Skip navigation
akadmon
akadmon Calculating status...
Currently Being Moderated

Need closer integration with Photoshop

Aug 16, 2012 9:01 PM

Whenever I tell LR to edit a photo in PS (CS6), I get back a TIFF file that is 10X larger than the orginal RAW file, and I ultimetly delete it to save space (after first converting it to a jpeg). Why doesn't PS do LR style non-destructrive editing, i.e., why not simply return a record of the edits made in a format compatible with LR? 

738 Views   8 Replies   Latest reply: akadmon, Aug 17, 2012 8:51 PM
 
Replies
  • Hal P Anderson
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Hal P Anderson,
    Aug 17, 2012 3:27 AM   in reply to akadmon
    Report

    Photoshop can't work that way. It's a pixel editor, not a parametric editor like Lightroom. It isn't going to change. Disk space is cheap.

     

    Hal

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • -Agfaclack-
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. -Agfaclack-,
    Aug 17, 2012 3:32 AM   in reply to akadmon
    Report

    because that is not how PS was build. PS is a pixel editing program. always was.

     

    for TIF use losless LZW or ZIP compression in photoshop. makes them a bit smaller.

     

    JPG is .... lets say a bad choice for photographers to store their master files.
    JPG is fine for the web.. but that´s it.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • richardplondon
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. richardplondon,
    Aug 17, 2012 5:09 AM   in reply to akadmon
    Report

    The things that Lightroom can do, don't need to go to Photoshop.

     

    Other things have to be done in PS using different methods and stored differently than would have happened in LR; or else, LR could have done them .

     

    These different methods may themselves have nondestructive aspects to them; in that some or all of those operations may be fully reversible, or may otherwise remain adjustable. But these are only nondestructive in their own terms, not in Lightroom's - in that the limit on how far BACK they are reversible, is up to Photoshop - and no longer up to LR.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • nufarydyna
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. nufarydyna,
    Aug 17, 2012 6:22 AM   in reply to akadmon
    Report

    Why are your tiffs 10X biger than Raws?? Check your preferences and perhaps you use 16-bit tiffs. For 99.9% of photos 8-bit tiffs are absolutely sufficient and then the resulting file are much smaller.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • akadmon
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. akadmon,
    Aug 17, 2012 8:22 AM   in reply to Hal P Anderson
    Report

    Thanks for the answers. I'm still a little confused. What exactly does LR edit if not pixels? Does the Spot Removal tool, as an example, not move pixels around?

     

    Regarding disk space, it's not as cheap as you think, when you factor in the need for backups. One TB worth of stuff effectively requires you to have three 1TB drives (at roughly $100 these days): one for originals, one extra for onsite and one more for offsite backup. For a shutter happy person who doesn't do photography for a living, this starts to add up quickly

     

    As for converting to jpegs, I use PS almost exclusively for panos (some of which get up to 1GB is size as TIFFs). It's easy enough to redo them if I need to (I still have the original RAWs with whatever edits I've done in LR in preparation for sending them to PS), so that's why jpegs work for me. Besides, it's not like I'm going to sell them panos - they're there for me to look at them and get transported back to the place where they were taken

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • -Agfaclack-
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. -Agfaclack-,
    Aug 17, 2012 8:47 AM   in reply to akadmon
    Report

    pixel editing edits the data of the pixel (for example the RGB values)... parametric editors leave the pixel data alone and only record the changes you make to that pixel as parameters.... that´s it in short.

     

    of course when you render an image (export to JPG or TIF etc.) the pixels appearance will be changed.
    the parameters will be used to create a new pixel in the exported file. but the original pixels are not touched!

     

    LR was created for that kind of operation.... photoshop not.

     

    http://dpbestflow.org/image-editing/image-editing-overview

     

    http://dpbestflow.org/image-editing/parametric-image-editing

     

    http://dpbestflow.org/image-editing/pixel-editing

     

    http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/non_destructive_imaging.pdf

     

    i don´t know how easy you think it is to rewrite a program but what you wish will not happen the next few years.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Jeff Schewe
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Jeff Schewe,
    Aug 17, 2012 9:25 AM   in reply to akadmon
    Report

    akadmon wrote:

     

    Thanks for the answers. I'm still a little confused. What exactly does LR edit if not pixels? Does the Spot Removal tool, as an example, not move pixels around?

     

    LR records the instruction set of all of your image adjustments–including your spot healing and storers it as metadata. None of your raw image "pixels" are actually effected unless or until you either export or open the images in Photoshop. Once processed into a gamma encoded RGB color space, they are no longer raw images–which in essence is a single channel of image data not yet a color file–but now a 3 channel color image of pixels.

     

    Photoshop has a concept of metadata editing...Adjustment Layers, but your base rendered image in Photoshop is by nessicity going to be much bigger than a raw file.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • akadmon
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. akadmon,
    Aug 17, 2012 8:51 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe
    Report

    Thanks to Agfaclack for the links, and thanks Mr. Schewe for a further elucidation. I think I'm beginning to understand the problem .

     

    I have one last question. Would it be possible to do image stitching (i.e., panoramas) in a future version of LR? I suppose the answer is no (this requires layers, right, something that LR does not/cannot do), but maybe I'm wrong.

     
    |
    Mark as:
Actions

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points