Hello,
I have been dealing with an issue involving the way InDesign exports to PDF. In images and boxes drawn in InDesign the black value is being reduced to 95% while the text remains full black. I thought it was a printer issue but I looked more carefully at the PDF and sure enough it's in the image I outputted to PDF format. How would it be possible that the blacks in images and drawn boxes could loose the 100% black but not the text? Do I have a bad install or just a setting misplaced?
I am running CS5.5 with all the latest updates on a brand new Mac Book Pro.
Thanks,
Brett
Everyhting in the file is CMYK or Greyscale, the problem doesn't seem to care. The real mystery to me is that the drawn object and images appear correctly in InDesign but not in the PDF version. I am using the Highest Print settings without any downsampling or compression. The file size is coming out to 4 or 5 mb for a two sided business card (which is pretty big) but the shades are still off. I remeasured it in Photoshop and 100% CMYK is rendering to about 92% in the PDF version.
Still a mystery.
Brett
"Highest Print" settings does not correspond to any of the standard presets. I need to know exactly what is used, if one of the regular presets, or what you have in the Output pane of the export dialog.
What do you see in the file if you roll over the black objects that are output at 95% if you open the Separations Preview in ID?
I am using High Quality Print in the Export setting, in the Output pane I have No Color Conversion selected and Include Source Profiles. When I check the individual area with the Seperation Preview I get 100% black on the problem areas. I have the color set to the Black preset swatch from the swatches pull down menu. By all outward indications I have it set for black, it just will not send black to the PDF.
The left side border is supposed to 100% black but the PDF render has it off. This time the CMYK read 70,68,64,74 on the section in question and on the text. To be honest I never sampled the text to be asolutley sure it was 100% I just went on looks. So now I have a larger issue.
Even the supposed black section of the color scale at the top, something generated by InDesign, is not reading true black, it reads 75,68,67,90.
Any help in figuring this out would be great.
Brett
Have you t4rashed your prefs? see Replace Your Preferences
I've tried to replicate the fault here and the only way i can come close to doing this is: creating a new WEB document (rather than print document) and then preparing PDFs. Can't imagine something like this being overlooked, but that's the only way.
Is the OP able to package up the file using the package option from the file menu, and zip those files (plus a PDF made using the indesign file) and upload it somewhere... maybe using yousendit or something and then posting that yousendit link? We'd need to see what's being done because there's no way that artwork with vectors as taken in the OP's screengrab should produce a 5mb PDF.
Sorry it took so long, got tied up yesterday. Here is the sample file with the PDF compressed on a yousendit link. It is just under 5mb and I checked and the intent of the file is set to print.
Go here to download the file:
I have several other working on the problem now and they are all scratching their heads.
Thanks,
Brett
I have been in contact with my printer who opened the same sample file using her computer and sees the same PDF issue I have. They also cannot get the PDF to print the proper color. This whole issue started because they printed 1000 business cards and the black bar on the left printed up dark grey. I checked and my suite is completely up to date as is the printer's suite. We both subscribe to the Adobe packages, they have the design premium on a Mac running 10.6.8 and I hyave the Master Suite on the same OS. I was going to upgrade to Lion this weekend but if this issue persists I may not want to.
I also looked back at files created with my older MacBook running 10.5.8 with CS5 and the same issue occured on several documents that I am now going to need to rework for this same client. What started as a curiousity is going to cost me time/money because I can't get a good idea of the problem. A work around has been to build PNG image files in PS to replace the objects that are drawn but at this point I may just need to switch to PS and do my layout work there (not my favorite option).
I am off to a photo shoot for the rest of the day but if anyone else can reproduce this issue on their machine please let me know.
Brett
I think I figured out what's going on.
You mentioned earlier that you are including ALL profiles. When you do this instead of choosing Tagged Source Profiles Acrobat is changing the numbers it displays in output preview depending on the simulation profile. If the simulation profile (and the output profile from Acrobat matches the document profile in ID you should see your 100% k.
Everything on page 1 of your posted PDF is on the black plate, so if you or your printer are printing to Composite Gray there will be a conversion from CMYK (0|0|0|100) to grayscale, which would typically get you 92% black if SWOP CMYK is the source. You need to print the black plate separation or composite CMYK to output the black values unchanged.
The conversion from 100% black to 92% black indicates there's a conversion to grayscale happening somewhere. It would be impossible to convert 0|0|0|100 CMYK to 0|0|0|92 CMYK when converting from one CMYK profile to another—there would always be CMY in the mix. If you set your PS Color Settings to the default and open the PDF with Grayscale set as the mode, the black converts to 93%
I just now found a setting that fixed this for me.
Edit -> Transparency Blend Space
The default setting was "Document CMYK". Changing it to "Document RGB" solved the problem for me.
Beware the file I'm working on is strictly a black and white (1-bit) TIFF with some text added. Your results may vary!
Here is my solution:
After trying every conceivable combination of settings, I decided there was probably something wrong with the way I imported the original image. I had imported it from a PDF, and perhaps that is where the bug lies with InDesign. Luckily, I still had a copy of the original TIFF from before it was a PDF. I re-imported the image into the indd file and then changed the following settings:
Edit -> Transparency Blend Space -> Document RGB
File -> Export -> Output
Color Conversion -> Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers)
Destination -> sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Profile Inclusion Policy -> Don't Include Profiles
File -> Export -> Output
Color Conversion -> Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers)
Destination -> sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Profile Inclusion Policy -> Don't Include Profiles
The OP's job was printing on an offset press. You've converted your PDF to all sRGB, so if it's output to separations any black objects would print as 4-color not 100% black.
It's too bad this is such a convoluted process.
I don't see any problem with 1-bit black or text black with a CMYK Transparency Blend Space, either in InDesign's Separation Preview or in Acrobat's Output Preview after exporting via the PDF/X-4 preset. In all cases output reads as 0|0|0|100 CMYK, which is what you would want and expect going to press
A placed all black 1-bit psd in ID
Exported to PDF/X-4
Are you outputting separations or to a composite printer? If composite is your Print>Output>Color, Composite Gray or Composite CMYK?
Okay, I realize now that we are not talking about the same color.
Rob Day is talking about some kind of press preview, whereas I am getting grey output on screen even if I try to use the PDF/X-4 preset. Since the sRGB destination profile is unavailable in PDF/X-4, I have to use the ROMM-RGB profile as a workaround in that case. This seems no less confusing than my previous workaround.
Rob Day is talking about some kind of press preview, whereas I am getting grey output on screen even if I try to use the PDF/X-4 preset.
The OP's document is going to press—the destination is CMYK.
If you are working for screen then set your document's intent as Web or Digital Publishing (File>Document Setup). In that case the [Black] swatch, which by default is assigned to your placed 1-bit image, will be 0|0|0 black RGB and will stay that way on export to PDF. If you export to an RGB or Unchanged Color destination (PDF/X-4) the RGB black will be unchanged
Correction: Actually if I go all the way back to a new document with Intent set to Digital Publishing and then place the TIFF again, then it will export correctly! Hooray!
On the other hand, changing Intent from File -> Document Setup does not work as described on the existing file(s).
So I have a somewhat better work around now, thank you Rob Day.
On the other hand, changing Intent from File -> Document Setup does not work as described on the existing file(s).
It sounds like your 1-bit images are not assigned the default black swatch [Black]. When you switch the intent to Web or Digital Publishing the default black swatch is converted to 0|0|0 RGB. A 0|0|0|100 black CMYK swatch you made would not necessarily convert to 0|0|0.
If your 1-bit images are colored with a swatch other than [Black] open its swatch and change it to 0|0|0 RGB.
As I said earlier, the export does work with new files.
I invested an extraordinary amount of time fiddling with different settings and I've found that you should be able to replicate a problem with the Document Setup method by first setting the Transparency Blend Space to Document RGB, which I had done to my files as previously described. Following that, a change of the Intent setting from Print to Web still results in greys instead of blacks at export. For some reason, InDesign exports 1-bit images in a 4-channel CMYK format after that particular combination of settings.
Your solution does work after I add another step:
1. Open the document that has the image placed in it.
2. Reset the Transparency Blend Space setting to Document CMYK.
3. Change the Intent setting to Web or Digital Publishing.
4. Export to PDF.
For some reason, InDesign exports 1-bit images in a 4-channel CMYK format after that particular combination of settings.
A 1-bit image takes on whatever color is assigned to it, so if you select the image and choose any RGB swatch its source color will be rgb on export—the color doesn't have to be default CMYK black.
Not sure why the default black swatch stays CMYK when the blend space is RGB and you change the document intent to Web.
The blackness of a 0|0|0|100 CMYK object is dependent on the document's CMYK profile—US Sheetfed Uncoated shows black as gray because that's what happens on press—60|50|50|100 is blacker than 0|0|0|100.
Some older profiles don't make the distinction, so if you set the assigned document CMYK profile to Photoshop Default CMYK and export to an RGB destination the default black swatch will convert to 0|0|0 RGB.
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