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Curt Pair
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Audio "disappears" in Pr CS6

Jun 13, 2012 10:55 AM

Tags: #no #after #effects #pro #audio #premiere #of #ae #loss #cs6 #pr

I'm having a tremendous amount of trouble with a particular project in CS 6.

 

PC, Win 7 Ultimate

Nvidia 4000

32GB Ram

Red Rocket Card

CS6 Prod Premium

 

Sony MXF 4:2:0, 35Mbps files at 29.97p.

 

I have a project, that has about 20 clips in it.  I edited the piece, then pushed the video into After Effects to do "treatments" brought them back and want to make an output. 

 

However, when I play the timeline back, audio seems to disappear!  By that I mean, if you open the audio track, there are waveforms... however, when playing "over" that clip, no audio is heard! 

 

Take a look at the image:

Mitchwood.PNG

 

 

I've been experimenting with various work-arounds... I've used the "match frame" to find the exact spot in the source monitor... then I choose "repalce clip with source monitor" and the audio is replaced and plays... The trouble is when I fix one clip, another pops up.

 

Even wilder:  Some clips play a portion and then the audio stops suddenly in the middle of the clip!

 

I've shut down Pr and fired it back up.... that works sometimes... not always.

 

I've rebooted... works sometimes, not always...

 

Now the system is hanging up and crashing! 

 

I'm trying to get the project out!  I have the client in the room, and this is not looking good!  "Why don't you just use Final Cut Pro like everyone else?" 

 

I'm looking for answers and solutions.

 

Thanks,

 

Curt

 

Worth noting:  I had both CS6 and CS5.5 installed on the system when this project originated... I had so many system crashes, I decided to remove BOTH last weekend, run a registry cleaner and then reinstall CS6.  That seemed to clear up many issues, but not the dropping of the audio.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 13, 2012 1:00 PM   in reply to Curt Pair

    Curt,

     

    I've experienced the same thing.  I have a multi-camera sequence of spanned video clips (MXF format) with two video tracks, four mono audio tracks (each camera shoots L-R in mono, so two audio tracks per video) and a fifth stereo audio track for ambient audio.  I cannot re-recrate it on demand yet, but the audio of one of video tracks will just disappear as you describe.  I can see the wave form, but nothing plays.  I can scrub to the next clip and the audio returns, so it is just a clip.  I have not seen it drop out in the middle of a clip. 

     

    I can close PPr and re-open it, and all the audio is back.  I think it may have something to do with the media cache, but I'm under deadline and I don't have the time to experiment right now.  I have not had any issues with the audio during the multi-camera edit or exporting the video (knock on wood).

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 2:28 PM   in reply to DaveTrayers

    Hi Dave,

     

    I just talked with Curt and he appears to have fixed the issue by trashing his prefs and the PluginCache. Give it a try and see if it fixes the problem for you too. Hold down the Shift key and the Alt key (Windows) or the Shift key and Option key (Mac) and then lauch Premiere Pro. Holding down the Shift on launch deletes the PluginCache. Holding down the Alt/Option key on launch deletes the prefs.

     

    If this does/doesn't work be sure to post back here.

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 5:49 PM   in reply to Curt Pair

    I'll give it a try, but right now I'm in the middle of a big project and PPr is behaving nicely.  Once it's finished in a few days I'll be ready to start another and I'll follow the above and see if happens again.

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 7:49 PM   in reply to Curt Pair

    Yes. Exactly. Thanks Curt. I left out a subtle yet very important step. Thanks for the clarification.

     
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    Jun 15, 2012 1:38 AM   in reply to Mitch W

    Hello all

         I can confirm that there is a serious issue with .MXF files (Sony MXF XDCAM @25Mbps here). I've metioned it in another thread but since this is in topic i'll re-post my experiences. In CS5 there was no problem importing MXF files. No matter the duration the file imported in a snap. Now in CS6 it takes ages to import (not mentioning peak generation). This also happens when I import MXF in Media Encoder.

         As for the audio the problem is there... Randomly it eliminates the sound while the waveform is there. Restarting PP usually does the trick. If this doesn't work, I delete the Media cache (and have to wait to re-conform). Sometimes while all seems (and sounds) ok the exported file has no audio on the MXF portion of the edit...

         Please fix it as fast as possible since we rely on PP for our news edit and this issue is a major drawback in our work.

         I'm seriously considering in re-installing CS5.

     
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    Jun 16, 2012 9:42 PM   in reply to Mitch W

    Mitch,


    I tried your methord and the problem still occours. Any Ideas?

     

    Thanks.

     
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    Jun 18, 2012 11:51 AM   in reply to Chathuranga Lasiru

    Hi Chathuranga,

     

    Have you tried deleting the Media Cache files? You can surgically delete the files for the specific clip by navigating the the Media Cache folder and searching them out individually... or you can just delete the entire folder and let them all rebuild.

     
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    Jun 29, 2012 11:42 AM   in reply to Curt Pair

    Excume by my english. I am brazilian. I have the same problem. I did all the solutions presents in this forum but the problem didn't stop. I will like that adobe employees resolve this. In cs5.5 this problem didn't occurs.

     
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    Jun 29, 2012 12:06 PM   in reply to alexandrefriedrich

    Yes, I'm still having the problem too.  I just started a new project and I tried the suggestions above with no joy.  I tried to interpret the two mono clips as one stereo and it still happens.  Tried dumping preferences and cache, no luck.  I seems to be related somewhat to multi-tasking on my computer, but I can't prove it.  It just seems that if I'm doing something else (like printing DVD's) while I'm editing, I'll lose the audio when I switch to the second application and switch back.  But I'm not sure.

     

    I thought it was because the source MXF files are on a third drive on my system and it was going to sleep, but then I think I would also lose the video too, as if the media is offline.  I *never* lose video, just audio.

     

    I've resorted to rendering and replacing the audio on my edited timeline after I make all my cuts.  But before I run it, I always reboot and just run the render and replace before anything else.  I then examine the resulting WAV file in the source monitor to see if all the audio is there.  A couple of times when I tried before I did the reboot step, I would see dead people sections of the waveform.  Trash it and try again.

     

    But once I have a good rendered WAV file for the audio, then there's no problem.  I'm convinced it's related to the MXF file.  My timeline typically consists of two camera tracks with audio and a third audio track from a digital recorder which is WAV format.  I will lose one or both of the camera audio from time to time, but never the audio from the digital recorder.

     
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    Jun 29, 2012 12:36 PM   in reply to Curt Pair

    I also installed two external sound cards to test whether the problem is hardware, but problem continued. Interesting that i have files on timeline .mov .mp3 .wav and these don't have problem. Only audio mxf files recordeds with sony pmwf3 that exports yours files in mxf op1 disappears.

     
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    Jul 12, 2012 8:37 AM   in reply to Curt Pair

    Any updates on the issue? We've tried every workaround possible. But the problem isn't stable. Meaning opening a project might cause the audio issue and re-opening might bring back the audio... or might not...

    My guess is that there's something wrong with the MXF importer. Long import times are a symptom too.

     
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    Jul 12, 2012 11:18 AM   in reply to Curt Pair

    Yes, PLEASE FIX THIS

    Same problem as the OP here, totally different system...my specs:

     

    MAC (mid 2010) OSX 10.7.4

    2x2.93 6-Core Intel Xeon

    NVIDIA Quadro 4000 (only common element)

    24 GB RAM

    Using XDCAM HD clips

     

    I've done the make a .aif file after clips are editied, which is a sad solution for me as clients always change their minds. It seems that PR is just not handling the MXF audio correctly. Of the several issues I am having with PR this is the one causing me to think "deal breaker"...the randomness of how this happens makes it impossible to replicate other than saying just edit some MXF clips and it will happen.

    I am currently using some clips for a new project (not giving up yet) that I used "import" from my PDW U1 instead of "export"...which puts the clips in a mov wrapper and the audio is now lpcm...after a couple of hours of editng it is still working with only one odd audio incident in the source monitor, which is a different glitch.

    I just hope the engineers are working to fix this (and other problems), and not push out CS7...PR could be a wonderful editor IF it could be stable!!

     
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    Jul 13, 2012 11:10 AM   in reply to Curt Pair

    Curt,

     

    Im convinced that this is a bug in CS6. The issue I am having is more or less identical to yours: Im using XDCAM HD422 and IMX Pal 25P footage. In both cases, some clips will randomly and apparantly arbitrarily stop playing back, despite as you point out, still showing as online and with waveforms. The files continue to be absent when exporting the timeline. Restarting Premiere will temporarily restore the audio from the files, but changing focus to another application seems to be enough to trigger the issue again. It also spontaneously reoccurs after a nonspecific/inconsistent interval.

     

    Considering the fact that the MXF codec was apparantly missing or incompletely implemented in the first release of CS6, logic would seem to suggest that this problem is related. I havent tried the workaround of deleting the conformed audio, but I certainly will.

     

    @Kostas: Im surprised to read your MXF file imports now appear slower. My situation is exactly the reverse; importing is easily 4x as fast as in CS5.5, and the conforms do their business quietly in the background while still allowing me to work. A big improvement. Now if they'd only stop disappearing

     
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    Jul 13, 2012 11:19 AM   in reply to thirdeyeamsterdam

    Adobe has now been able to reproduce the issue (with the help of some of you here on the forum - thank you very much!) and is working on a fix. You aren't crazy. It is an Adobe issue. Don't bother deleting the conformed audio files, it won't help in this case.

     

    @thirdeyeamsterdam - what did you mean when you said the MXF codec was apparently missing or incompletely implemented in the first release of CS6?

     
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    Jul 13, 2012 11:31 AM   in reply to thirdeyeamsterdam

    Importing large MXF files (over 5GB) takes geometrically longer times than small files. With CS5 it took 10 sec (max) to import a 12GB file, now with CS6 it takes about 15mins!! Especially in Media Encoder.

     
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    Jul 13, 2012 12:38 PM   in reply to Mitch W

    Mitch,

     

    Thank you for that update. Many will be happy, when the work is done on this problem.

     

    Appreciated,

     

    Hunt

     
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    Jul 17, 2012 2:07 AM   in reply to Mitch W

    Mitch, when I first installed CS6, I was able to import MXF HD into Premiere and AE, but not export as MXF OP1a. The codec was simply not listed in the pull down, and the media encoder didnt recognise the file type either and refused to allow it to be imported to the queue.

    I assumed this was an issue addressed by the update which was released soon after. Either way - apart from the audio issue obviously - it now works.

     
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    Jul 17, 2012 2:24 AM   in reply to Kostas Arvanitidis

    Kostas, im not seeing that at all. In fact the size of the file seems to have zero effect on the time taken to import into the media encoder. Ive just done a quick test with 3 MXF files of 500MB, 6GB and 20GB and they all take exactly the same time to add to the queue (about 3 seconds) Certainly not minutes!

     
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    Jul 17, 2012 2:31 AM   in reply to thirdeyeamsterdam

    I don't know... it could be the type of MXF (as MXF is only a container)... I'm using Sony's DV25 XDCAM MXF PAL generated files. The camcorders and VTR's are PDW-510P and PDW-1500 VTR. It's not system related (I have tested it in more than 4 workstations) and not file-related (these files used to work fine on earlier versions).

    Just hoping that patching the audio problem will correct the import issue too.

     
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    Jul 17, 2012 2:49 AM   in reply to Kostas Arvanitidis

    I agree its rather odd (and im sure very frustrating). The files I just tested with are Pal IMX30 and MXF HD422, and as I said, the encoder seems to queue them all equally fast.

     

    I also really hope there will be a quick solution as the vanishing audio its making Premiere virtually unusable for me at the moment!

     
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    Jul 29, 2012 7:16 AM   in reply to Mitch W

    Add me to the pool of users suffering this problem, in my case with footage from a Canon XF100, which is also XDCAM. I'm glad that someone from Adobe said that they were able to reproduce the problem and hopefully the next update will fix it.

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 3:06 AM   in reply to Curt Pair

    I am having massive issues also. I am using the Canon XF100 and premiere. There is currently no solution to importing the MXF files into premiere.....

     

     

    What's going on Adobe?

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 3:38 AM   in reply to Maxwell84

    Maxwell84 wrote:

     

    I am having massive issues also. I am using the Canon XF100 and premiere. There is currently no solution to importing the MXF files into premiere.....

     

     

    What's going on Adobe?

    Well, there is a workaround... I outlined mine above.

     

    However, I just did a new short project that was a single camera shoot and and hour long, so there were several spanned clips, and I had *no* issues.

     

    What I did different was before importing into PPr, I used the latest version of Canon XF Utility (1.3) to merge the clips together into one large MXF file, then imported that.  PPr did NOT render the audio, just created a PEK file.  I cut out the stuff I didn't want, added dissolves, titiles, an extra audio bit, and exported... Didn't lose the audio once.

     

    So try using the XF utility first, you may have better results.

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 4:01 PM   in reply to DaveTrayers

    Actually Dave is right, Canon MXFs seem to behave better when transferred using that utility rather than copying the whole card to a folder and using the Premiere media browser to import into the project. But that doesn't help the audio problem at least in my case. What it helped was a weird glitch I had when copying the card structure to a folder and then importing through the media browser, where there would be glitches in the footage, similar to drop-outs from digital tape. However, when watching the same exact portion on the camera there were no glitches. I tried using different cables, even taking the card out of the camera and using the computer's card reader, but the glitches were still there, and not always in the same places, which told me it might be a bug in Premiere. But importing using the Canon Utility solved this. The only problem with this is that a lot of metadata information is not transferred when using the "Export to MXF" function. Using the Backup function is the same as copying the folder structure to the hard drive, it still shows those glitches.

     

    I haven't experienced the sound bug again after I posted the first time, so it seems to be totally random.

     
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    Aug 4, 2012 2:32 PM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    Adobe listed the following as one of the updated bug fixes in 6.0.1 (in May): "Some audio files and some MXF files would go offline or have their audio reconformed when the project was re-opened or when Premiere Pro was minimized or lost focus."

     

    Apparently the bug wasn't completely fixed?

     

    We are looking at making the move to CS6 soon using MXF files from Canon XF100 and XF300 cameras.

     
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    Aug 4, 2012 2:43 PM   in reply to Donaldk7

    Donaldk7 wrote:

     

    We are looking at making the move to CS6 soon using MXF files from Canon XF100 and XF300 cameras.

    I would strongly suggest not to upgrade until Adobe fixes this for good. It's a really annoying bug, and you have to close and open the project every time it happens.

     
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    Aug 6, 2012 5:25 PM   in reply to Mitch W

    Mitch W wrote:

     

    Adobe has now been able to reproduce the issue (with the help of some of you here on the forum - thank you very much!) and is working on a fix. You aren't crazy. It is an Adobe issue. Don't bother deleting the conformed audio files, it won't help in this case.

    Mitch, I was wondering how close is Adobe to fixing this problem. I'm trying to edit this project from my Canon XF100, and it's driving me crazy, having to close and re-open Premiere several times in the past half hour because a new clip in the timeline suddenly mutes for no good reason. This seems to happen a lot when trimming by using IN and OUT points and pressing ' to extract. It's really frustrating to edit like this.

     
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    Aug 8, 2012 11:34 PM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    Instead of getting angry for this problem, I will help with more ideas to Adobe, Im from Argentina, im very dissapointed with this incredible audio issue, at least now Im reading more people with this problem....

     

    Ideas I have at this time:

     

    > Looks like the problem is only when you edit a clip with a lot of cuts, because i made a 2 hour long video for a school with a lot of speech and long shows with not too much editing and no problem with the audio

     

    >Looks like the problem is only with HD video, the same than before: it was a DV AVI file from my old Sony PD170....

     

    >The problem starts when i try to make an HD video with files from my Nikon D7000. I make shorts clips for electronic clubs with at least 60 cuts every take for about 1-2 seconds long. When you start the editing wit few cuts everything is fine, but when you try to put all those 60 cuts together the audio will be gone and u still see the waveform

     

    >No problem editing with a lot of cuts if I use my material from my Sony PD170. Incredible!

    I've just made a video clip with mp3 audio of 4 minutes with a lot of cuts and no problem at all with the audio...... a lot of effects too... everything ok

     

    >Conclusion: the problem starts when u import a lot of short video clips and select IN and OUT from every clip and try to mix them quickly.... no problem if u import 1 hour long video from fire wire from PD170 and make a lot of selections  (In and Outs).... Am I right?

     

    thats all i can say

    thanks for reading

     

    David from Buenos Aires

     
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    Aug 9, 2012 1:00 AM   in reply to david productions

     

    >Looks like the problem is only with HD video, the same than before: it was a DV AVI file from my old Sony PD170....

     

    >Conclusion: the problem starts when u import a lot of short video clips and select IN and OUT from every clip and try to mix them quickly.... no problem if u import 1 hour long video from fire wire from PD170 and make a lot of selections  (In and Outs).... Am I right?

     

    Hi,

    The problem isn't only with HD video. We're using MXF PAL DV@25Mbps and the problem randomly appears. Usually when we use audio gain the audio disappears. Using "Undo" the audio re-appears (!!).

    I'm forwarding this issue to our legal department. We've aired 3 stories with audio missing on some parts and the client refused to pay us (and he's right not to).

    It's unacceptable to have an issue with a feature (MXF support) that worked fine in previous versions. It's also unacceptable to release a (paid) version without checking crucial parts of the software (MXF is being used on most production studios now).

     
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    Aug 11, 2012 11:31 AM   in reply to Kostas Arvanitidis

    Kostas Arvanitidis wrote:

    I'm forwarding this issue to our legal department. We've aired 3 stories with audio missing on some parts and the client refused to pay us (and he's right not to).

    It's unacceptable to have an issue with a feature (MXF support) that worked fine in previous versions. It's also unacceptable to release a (paid) version without checking crucial parts of the software (MXF is being used on most production studios now).

     

    Yes, it's outrageous that Adobe would release software with such an obvious flaw that shows shortly after doing a few cuts with MXF footage. I was editing happily in Edius but I wanted the extra creativity I can have with the Adobe suite, but I've invested a lot of money not only in the suite, but in a new graphics card just so Premiere can have at least half the real time performance I was getting on Edius with a lame Radeon 4850 HD, and a Matrox MXO2 Mini to preview video properly. Shortly before that I spent $3,500 in a Canon XF100 along with two CF cards. It's really aggravating to not be able to edit video from it smoothly and having clips go mute for no good reason at all.

     

    In other words, Adobe, get on it, and release an update really soon.

     
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    Sep 5, 2012 8:48 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    I am seeing the exact same behavior editing XDCAM NTSC DVCam footage in CS6.  I don't understand how this made it through Adobe QC, this is a really bad bug.

     
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    Sep 5, 2012 10:47 AM   in reply to zoyaedit

    Now I bought 4 gb Ram more and the problem is solved?

     

    I mean, if the prolbem starts I just delete de cache folder and the problem is solved, that didnt happen when i had just 2 gb of ram.

     

    older configuration: 2gb RAM

    new coonfiguration: 6gb RAM

     

    hope it helps

     
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    Sep 5, 2012 10:49 AM   in reply to david productions

    I hope I'm proven wrong, but more RAM isn't the issue here. I have 8 GB and I still have problems.

     
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    Sep 5, 2012 11:10 AM   in reply to Kostas Arvanitidis

    I'm running with 24GB and I experience this issue.

     
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    Sep 5, 2012 12:50 PM   in reply to david productions

    david productions wrote:

     

    Now I bought 4 gb Ram more and the problem is solved?

     

    I mean, if the prolbem starts I just delete de cache folder and the problem is solved, that didnt happen when i had just 2 gb of ram.

     

    older configuration: 2gb RAM

    new coonfiguration: 6gb RAM

     

    hope it helps

    I am running CS6 on a HP i7 Laptop Workstation with 8GB of RAM and have the issue.

     
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    Sep 5, 2012 3:20 PM   in reply to david productions

    david productions wrote:

     

    Now I bought 4 gb Ram more and the problem is solved?

     

    I mean, if the prolbem starts I just delete de cache folder and the problem is solved, that didnt happen when i had just 2 gb of ram.

     

    older configuration: 2gb RAM

    new coonfiguration: 6gb RAM

    David, when you say the problem is solved by adding more RAM and deleting the cache folder, you mean solved permanently or for a while?

     

    I doubt this is related to RAM, I have 16 GB and this happens to me too. It could have been a coincidence.

     
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    Sep 6, 2012 6:47 AM   in reply to Curt Pair

    I've had this same problem and have been quite unhappy with how long it has been taking Adobe to fix.

     

    Let's hope this update released yesterday (9/6/12) will fix the problem!

     

    http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2012/09/premiere-pro-cs6-6- 0-2-update-hidpi-for-retina-display-bug-fixes-and-new-supported-gpus.h tml

     
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:59 AM   in reply to Curt Pair

    Here is the problem. Adobe Premiere doesn't play well with external sound cards of many brands. I have proven this. When my audio drops out as it does a few times a day, I switch to the stupid computer speakers and it works. I switch back to my studio speakers and no sound is playing. I have heard this issue time and time again and I am hearing of it in CS5 and CS6 so Adobe has no immediate concern on fixing this horrible issue. You need to call Adobe and complain and demand a fix.

     
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