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Getting a clean mov export for Davinci Resolve from Premiere CS6.

Aug 8, 2012 5:31 AM

Hi, I'm using Premiere SC6 on windows 7, 64bit with m2t HDV video files. I've tried every export codec but when I import the exported file back into Premiere, and compare it with the original, there is always some quality loss. I'm just wondering what other people are doing about getting a decent export?

Thanks for any help.

4336 Views 33 Replies Latest reply: Jim Simon, Aug 10, 2012 11:28 AM

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1. Harm Millaard,

Aug 8, 2012 5:44 AM in reply to transendental

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Every export to a compressed format causes a generation loss. The only way to avoid that is to export uncompressed or to a visually lossless format like UT or Lagarith.

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2. transendental,

Aug 8, 2012 6:48 AM in reply to Harm Millaard

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I have tried all the codecs, including uncompressed, but there is still quality loss. How would I use UT or Lagarith in Premiere?

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3. Harm Millaard,

Aug 8, 2012 7:03 AM in reply to transendental

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How did you export to uncompressed? Please give as much details as you can.

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4. transendental,

Aug 8, 2012 7:24 AM in reply to Harm Millaard

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I have an m2t (HDV) file on the timeline, then File - Export:

Format: Quicktime.

Video Codec: Uncompressed YUV 8 bit 4:2:2 (also tried 10 bit).

Basic Video Settings: 1920 x 1080.

Field Order: tried all three (upper, lower and progressive) (progressive gave the best result.)

Aspect: Square Pixels.

Frame rate: 25.

Render at Maximum depth: tried both ticked and not ticked.

Advanced Settings: all default (nothing ticked).

Bitrate Settings: no limit on data rate.

Use Maximum Render Quality: ticked.

Thanks Harm.

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5. Harm Millaard,

Aug 8, 2012 7:30 AM in reply to transendental

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Format: Quicktime.

Forget about QuiRcktime, use AVI (uncompressed). Never use QuiRcktime on a Windows machine if you can avoid it. Not only does it cause serious gamma shifts, but it also robs PR from its 64 bit nature, reverting to 32 bit processing.

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6. transendental,

Aug 8, 2012 7:33 AM in reply to Harm Millaard

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I have tried AVI(uncompressed), with all the variations, and that still gives loss of quality. The problem is I need mov output for Resolve, as that's the only thing it will take.

Thanks.

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7. Jeff Bellune,

Aug 8, 2012 7:45 AM in reply to transendental

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Don't use "Uncompressed". When you select the Quicktime codec, choose
"None". The Uncompressed flavors are for use with third-party hardware
like Aja or BlackMagic.

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8. transendental,

Aug 8, 2012 7:49 AM in reply to transendental

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Acctually my last comment is not true, as Resolve does take mxf, cin, ari, dpx, r3d and some others of that ilk.

But I've just tried exporting mxf from Premiere and I'm dammed if I can see any difference on importing. So it looks like that might do the job, as long as Resolve makes it look decent on export.

Thanks for your help Harm. I probably could do with finding a way to export AVI without quality loss though.

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9. transendental,

Aug 8, 2012 7:51 AM in reply to Jeff Bellune

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I have tried 'None' Jeff. It looks the same as' Uncompressed'. Thanks anyway.

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10. Jim Simon,

Aug 8, 2012 8:02 AM in reply to transendental

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I have tried AVI(uncompressed), with all the variations, and that still gives loss of quality.

I question that observation. How are you determining the loss of quality?

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11. transendental,

Aug 8, 2012 8:13 AM in reply to Jim Simon

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Just tried it again Jeff and its still poor. I'm importing the avi back into Premiere, putting it on the timeline, zooming in and switching between the import and the original clip.

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12. Jim Simon,

Aug 8, 2012 8:33 AM in reply to transendental

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Can you post a screen shot?

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13. transendental,

Aug 8, 2012 9:14 AM in reply to Jim Simon

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Seems the mxf types from premiere arn't supported by Resolve, although tiff and cineon are which means working with strings of files. I'll get a screen shot sorted Jim. Thanks.

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14. ECBowen,

Aug 8, 2012 9:36 AM in reply to transendental

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Which MXF's did you try? The DNxHD MXF is what it supports. BTW an export option to Cinema DNG would be real nice for this and other workflows. Hint Hint Adobe

Eric
ADK

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15. transendental,

Aug 8, 2012 10:20 AM in reply to ECBowen

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Resolve supports DNxHD but Premiere CS6 only has MXF OP1a with presets: DV2, IMX and XDCAMHD. I used the XDCAMHD preset, as the others are not high def.

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16. Greg Baber,

Aug 8, 2012 11:43 AM in reply to ECBowen

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We are always looking at which codecs people are using and which we should include.

Hint Hint works alot better here -- https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

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17. transendental,

Aug 8, 2012 12:37 PM in reply to Greg Baber

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Greg: shall I start a new thread there?

Jim: here are the screen shots:

   Original from timeline.

   Uncomp AVI, Codec-UYVY

   Uncomp AVI, Codec-None

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18. ECBowen,

Aug 8, 2012 12:45 PM in reply to transendental

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Download and install this http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/en423319

I believe the DNxHD is under the QuickTime list

Eric
ADK

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19. Greg Baber,

Aug 8, 2012 1:08 PM in reply to transendental

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I was just giving out our feature request link for those people asking for additional codecs.

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20. shooternz,

Aug 8, 2012 2:11 PM in reply to transendental

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DPX is pretty standard to use in CC applications such as Resolve and Speedgrade.

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21. Jim Simon,

Aug 8, 2012 3:29 PM in reply to transendental

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Jim: here are the screen shots:
Very strange.

Try this. Export out a TIFF, Targa, PNG or other lossless image file format of the same frame from each clip; original and Uncompressed. Bring those stills into Photoshop and use the eyedropper on the same section of image. I'm curious what the numbers will show.

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22. Neil_CBR,

Aug 9, 2012 10:49 AM in reply to transendental

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transcendental, a couple of questions come to mind:

Is your footage:
1) shot progressive or interlaced?

2) captured from HDV tape or ingested from memory cards? (if captured, it could be interpreted as interlaced when it's really not)

3) matching your sequence settings? (program monitor may not show inconsistencies, but an export will)

If what you mean by quality loss is that little blur we see in the screenshots, I think your problem has nothing to do with the codec used. It might be caused by field dominance not being interpreted correctly, a field-order mismatch between footage and sequence, or stretching from anamorphic HDV to full-frame HD.

--------------
Neil Bastin
Post-Production Director
Jam Media Producers, Inc.

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23. AndyJenkins39,

Aug 9, 2012 3:58 PM in reply to Neil_CBR

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P.S. Looks like the gamma is shifting as well.

Echoing the suggestion to check field dominance, and also to create DPX files if they're going into Resolve.

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24. transendental,

Aug 10, 2012 3:57 AM in reply to Jim Simon

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Hi Jim,

Right, I exported the original capture and the uncompressed AVI export as two tiff files and took them into Photoshop. I chose a mid-luminance green area on the leaf and eye-droppered it. Here are the results:

Original: R:111, G:150, B:91, Y:79%

AVI:        R:111, G:150, B:90, Y:80%

Here are the histograms for each:

   original

   AVI

Thanks,
Steve.

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25. transendental,

Aug 10, 2012 4:05 AM in reply to ECBowen

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Thanks for that link ECBowen. That Avid DNxHD codec has done the trick as far as Resolve is concered. There is no perceptable difference between the image in Premiere of the original and the image in Resolve. And no difference between the DNxHD and a Premiere exported tiff sequence imported into Resolve. The great advantage of the DNxHD is of course that it's all in one file (as opposed to hundreds or thousdands of tiffs!) and the sound track is there.

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26. Harm Millaard,

Aug 10, 2012 4:08 AM in reply to transendental

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I wonder if these differences are large enough to notice. Sure there are marginal differences, but since figures are presented as integers, I wonder if the internal reporting might be something like B: 90.51 versus 90.49 and Y: 79.49 and 79.51 and thus too small to notice. Notice these figures might also be B: 91.49 versus 89.51 and Y: 78.51 versus 80.49. I do think these figures differ so little as to have no discernible impact on the picture quality.

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27. transendental,

Aug 10, 2012 4:24 AM in reply to Neil_CBR

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Hi Neil.

1) and 2) It's 1080i from a 1440x1080 HDV tape. The camera (Canon XH-A1) definitely records interlaced.

3) The sequence is set to 1080i25 (50i).

Regarding the AVI export, I have tried all the variations I can think of. Importing into After Effects and comparing gives the same result as comparing in Premiere, i.e. the AVI export is inferior. Progressive and Interlaced look slightly different, but I would say that neither is better.

Thanks.

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28. Jim Simon,

Aug 10, 2012 5:53 AM in reply to transendental

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Those Photoshop results tell a very different story about the "degradation" you're seeing. The most likely explanation here is that PP just isn't showing you the images perfectly accurately (something I've been saying for a long time) and there's nothing actually degraded about the Uncompressed file.

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29. transendental,

Aug 10, 2012 6:58 AM in reply to Jim Simon

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It's looking that way Jim, in which case that's good news. Interestingly that DNxHD file which looks perfect in Resolve looks poor when taken straight back into Premiere. I'll test that AVI in some other apps.

Thanks.

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30. Neil_CBR,

Aug 10, 2012 10:43 AM in reply to transendental

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I agree with Jim. Sometimes what you see in the Premiere program monitor has to be taken as a grain of salt. Too many factors affect the realtime preview. Follow Harm Millaard's advice on players but here's another tip: you may also bring the AVI into Premiere, load it up in the Source Monitor and turn on the scopes. Compare the readings with the scopes on the Program Monitor. Much better than trusting your own eyes.

Also, if you plan on using DNxHD as an intermediate codec in Windows, others have recommended 10-bit RGB color space when exporting to Resolve. Just be careful with gamma shifts. Again, if in doubt, use the scopes.

All in all, if quality is your priority and you need the roundtrip through Resolve, you should consider making changes to your workflow. Media Encoder could be your savior.

Neil

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31. ECBowen,

Aug 10, 2012 10:46 AM in reply to transendental

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Try changing the MPE mode to Software MPE and delete the previews. Save the project and close down Premiere. Re-open Premiere and load a project file again. Import the DNxHD file that you exported from Resolve and see if the shifts are there or not.

Eric
ADK

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32. ECBowen,

Aug 10, 2012 10:56 AM in reply to Greg Baber

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Greg Baber wrote:

We are always looking at which codecs people are using and which we should include.

Hint Hint works alot better here -- https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Considering Cinema DNG is an Adobe initiative, I am real suprised this is not already on thhe list

Eric
ADK

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33. Jim Simon,

Aug 10, 2012 11:28 AM in reply to ECBowen

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Considering Cinema DNG is an Adobe initiative, I am real suprised this is not already on thhe list

Right?!

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