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Text color over transparent graphics and in on-screen display of PDFs 'printed' from InDesign

Aug 16, 2012 6:17 PM

Tags: #pdf #transparency #type_color

Hello, All!

 

I'm new here and am having trouble with color in InDesign CS3.  The attached collage of screenshots explains both parts of the problem:  putting a graphic under type prevents me from having the purple type I want—and, when I make a PDF from that InDesign document, all the right purple (even the stuff with no graphics beneath it) is converted to the wrong purple.  (Ignore the statement about zoom factors; it was explanation for a friend.)  It seems almost incredible that there's no way to avoid this problem, but my searches for the solution have been fruitless so far.  (I'm admittedly a novice in some aspects of InDesign.)

Public 2012-08-15 c1530EDT.png

Although I may eventually print the document on actual paper, with just an inkjet printer, I'm not quite as concerned about the color there.  Just having the proper purple in the on-screen display of a PDF would be quite an improvement over the present roadblock.

 

Thanks to anyone who can help:  you surely know more than I about such things.

764 Views   8 Replies   Latest reply: unegomme, Aug 17, 2012 10:40 AM
 
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  • Rob Day
    2,330 posts
    Oct 16, 2007
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    1. Rob Day,
    Aug 17, 2012 6:11 AM   in reply to unegomme
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    If your document's destination is not an offset press set your Transparency Blend Space to RGB. The purple you are specing is not in the CMYK color gamut.

     
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  • unegomme
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    2. unegomme,
    Aug 17, 2012 7:05 AM   in reply to Rob Day
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    Thanks, Rob Day!

     

    That's exactly what was needed to solve the first part of the problem.  Just two clicks (after checking in the Help files where the setting was).

     

    (I'd changed so many other things to RGB, to no avail.  The Help files' zillions of things about color settings, profiles, spaces, and so on, are daunting to sift through when one usually designs monochrome documents.)

     

    For anyone else who encounters this problem and needs the details of the solution:

    1.  First part (display within InDesign):  In the "Edit" menu, choose "Transparency Blend Space" and then "Document RGB".

    2.  Second part (on-screen display of the PDF):  When making the PDF from InDesign's "Print" dialog box, go to the "Output" 'tab' and, under "Color", choose "Composite RGB".

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Oct 16, 2007
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    3. Rob Day,
    Aug 17, 2012 7:21 AM   in reply to unegomme
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    Just to note, an RGB Transparency Blend space is not usually appropriate for a press workflow—your out-of-gamut purple will eventually be brought into gamut on press no matter what blend space is used. Also any black text will output as 4-color, which is often a problem on press.

     
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  • unegomme
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    4. unegomme,
    Aug 17, 2012 8:40 AM   in reply to Rob Day
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    Thanks for reminding me, Rob Day.  I had gathered as much from my perusal of the Help files and the warning I got when I first changed the Transparency Blend space.  I'll keep it in mind whenever I do make something destined for hardcopy.

     

    Earlier, when it was in the CMYK space, I was confused, though:  Even if underlying images would be printed on paper with CMYK inks, couldn't an exact purple still be printed from a specially chosen ink (spot color)?  (I imagine the photos being printed with CMYK, with certain non-printed areas exactly the same shape as the text, and then the text being printed in the proper purple spot color.)  I tried various ways of telling InDesign that that bright purple was something that should stay exactly as it was (on the idea that it was a spot color), but never could escape that muddy purple until I followed your suggestion about the Transparency Blend Space.  Was I just not doing it right, or is there no way in InDesign to keep most of a document in CMYK but still have spot colors appear on screen exactly as I want them?

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    5. Peter Spier,
    Aug 17, 2012 8:57 AM   in reply to unegomme
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    On press spot colors are fine (they converted to CMYK on digital printers), but to use one you need to define a color as spot -- usually best to pick a swatch from one of the standard spot color libraries -- and then apply it to the text in question. If you don't tell ID that soomthing is a spot color there is now way the program is going to read your mind.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Oct 16, 2007
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    6. Rob Day,
    Aug 17, 2012 9:06 AM   in reply to unegomme
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    but never could escape that muddy purple until I followed your suggestion about the Transparency Blend Space.

     

    A spot color will not be previewed inside the CMYK gamut when the blend space is CMYK if it's defined as Lab and Overprint or Separation Preview is turned on. In CS6 Pantone Solid Spot colors are automatically defined as lab. In earlier versions you may have to turn on Use Lab... in Ink Manager.

    Here my blend space is CMYK:

     

    Screen-shot-2012-08-17-at-11.56.28-AM.png

     

    Overprint off:

     

    Screen shot 2012-08-17 at 12.04.16 PM.png

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Oct 16, 2007
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    7. Rob Day,
    Aug 17, 2012 9:25 AM   in reply to unegomme
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    2.  Second part (on-screen display of the PDF):  When making the PDF from InDesign's "Print" dialog box, go to the "Output" 'tab' and, under "Color", choose "Composite RGB".

     

    The PDF/X-4 preset lets you export a spot color document unchange—you won't loose the spot and CMYK values and it will preview without clipping:

     

    Screen shot 2012-08-17 at 12.24.45 PM.png

     
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  • unegomme
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    8. unegomme,
    Aug 17, 2012 10:40 AM   in reply to Rob Day
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    Thanks, Rob and Peter.

     

    I had defined the swatch as a spot—but, as Rob now makes clear to me, certain settings were still going to shove the monitor display of it into a CMYK approximation.

     

    Thanks also for telling me about PDF/X-4.  That should help with the slight change I noticed in the colors of underlying photos when I switched the Transparency Blend Space to RGB.

     

    Especially appreciate your graphics:  like your words, they're easy to understand.

     
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