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alternative to Quadro for Premiere 6

Aug 13, 2012 7:29 AM

A customer of mine is going to be running Premiere CS6 on a system I'm building for him.  The firepro series doesn't really provide any specific benefit in technology for any Adobe products apparently so they're out.  That leaves Quadro.  Nvidia has some very impressive specs for them like how they're 8x faster than dual 8-core Xeons at certain rendering tasks (!!!).  But then I saw that even the 2000 series is around $400.  That's not bad considering the performance but then I read some reviews.  Apparently it's not that much faster overall than a $160 gaming card from the 500-series.

Obviously it's more power/heat efficient at doing its job, as the card I'm looking at has a low profile cooler and doesn't even have a 6-pin additional power hookup but for that big of a $ difference, I'll put in a high flow fan and tell him to crank the airconditioning up in that room.  So what's a really decent mid-level card considering cost vs performance that will not be used for gaming, just Premiere?  Should I just go with one for a reasonable price with the highest CUDA core count I can get or are clock speed or 2GB vs 1GB onboard GDDR5 other significant features to weigh heavily?  I actually don't know how heavy on the VRAM CUDA operations get.

 

By the rest, the rest of the specs are:

MSI H77MA-G43 board

OCZ Vertex 4 256GB SSD

2TB WD Intellipower HDD (secondary)

Rosewill FUTURE Case

COOLER MASTER GX 450W Power Supply

Gskill Ripjaw X 1600MHz CL8 (8-8-8-24 timing) RAM 2x4GB

i5-3570 Ivy Bridge CPU (may bump down to lower clock chip since basically everything will be processed by the GPU, except maybe specific codecs, but then again it's an even trade off on money increase vs performance increase )

 

So any suggestion on the best card to use around $125-250 would be highly appreciated.

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 13, 2012 7:49 AM   in reply to VHC-CO-IT

    Since you are building, I presume Windows and not Mac?

     

    Go to the CS5 Benchmark http://ppbm5.com/ and view the results to see what works... there are many choices

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 13, 2012 8:38 AM   in reply to VHC-CO-IT

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/773101

     

    But, the official list does not include ALL cards that will work, only those cards that have completed testing

     

    For many others, with at least 1Gig of video ram, use the nVidia Hack http://forums.adobe.com/thread/629557 - which is a simple entry in a "supported cards" file

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 13, 2012 10:25 AM   in reply to VHC-CO-IT

    Start with the budget available. Your configuration is not very good at all, so start reading some background here: PPBM5 Benchmark

     

    Then have a look at: MPE Gain - PPBM5

     

    Then read some more articles in the FAQ section, and Adobe Forums: What PC to build? An update...

     

    • MSI H77MA-G43 board, wrong choice. Consider a Z77 for a budget model.
    • OCZ Vertex 4 256GB SSD, wrong choice. Consider Samsung 830 when severely squeezed for budget, or Corsair Performance Pro.
    • 2TB WD Intellipower HDD (secondary), wrong choice. Get at least TWO WD Caviar Black or Caviar Red disks.
    • Rosewill FUTURE Case, bad choice. Look at some better full tower cases like Fractal Design.
    • COOLER MASTER GX 450W Power Supply. Much too small and not very good. Look at a Gold label PSU from a good company, like Corsair or Seasonic.
    • Gskill Ripjaw X 1600MHz CL8 (8-8-8-24 timing) RAM 2x4GB. Not enough. Get at least 16 GB.
    • i5-3570 Ivy Bridge CPU (may bump down to lower clock chip since basically everything will be processed by the GPU, except maybe specific codecs, but then again it's an even trade off on money increase vs performance increase ). Change that to at least the i5-3570K or better to an i7-3770K. And your assuption is incorrect. CPU is the overriding and decisive component.

     

    With your choosen components you will be lucky to achieve a rank # 850 to # 950 in the benchmark, if it runs at all with that PSU. At least 20 - 40 times slower than a fast system.

     

    If you want to have a look at how other people approach the issue of building, see Adobe Forums: Planning / building a new system. Part 1

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 14, 2012 8:15 AM   in reply to VHC-CO-IT

    Hmm too bad that PPBM5 chart doesn't include the new GT640 since it's PCI-E 3.0 and has a ton of cores and is only $110-ish.

     

    Yet another confirmation you no not understand what works with PR and why or why not. The GT 640 is even slower than a GTS 450.

     

    [Irrelevant and personal comments deleted]

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 14, 2012 8:19 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Gentlemen (Harm Millaard and VHC-CO-IT),

     

    You two have engaged in making pointed personal comments at one another across several topics.  Stop it.  Keep your posts on-topic and refrain from making personal attacks.  You've both been warned.

     

    Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 14, 2012 8:39 AM   in reply to VHC-CO-IT

    Have a look at the icon used for the program, unless of course you don't have it.pr.png

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 14, 2012 8:45 AM   in reply to VHC-CO-IT

    "Pr" is an accepted shorthand for Premiere Pro in these forums.  The developers prefer the full Premiere Pro name, but most users don't take the time to write it out. 

     

    Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 14, 2012 12:56 PM   in reply to VHC-CO-IT

    VHC-CO-IT,

     

    I've read your posts in this and other threads, including this comment:

    VHC-CO-IT wrote:

     

    There is no "slower" or "faster" for graphics cards.  One card may be faster at shadows in games, slower at HD playback, faster at floating point physics operations, slower at rendering in Premiere. 

    ...

    By the way, what is this "PR" you keep talking about?  Adobe doesn't have a product called that.  Do you mean Premiere?  Premiere Pro? Adobe Public Relations? Lol.

    While it's obvious that you're very knowledgable with hardware, I find some of your comments offensive and out of context...

     

    First, Harm has been on the Pr Hardware Forum for years, providing information and assistance to a large number of people including me.   At minimum, he deserves respect for his efforts even if you don't agree with his opinion.  So can the attitude and simply state your opinions without being offensive.

     

    Second, understand the culture in this forum before commenting.  This is a Premiere forum.   "Pr" refers to Premiere.   Unless stated otherwise, ALL performance related discussions are related to Premiere performance.

     

    Third, you have no history in this forum and I don't agree with some of your opinions.  So you will need to provide supporting evidence until you better establish yourself here.   

     

    Regarding your opinions, I disagree with your opinions about monitors.  In another thread, posted this: "One I was previously looking at for a customer is the #1 highest rated ASUS monitor on all of newegg (in the $100-200 category), winner of the customer choice award, and 23.6" with all the right specs for a mere $159.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236052"

     

    Given that they don't describe what kind of panel is in that Asus monitor, it almost certainly has a TN panel.   This monitor is good for games and watching movies.  I have four good quality TN panels (Samsung) for software development.  But the color is mediocre.

     

    For critical editing of stills and video, an IPS panel is necessary (IMO). This is my monitor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002544.   Notice the IPS nomenclature in the description? (And yes, I have a Quadro 4000 to take advantage of the NEC's features.)   There are other IPS panel monitors at lower cost that will do a fine job for image and video editing.  I know of no TN panels that qualify for high-quality editing.   So...  On what do you base your monitor opinion?  How much experience do you have editing video?   How much with Pr (Premiere)?  

     

    Dan.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 14, 2012 1:36 PM   in reply to VHC-CO-IT

    The chart in the PPBM5 site is but a database of systems that users of PrPro have benchmarked.

     

    When you state:

    Hmm too bad that PPBM5 chart doesn't include the new GT640 since it's PCI-E 3.0 and has a ton of cores and is only $110-ish.

    The absence of hardware only indicates that to date, no user with _____ (insert hardware here), has tested with the PPBM5, or their results have not yet been posted.

     

    It is not a test site, where the authors try out every possible piece of hardware (though some users do swap and retest), but a site that allows users to run a standardized test for their equipment, and then submit their results to be placed into the database, that we see as the chart.

     

    Good luck, and hope that clears up what the PPBM5 is, and what the chart reflects.

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 7:06 AM   in reply to Dan Clark

    Dan Clark,

     

    Have always been a bit puzzled, about the claim for the need of IPS panels for NLE editing, in any but the most demanding (and profitable) editing suites, since color correction will likely (and should?) be done on standard broadcast monitors in any case....  For anyone looking to save $1000+ per monitor, Is there any truly compelling advantage to having timelines, bins and viewer and source windows on scrupulously accurate monitors, apart from the confidence or pleasure that accuracy might offer?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 7:40 AM   in reply to jamesp2

    James,

     

    You make a valid point.  IMO...

     

    On one end of the spectrum, you have the professional folks who have a pro-level NLE editing work environment with all of the appropriate tools including a standard broadcast monitor.   On the other end of the spectrum are people who want NLE basics and that's it.   And then there is the vast middle ground - people with a complex array of needs and constraints (cost and otherwise).  I would argue that IPS paneled monitors meet the needs of many folks in the middle ground.

     

    I'm in that middle ground.  I don't have the space or need for a broadcast monitor.  I want fairly accurate color when color grading, but I'm not concerned with getting it 100%.   In addition, I do photo editing (LR4 + PS CS6) and printing (Epson 3880) where color quality is very important.  The NEC calibrated with a puck and software gives me the color quality I want.

     

    My Pr editing workspace has the Pr monitor windows in the NEC monitor, and some of the other panel windows (project, timeline, effects, etc.) on a separate Samsung 2443 TN panel monitor. After recently upgrading to CS6 from CS5, I'm still fiddling with the layout, but this seems to work pretty well.

     

    Regards,

     

    Dan.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 16, 2012 12:44 PM   in reply to VHC-CO-IT

    i am a system builder and specifically for NLE systems

     

    Harm was 100% correct. the system you propsed to do is so far off from being an NLE system its not funny, barely work for a gaming box and not a good one.

     

    Z77 chipset minimum why hard rive thruput for one expansion ability for 2 and frankly it really should be on an X79. using a MTX is unacceptable for video editing (other than home hobbyiest level cheesy software)

    3700K <--- note K for over clocking as thats the best way to go.. again should be 3930K

    16 gig ram absolute minimum for CS6 and 32 is better. good luck with Gskill and getting it to run right.. hope you know how to set timings manually..

     

    power supply: this is the most over looked item in a build, real system builders know this and ALWAYS over power.

    bare minimum is 700w 80+ ideally 1000W or more (depending on drive count and video card) a lot of our systems go out with 1200W

     

    drives :  SSD is pointless for video editing it will offer NO performance gain. it will (as the OS drive ) make windows snappier. i wouldnt touch OCZ with a 10' pole.. one of the worst companies. Crucial, Intel, Samsung

     

    very bare minimum set up

     

    OS drive

    Media drive

    Render drive 

    External back up

    thats 4 in case you lost count..

     

    better set up.

    OS drive (can be ssd)

    Media drive (raid 0) (onboard raid)

    Export drive (raid 0) (onboard raid

    external back up  (thats 6 drives)

     

    best (ish)

     

    OS SSD

    8-16 Drive Raid 5-6 internal or external on Intel or Arecca raid card  way overkill for most peoples needs

    external raid 5/6 NAS storage equal to the size of other raid.

     

    Video card:

    NO Quadro they are a joke unless using solidworks

    560/570 would be bare minimum

    670/680 preferred.

     

    case? frankly not all that important but since we build very quiet systems it does matter to us..

    cooling: your comment about "crank up the air" seriously? wow.. Noctua case fans and cpu coolers (several others as well)

     

    of course you can ignore all this if you are building a hobbiest system not a pro system.

     

    Scott

    ADK

     

    [Personal comments deleted]

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 1:24 PM   in reply to VHC-CO-IT

    [Thread locked]

     
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