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Noel Carboni

Aug 5, 2012 5:58 PM

  Latest reply: conroy, Aug 7, 2012 5:13 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2012 3:25 PM   in reply to JJMack

    JJMack wrote:

     

    "Photoshop Document ring chain...

     

    ... I find it strange that the wrong documment would be updated. ..."

     

     

    JJ, I guess you are using "ring chain" as a synonym for circular list.

     

    The "wrong document" being updated (or referenced in any way) when an Action is played is explicable when you consider that the relative offset between documents referenced by the Action can be different during recording than during playing.

     

    When recording an Action, Ctrl+Tab generates either of:

    "Select previous document"

    "Select document -n"

     

    And Shift+Ctrl+Tab generates either of:

    "Select next document"

    "Select document +n"

     

    Say you have opened in sequence Doc1 and Doc2. Doc1 is active when you start recording an Action in which you create Doc3 then press Ctrl+Tab to select the previously selected document, i.e. Doc1. The step recorded is "Select document -2".

     

    Later, you have three docs opened in sequence Doc1, Doc2 and Doc3. Doc 1 is active and you playback the Action. The Action creates Doc4 then the step "Select Document -2" will not select the previously active document Doc1:  it will select Doc2 instead - the "wrong document".

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,526 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Aug 6, 2012 3:26 PM   in reply to conroy

    It's not hard to imagine that document -1 once meant the most recently current document, document -2 meant the second most recently current document, etc.  That might have made that nomenclature make more sense.

     

    -Noel

     
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    Aug 6, 2012 3:30 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    It's not hard to imagine that document -1 once meant the most recently current document, document -2 meant the second most recently current document, etc.  That might have made that nomenclature make more sense.

     

    -Noel

     

    Yes, make more sense and behave usefully and reliably.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Aug 6, 2012 3:34 PM   in reply to conroy

    Now does my comment about how (incomplete) design changes throughout history seem to make more sense?

     

    I forget when the window cycling order change was made (and the Select Document actions step being documented as no longer being "reliable"), but the more we discuss this the more I remember noticing the change.  Must have been a long time ago - I've slept since then. 

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2012 3:35 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I never considered your comment as not making sense, Noel, and I'm sorry if I gave the impression of doing so.

     
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    Aug 6, 2012 4:36 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Cutting to the chase, since I don't use tabbed or floating (a minority position, I presume from the comments) what in this discussion presents itself as a problem not recognized as such? I see no difference from CS5 except for a little better stability.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Dec 23, 2006
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    Aug 6, 2012 5:29 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    You don't use tabbed or floating?  Typo?  What DO you use?

     

    JJ has listed a bunch of newly broken things.  Whether you (or the average user) will run into them seems unlikely.  But for those who DO use them...  Trouble.

     

    We note that it's kind of taking Adobe a long time to come out with 13.0.1.  Must be a lot of work going into that.

     

    -Noel

     

     

    P.S., No worries Conroy.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2012 6:10 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    setup.JPG

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 7, 2012 4:23 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel and JJ,

     

    After further observation, I believe the document list to be linear, not circular. I now think the behaviour of select next/previous/+n/-n document is a deliberate design and is sensible. Sensible because it enables an Action to specify the activation of documents according to their position in the document list.

     

    The onus is on the Action user to start playback with a document list state which matches the state when the Action was recorded (for example, only one document open, or three documents open and the first one active, etc). Similarly, the provider of an Action is responsible for supplying such information to the user.

     

    Here's what's happening.

     

    1 open doc:

    Repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab does nothing, of course.

     

    2 open docs:

    Starting at 1st doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates a repeating sequence of "Select next document" (2nd doc), "Select previous document" (1st doc).

    Starting at 2nd doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates a repeating sequence of "Select previous document" (1st doc), "Select next document" (2nd doc).

     

    3 open docs:

    Starting at 1st doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates the repeating sequence "Select next document" (2nd doc), "Select next document" (3rd doc), "Select document -2" (1st doc).

    Starting at 2nd doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates the repeating sequence "Select next document" (3rd doc), "Select document -2" (1st doc), "Select next document" (2nd doc).

    Starting at 3rd doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates the repeating sequence "Select document -2" (1st doc), "Select next document" (2nd doc), "Select next document" (3rd doc).

     

    4 open docs:

    Starting at first doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates the repeating sequence "Select next document" (2nd doc), "Select next document" (3rd doc), "Select next document" (4th doc), "Select document -3" (1st doc).

     

    … and so on. I was wrong before to think the behaviour was useless and unreliable. It seems good as long as the document list state when initiating play of an Action is the same as the state when initiating recording of the Action.

     

     

    I realise that none of this post addresses the problem of bug(s) affecting Windows and not Mac playback of Actions.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Dec 23, 2006
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    Aug 6, 2012 6:34 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Looks like a floating window to me, Lawrence.

     

    If you're not using actions and scripts that manipulate multiple documents, then you're likely not seeing any problems related to what we're describing.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2012 7:09 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Ok I suppose it is floating, just not window docking enabled. That means all the images in iPad or Win8 are floating.

     

    I gave up on using actions on multiple documents because I was having difficulties. I never looked past the event, just put it on a back burner and use other means.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 7, 2012 2:29 AM   in reply to JJMack

    JJMack wrote:

     

    Noel none of you action use save for web.  If any do you do you can not record the save for wab step in CS6 and expect it to work.

     

    That could be another Windows-only bug. I've used SFW in CS6 Actions on OS X without problem. If you provide a simple example which fails then I'll try it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 7, 2012 5:13 AM   in reply to JJMack

    Same problem on OS X 10.6.8. The recorded instruction is wrong - it says the filename ends with .html instead of .jpg. The output file is a JPEG, but with wrong extension on filename. I hadn't been affected because I use SFW to export PNG.

     
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