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paul_ocean
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MacBook Pro Retina Display Support ?

Jun 13, 2012 10:11 AM

Tags: #macbook #pro #display #apple #retina

I just purchased a new MacBook Pro Retina Display laptop, and would like to know when I can expect Adobe to upgrade the CS6 suite of apps to take advantage of the Retina display.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 13, 2012 11:46 AM   in reply to paul_ocean

    Moving this discussion to the Photoshop General Discussion forum.  Also you may want to check out a blog discussing this topic briefly by John Nack at http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/.  For other products we don't have any specific annoucements at this time.

     

    Depending on the program the main update I believe you would be looking for would be for the UI itself.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 13, 2012 1:49 PM   in reply to paul_ocean

    It's good to hear the Retina display technology is finding its way into real computers.  I hope we'll see full-sized standalone displays with 200+ ppi density soon.

     

    Paul, does your question imply that the UI elements in Photoshop when run on that display are teeny tiny?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
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    Jun 13, 2012 2:56 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    There have been so many posts here asking that Adobe upsize Photoahop's tool icons.  That was for the newer monitors with WQXGA and similar resolutions, where the tool icons are tiny enough.  A quick Google found a 15 inch Apple laptop with an incredible 2,880 by 1,800 display.   Photoshop Tool icons are going to be just a few milimetres wide on such a display.   But I see there is a fix on the way http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/news/?NewsID=3363267

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 13, 2012 3:47 PM   in reply to paul_ocean
     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 13, 2012 4:05 PM   in reply to Bob Levine

    The wording of those articles bothers me somehow...  As though a specific change is being made just for the devices with Retina displays.

     

    I can imagine that maybe they have some idea that a special flag to just double the number of pixels to draw things might be enough.  That would do the job, but it would still leave all the folks who'd like the UI elements to be resizable for accessibility reasons out in the cold.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 13, 2012 4:52 PM   in reply to paul_ocean

    I called Adobe support today to ask about the impact that the new Macbook Pro with Retina Display will have on CS6 and what fixes Adobe has lined up.

     

    The Adobe support person told me that the question was too ridiculous to answer.  He said that there are no issues with CS6 on the new retina display Mac's.

     

    I think we're on our own until Adobe is flooded with calls.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
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    Jun 13, 2012 7:01 PM   in reply to BeehiveBabs

    It would be interesting to see a screen dump of photoshop from your laptop.  A quick and dirty calculation suggests the tool icons are going to be about 3mm (1/8 inch) across.  If you could upload a screen dump, and give us the physical width of your screen, we could duplicate it on our own monitors. 

     

    I have just had a browse through some of the apps on my iPad3, and in all fairness, I can read the tiniest of print without a problem, and I have dreadful eyesight.  I am wondering if the superb contrast and high DPI of a small retina display would overcome the limitations of size. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 13, 2012 7:36 PM   in reply to BeehiveBabs

    Support really doesn't know what the new display means yet.

     

    As noted from the demonstration and press releases -- we're working on it.

     

    But it will take some time, and we can't comment on unannounced versions of products.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 15, 2012 9:53 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Hi, I would like to ask a question about older products such as CS4, CS5, CS5.5. Is there any chance that these apps could receive an Adobe update just for UI sharpness to be optimized for the new retina display MacBook Pro? Will any applications besides Photoshop CS6 be optimized?

     
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  • JJMack
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    Jun 15, 2012 11:06 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Chris Cox wrote:

     

    Support really doesn't know what the new display means yet.

    Mainly it just a resolution thing. With a resolution if 220 DPI/PPI what ever  you preferred term is.  At this resolition normal things used today like text and icon become very small to a point that for many with their eye site they are unreadable for they were designed for screens with a 100dpi resolution.  When you make fonts for higher resolution displays other thing will break like forms menu bars etc for they now need to be larger to hold the greater number of pixels fonts will be so they are readable.  Having used an IBM  22" T221 display with a 204DPI I can tell you font size need to be addressed.  While the Apple display has fewer pixels then the T221 it is also smaler and has a pixel density of pixels 220PPI. The average user will not be able to read todays font. So I'm sure Apple has included larger font for this display. Applications like Photoshop will need to adjust the size of there GUI so these new larger fonts will fit and adobe will need a set of icon for high resolution displays which will be hitting the market.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 15, 2012 11:14 AM   in reply to koryuh@me.com

    koryuh@me.com wrote:

     

    Hi, I would like to ask a question about older products such as CS4, CS5, CS5.5. Is there any chance that these apps could receive an Adobe update just for UI sharpness to be optimized for the new retina display MacBook Pro? Will any applications besides Photoshop CS6 be optimized?

     

    I don't speak for Adobe, and as Chris has said Adobe doesn't speak about things not yet announced, but I'd be willing to bet hard currency that none of the prior versions is going to be updated.  They just don't do that sort of thing.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 15, 2012 1:12 PM   in reply to paul_ocean

    Am I the only one confused why people buy into doubly dense displays and then want to dumb them down by making elements on them twice as large?  That seems wasteful. Scoot your chair closer to the screen. I hold an iPhone 4 closer to my face than a 2nd gen iPod touch. It is no big deal. They look the same that way.

     

    The retina display does not introduce a new issue. Dot pitch has been increasing for years. We see people that will adjust their LCDs to a non-native resolution (ie: running 1024x768 on a 1280x1024-capable display). Or they will adjust their system settings to display larger fonts. Instead of buying the right monitor for their needs and eyesight, they misuse an expensive display. I would love to have the pixels that they are not using. A pixel is a terrible thing to waste.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
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    Jun 15, 2012 3:44 PM   in reply to Don Quinn

    There was a recent Photoshop User TV podcast where the regulars all spoke about using Apple laptops as their primary systems for using Photoshop. In fact, in all but one case, a laptop was their only computer! I bet those guys are going to be quick to uptake the latest Apple laptops - hey I bet the likes of Scott Kelby, at least, doesn't have to pay for his laptop. So it would be interesting to get their take on things. I think I'll write and ask, and maybe point them to this thread.

     

    There have been some good points here though. I have a current iPod (I have no idea what generation it is) and an iPad3, and while the iPod is definitely ever so slightly challenging to read the small text, as I said back up the thread, the iPad3 is completely comfortable to use because of the superb display. And I really do have poor eyesight to the point that I am not allowed to drive at night.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 15, 2012 4:36 PM   in reply to Don Quinn

    Don, you're under 30, right? Think back on this in about 25 years when the old eyes don't focus on close things quite so well any more...

     

    In all seriousness, I can imagine wanting to make parts of the UI a bit bigger on a 200+ ppi display, but maybe not double in size (i.e., so they'd be smaller than they physically are now on a 100 ppi display, but somewhat above microscopic). The advantage of the higher pixel density obviously is that when you want to you can really pack the information into that display because the pixels are there for the using. I imagine it will be easier to see things in the actual Photos under edit as well.

     

    And let's not fault those who'd like the UI elements the same size they are now, but just beautifully formed, with smooth, clean, non-pixelated letters.

     

    Most folks may not realize that the effective horizontal resolution on a 100ppi RGB LCD display when font smoothing is employed that uses color-precompensation is raised to much higher than 100 ppi. Consider this screen capture vs. a macro photo of the text actually rendered on an LCD display. You'll have to click on this to see it properly.

     

    ScreenShotVsPhotoOfScreen.jpg

     

    -Noel

     
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  • JJMack
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    Jun 15, 2012 9:33 PM   in reply to Don Quinn

    Don Quinn wrote:

     

    Am I the only one confused why people buy into doubly dense displays and then want to dumb them down by making elements on them twice as large?  That seems wasteful. Scoot your chair closer to the screen. I hold an iPhone 4 closer to my face than a 2nd gen iPod touch. It is no big deal. They look the same that way.

    No one want to dumb the display down they want the higher native resolution for their images will be a closer match to their print sizes and be very sharp.  Users will want to be able to read text used in user interfaces.  Today font pixel sizes were designed to be readable on 96DPI displays. On displays with higher resolution they display sharper and smaller. The higher the resolution is the finer the text size becomes. At some point you will have a problem reading the finer text holding your face closer to the display let you read the text on part of the display but you will be so close you will not be able to view the whole display it 15" not 4" like your iPhone

    No one want to dumb the display down they want the higher native resolution for their images will be a closer match to their print sizes and be very sharp.  Users will want to be able to read text used in user interfaces.  Today font pixel sizes were designed to be readable on 96DPI displays. On displays with higher resolution they display sharper and smaller. The higher the resolution is the finer the text size becomes. At some point you will have a problem reading the finer text holding your face closer to the display let you read the text on part of the display but you will be so close you will not be able to view the whole display it 15" not 4" like your iPhone

    No one want to dumb the display down they want the higher native resolution for their images will be a closer match to their print sizes and be very sharp.  Users will want to be able to read text used in user interfaces.  Today font pixel sizes were designed to be readable on 96DPI displays. On displays with higher resolution they display sharper and smaller. The higher the resolution is the finer the text size becomes. At some point you will have a problem reading the finer text holding your face closer to the display let you read the text on part of the display but you will be so close you will not be able to view the whole display it 15" not 4" like your iPhone

    Can you read all of this? The I phone most likely uses a font designed for its native 326DPI resolution...

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
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    Jun 15, 2012 9:49 PM   in reply to JJMack

    JJMack wrote:

     

     

    No one want to dumb the display down they want the higher native resolution for their images will be a closer match to their print sizes and be very sharp.  Users will want to be able to read text used in user interfaces.  Today font pixel sizes were designed to be readable on 96DPI displays. On displays with higher resolution they display sharper and smaller. The higher the resolution is the finer the text size becomes. At some point you will have a problem reading the finer text holding your face closer to the display let you read the text on part of the display but you will be so close you will not be able to view the whole display it 15" not 4" like your iPhone

    Can you read all of this? The I phone most likely uses a font designed for its native 326DPI resolution...

     

    No.  Not even close.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Jun 16, 2012 3:38 AM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    I am sure Apple will include new larger system font so the desktop can be easy to read.  Programs like Photoshop use fonts that fit within their menu and option bars which have some pixel size.   These bars will need to be increased in pixel size so new larger font sizes can be used so they will be readable. Its physical size that matters.  

     

    If you run on a windows system you can set your display to use a custom font size rather then the 96dpi font size set to 220ppi you will find many programs will not work well for fonts will not fit within the space allocate to hold the text.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 16, 2012 7:04 AM   in reply to JJMack

    It's good to see these radical changes in ppi.  Application designers (and I'm sorry to say Adobe hasn't been one of the better ones) have far too long been getting away with just fixing sizes so that they can get by on a 100-ish ppi display.  I'm sure this has influenced display designers to avoid going "too high" with their ppi values.  As a result those of us who could really use the additional pixels haven't been able to get what we need.  Kudos to Apple for pushing forward!

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 18, 2012 4:30 AM   in reply to JJMack

    All of your tiny text is perfectly readable in an iOS/retina display.

     

    The reason why UI fonts are designed at pixel sizes is because OS providers have dragged their feet on scalable UI APIs. Perhaps Apple will improve this as they push retina pixel density.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 13, 2012 2:27 PM   in reply to Don Quinn

    Apple already has a scalable UI API. It's called Quartz 2D. It's been in OS X from the start. It was based on Display Postscript designed by Adobe for Steve Jobs' NeXT in 1987.

     

    Part of the problem is that it's easier to create bitmap images than scalable graphics. Part of it is that bitmaps designed for a specific resolution tend to look better than scalable graphics scaled to that resolution.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Aug 13, 2012 4:10 PM   in reply to qseep

    Don't forget much of Photoshop's UI has to be able to compile to work on both Mac and PC.  One tends to see "least common denominator" results with those kinds of constraints.  Windows also has UI scalability, but Adobe doesn't use it either.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 7:43 AM   in reply to Don Quinn

    Don Quinn wrote:

     

    Am I the only one confused why people buy into doubly dense displays and then want to dumb them down by making elements on them twice as large?  That seems wasteful. Scoot your chair closer to the screen. I hold an iPhone 4 closer to my face than a 2nd gen iPod touch. It is no big deal. They look the same that way.

     

    The retina display does not introduce a new issue. Dot pitch has been increasing for years. We see people that will adjust their LCDs to a non-native resolution (ie: running 1024x768 on a 1280x1024-capable display). Or they will adjust their system settings to display larger fonts. Instead of buying the right monitor for their needs and eyesight, they misuse an expensive display. I would love to have the pixels that they are not using. A pixel is a terrible thing to waste.

     

    You show a complete lack of understanding of the problem, and what the Retina display brings to the table. It's not just a higher density display — it's roughly double the resolution. You even said it, but did you think it through? According to your suggestion, we should run the display at the double resolution and deal with half-sized UI elements. Can I say, "yuck!"? Just TRY to use Photoshop with buttons this small:

     

    http://d.pr/i/LVTH (screenshot of Photoshop CS6 on my rMBP at the highest resolution) Squeeze that into a 15in. laptop screen and you'll see the problem.

     

    Most are smaller than my mouse pointer. Some apps that don't support the display are completely unusable. I tried playing Team Fortress 2 soon after getting my rMBP and found that the settings UI is so small it's impossible. The doubled resolution isn't so we get more screen real estate — it's so we get super-crisp images and a level of detail in the photos and graphics we work on that parallels printed work. Hell, I'd settle for just getting the workspace Retina supported. I don't care if the UI is grainy, I just want my photos and prints to be crystal clear.

     

    I'm STILL waiting on word (any word at all) from Adobe that even HINTS on Retina support. I refuse to purchase software because odds are, it'll be in 6.5 and I'll have to purchase all over again. I'd go Creative Cloud but I'm not paying $50/mo for ugly software from a company who could be a bit more loving to the consumer. Also, I just can't afford it. I'm unfortunately stuck waiting with just Pixelmator (which is Retina supported already... ahem) until Adobe says something. ANYTHING. Instead, you could hear a pin drop in the silence. WE JUST WANT TO KNOW

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Aug 15, 2012 8:08 AM   in reply to chrmr

    Except for what their Marketing machine puts out, the Adobe people aren't allowed to comment on future releases. 

     

    The Marketeers probably don't frequent the forum much, not having the time to spare from their normal activities.

     

    http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/20000/8000/500/28549/28549.strip.gif

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 8:18 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    Except for what their Marketing machine puts out, the Adobe people aren't allowed to comment on future releases.

     

    One of the many flaws in their oh-so-beloved business model. When you're the industry standard for many professions, you owe it to your customers to keep them updated (especially with the amount of money we fork over). A lot of us make a living with their software, and going without it hurts. A lot. Plus, it's just the nice thing to do :/

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 11:05 AM   in reply to chrmr

    >> I'm STILL waiting on word (any word at all) from Adobe that even HINTS on Retina support.

     

    You mean other than that demo at WWDC?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 5:18 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Well if they had a demo at WWDC (I did read that months ago) then why is it taking so long to production the support?  For myself I'm not looking at some "bigger than Ben Hur" solution, just a useable solution on Retina.  I'm currently using Aperture for my work but its another learning curve.  Mind you, once I've mastered it Aperture would be a much lower cost solution for me on Mac.  I use PS on Win7 for the vast majority of my work and I would like to get a mac license for my work.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 6:38 PM   in reply to dvdhack

    Because Photoshop is a large application and has a lot of things to change and test?

    Because Apple didn't deliver the machines, API changes, or bug fixes to older APIs until they shipped the new MacBooks?  (if you wanted instant support - talk to Apple about why they didn't provide earlier access for developers, like they used to)

     
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  • JJMack
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    Aug 20, 2012 6:43 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Chris please take your time and do it right.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 30, 2012 3:41 PM   in reply to JJMack
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 11, 2012 11:45 AM   in reply to Brett N

    The Photoshop CS6 13.0.2 update is now available free to all Mac users. It provides support for Retina displays.

    Photoshop 13.0.2 update for CS6

     
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