I click Analyze, P Pro does not use the ST-marker text to do the analysis. So, the resulting text is the same with or without the presence of a Prelude ST-marker. As a side note, after saving the P Pro project the analysis shows up in Prelude as a collection of ST markers, one for each word with a probability associated with each marker. In addition, the original ST marker goes away.

     

    In any event, with all the above in mind, I do not see the value or purpose to adding an ST-marker to a clip in Prelude.

     

    Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 1, 2012 11:18 AM   in reply to Sengstack

    1. Correct. The way Premiere Pro displays Speech Transcription is in the Analysis Text section of the Metadata panel.

     

    2. The text string inside the ST marker is what gets highlighted, which is why you'll notice that PPro/AME-created ST markers contain single words. So if you manually create your own ST marker you would need to decide how "detailed" you want to make it. A single marker containing an entire sentence will move PPro's CTI to the beginning of that sentence, not to words in the middle of it. BTW, the way I have used this and seen this work is to have the clip open in the source monitor and the metadata panel moved so as to not share the same pane as the source viewer.

     

    3. As you say, AME won't use existing ST markers. You can improve the Speech to Text analysis by attaching a text file containing a transcription of the clip as described here.

     

    There is room for improvement in this area. We'd love your suggestions at http://adobe.com/go/wish

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 12:27 PM   in reply to Wes Plate

    Hi Wes,

     

    Thanks for the clarification. My conclusion based on your response is that the Prelude ST marker is a feature in search of a purpose. At this point, I think the Comment marker serves the same or similar functionality.

     

    The exception might be jumping to a point in a clip by clicking on its ST-marker text in the Metadata panel. Is it possible to do something similar with Comment markers? Perhaps a SEARCH function might do the trick...but I tried searching in the Project panel and the Metadata panel for text in Comment and Web Link markers and came up empty-handed.

     

    As a follow-up to this...I have been adding ST markers as well as other markers to a number of clips in Prelude. The ST markers are not showing up in P Pro's Metadata panel. I save my Prelude project, save the individual files (with markers added), save the rough cuts and save the P Pro project...but no luck.

     

    I just checked the Events list and there is a series of "Project write XMP to disk failed" messages. This then seems to indicate that something went wrong along the way. But I don't know why this would happen. 

     

    Sorry about the additional edits...but I closed and opened Prelude and P Pro and the ST-markers are now showing up in the P Pro Metadata panel.

     

    Jeff

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 1:00 PM   in reply to Community Help

    Help states: "The Re: Prelude Help | Logging movie clips logging information and the added metadata are captured in an XMP file. For some formats such as QuickTime (.mov) the XMP information is written into the media file."

     

    1) Can someone on the Prelude team give more specifics as to which formats use sidecar XMP files versus storing Marker information within clips?

     

    2) Can non-Adobe products display the Prelude Marker metadata?

     

    3) Is there a way to view the Prelude Marker metadata if it's stored in a media file? I believe Prelude Marker information does not show up in the "static" metadata.

     

    4) I added Prelude markers to an MTS file and viewed its associated XMP file using a text editor (the XMP file was already present because I used that MTS file in P Pro which automatically writes an XMP ID file upon import). I do not see any new information added to that file.

     

    Jeff

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 2:08 PM   in reply to Sengstack

    Jeff,

    1. Formats that support embedding include AVI, WMV, ASF, SWF, FLV, MP4 (though some MP4 codecs like GoPro are not currently supported) and MOV. MXF and MPEG-based formats will use sidecars.

     

    2. Since Prelude writes the metadata as XMP any XMP-supporting application should be able to read the metadata. You can also export FCP7 XML from Prelude (select clips, choose File>Export, then specify Final Cut Pro XML as the type), Prelude's markers are converted to FCP7 markers.

     

    3. I'm not sure I know what you're asking. If you open a clip in Prelude or Premiere Pro you should see the markers you added and any static metadata will appear in the Metadata panel.

     

    4. I tried the same thing, I ingested a file that created an XMP sidecar. I added a Comment marker and saved the clip and opened the XMP file in a text editor (I heart TextWrangler) and I see the comment in there as shown in this screenshot. Maybe you didn't save after adding your marker? BTW, if you edit static metadata the change is applied immediately after editing, you don't need to save.

    ThisIsMyComment.png

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 7:48 PM   in reply to Wes Plate

    Hi Wes,

     

    Thanks for your further clarification.

     

    Regarding point 2. I was asking if non-Adobe products can display the marker metadata. I understand that Prelude and P Pro will display the markers. But do Prelude/P Pro markers show up in Vegas Video or FCP if you import those files directly from the Prelude ingest/transfer folder?

     

    Do Prelude markers show up in P Pro only if you send the media files from Prelude or open a project exported from Prelude, as opposed to importing media files from the folder into which they were ingested/transferred by Prelude? From what I've seen, if you import media files into P Pro from the ingest/transfer folder, the only marker metadata that comes with that imported file is the Speech Transcription marker text. Comment and other markers do not show up in P Pro.

     

    Are some Prelude marker metadata stored in the Prelude project file?

     

    Regarding point 3. I know I can view XMP file data using a text editor. But I'm wondering how to view Prelude marker data embedded within a media file. No text editor I know of can extract XMP data or Prelude marker data from a media file. I know I can view embedded XMP metadata in Bridge, P Pro and Prelude. And as you've explained, if I export a Prelude project as a Final Cut Pro XML file, Prelude markers are converted to FCP markers. But Prelude markers are not "static" metadata so they don't show up in the standard Metadata panel (except for the Speech Transcription marker text). So, is there a way to view that information outside of Adobe video editing products?

     

    Regarding point 4. My mistake was looking at the XMP file in the original MTS file location, not in the folder to which it was transferred by Prelude. In fact, there is an XMP file in the transfer folder with the newly created Prelude marker data in it. Thank you for clearing that up.

     

    Jeff

     
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    Aug 2, 2012 11:31 AM   in reply to Sengstack

    The XMP markers created by Pr/Pl will not appear directly in Vegas or FCP. If those apps had XMP support then the markers would.

     

    The markers you add in Prelude should appear in Premiere Pro if you import the clip with the saved markers directly into Premiere Pro, I just tried it again to verify. You don't HAVE to use Send to Premiere Pro.

     

    Marker metadata is not stored in the .plproj project file, it is stored in XMP either embedded or in sidecar. The Prelude project file is actually rather simple, it is mostly just a list of the assets.

     

    It is possible to view the XMP blob embedded in a QuickTime movie, however editing the file in something like a text editor can corrupt your media. So instead view embedded XMP using an application that can read XMP. What are you trying to achieve? BTW, if you're interested in getting the XMP that is embedded into an asset OUT into its own separate XMP file, open that clip in Prelude then choose File>Save Metadata As...

     
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    Aug 3, 2012 12:40 AM   in reply to Wes Plate

    Thanks Wes.

    As to what I was trying to achieve in terms of viewing Marker metadata...I just wanted to find some way to see how Prelude handled marker metadata for media files that cannot work with XMP sidecar files.

    Jeff

     
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    Aug 9, 2012 6:31 PM   in reply to Wes Plate

    Wes Plate wrote:

     

    Jeff,

    1. Formats that support embedding include AVI, WMV, ASF, SWF, FLV, MP4 (though some MP4 codecs like GoPro are not currently supported) and MOV. MXF and MPEG-based formats will use sidecars.

     

     

    Hi Wes,

     

    I just tried to add markers to MP4 files transcoded by Prelude using the H.264 format with the HD 720p 23.976 preset. They apparently were saved with the changes (there was no obvious indication they weren't properly saved) but I later I noticed the red 'X' in the lower right corner of the workspace. Opening the Events dialog box, I see that "Project write XMP to disk failed."

     

    Do you know why that is the case? Is there an H.264 setting I can select such that I can add markers to the resulting transcoded files?

     

    Jeff

     
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    Aug 10, 2012 8:18 AM   in reply to Sengstack

    Hi Jeff. I just tried what you describe and I don't have the same problem. I ingested a clip and transcoded to H.264>HD 720p 23.976 and then opened the clip and added subclip and comment markers. No error appeared in the events panel after saving.

     

    I will ask our QE team to contact you to see if they can help identify where things are going wrong.

     
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    Aug 10, 2012 9:52 AM   in reply to Wes Plate

    Wes Plate wrote:

     

    I will ask our QE team to contact you to see if they can help identify where things are going wrong.

    OK

     
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    Aug 10, 2012 10:25 AM   in reply to Wes Plate

    Wes Plate wrote:

     

    Hi Jeff. I just tried what you describe and I don't have the same problem. I ingested a clip and transcoded to H.264>HD 720p 23.976 and then opened the clip and added subclip and comment markers. No error appeared in the events panel after saving.

    Hi Wes,

     

    I just re-did it as well and the markers worked this time. I did not do anything differently as far as I can tell. If this comes up again, I'll let you know.

     

    Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 21, 2013 10:42 PM   in reply to Community Help

    I"m still not clear on how to mark in and out points, I know it is I and O for keyboard shortcut but nothing happens when I'm previewing a clip and I press I or O. What am I doing wrong?

     

     
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    Jun 22, 2013 12:08 AM   in reply to Ken Nielsen

    Hi –

     

    You will want to make sure the Markers panel is open. You should see 6 marker types listed in a column with the numbers 1 through 6 next to them. Each number represents the keyboard shortcut you can use to insert that marker type.  For example, to create a subclip marker you can hit the ‘1’ key. When you do this you will see a new BLUE marker appear in the Timeline and in the Marker List panels (blue is the default assigned color – you can change the color as well as the default duration in the preferences).

     

    When a marker is first added, you will also see under the Timeline’s Tab (top left corner of the panel) a Text Edit box open up asking for the NAME of the subclip. This is our Head Up Display (HUD) and allows you to quickly name the subclip if you wish. You can dismiss this control by hitting ENTER. Once dismissed, hitting the ‘O’ key will set the OUT POINT for the marker you just added. Note that when you added the marker it was given an OUT POINT already – by default it will set itself equal to the end of your clip. Hitting ‘O’ while that marker is still selected will set the OUT POINT to where ever the current Player Position is located. You can also grab the IN or OUT Point handles of the marker and adjust them by dragging.

     

    Let me know if you have additional questions.

     

    Regards,

    Michael

     
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    Jun 22, 2013 12:35 PM   in reply to michaelgoshey

    This is important to me, and thanks michaelgoshey. So it's not an "I' but a marker type "1" that distigueshes the subclip beginning. I take it then that I can assign more than one subclip to a clip. I'll give all of this a try and still wondering if this is going to be a better workflow than simply going at it in Permiere Pro. As it is now, Permiere Pro gets the job done quickly but I'm thinking that Prelude was developed with something special in mind that will help increase the efficiency of previewing and marking clips. For a single project, I'm not sure that just working in Premiere Pro isn't just as efficient.

     
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    Jun 23, 2013 4:44 AM   in reply to Ken Nielsen

    Hi Ken -

     

    Yes, Prelude was designed to be a logging application from the beginning. We have implemented several special workflows to deliver on that goal. You can add multiple markers to clips (you can add many subclip markers, comments markers, etc).  You can then use these markers to build rough cuts and send into Premiere Pro.

     

    In addition to quickly adding markers all from a nice keyboard driven workflow in Prelude, you can then search and filter your media based on those markers and the descriptions and names you give them. This will provide a robust model for organizing your clips quickly. Sending your results into Pr is then a click away.

     

    There is a nice video about Prelude up on Adobe TV that shows some of the core organizational and marker features. This video was done in Prelude CS6 instead of the new CC version, but these capabilities around markers are still valid in CC as well.

     

    http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-prelude-cc/organizing-projects-wprelud e/

     

    Hope this helps!

     

    Michael

     
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