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Cannot update Camera Raw from 6.7 to 7.1

May 30, 2012 12:22 PM

Tags: #camera_raw #camera_raw_6.7 #camera_raw_7.1
  Latest reply: Yammer, Oct 11, 2012 9:56 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 19, 2012 5:32 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    > "working" is not the same as full backwards compatibility testing on each platform and OS versions that CS5/5.5 worked

     

    Jeff, the simple explanation is that during compilation the piece of code that checks how ACR is invoked is either compiled in or not using compile time preprocessor flags

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 19, 2012 6:57 PM   in reply to deejjjaaaa

    Regardless of the flags, the fact is that backwards compatibility testing and offering official "support" is different than the plug-in "maybe working" in CS5...for example there is no longer a 32-bit version of Photoshop CS6 for Mac. Bridge is now also 64-bit. So, Mac Camera Raw 7.x is a 64-bit only binary. Are you suggesting that letting ACR 7 work in the CS5 32-bit Mac binary is a simple recompile?

     

    Face it, the Adobe policy is based upon technical issues of backwards compatibility as well as not giving away new features and functions for nothing. Could ACR 6.x keep getting new cameras added? Yes, but then it's a branch in the code that substantially complicates the development. The policy of only offering free updates to currently shipping software is a pretty long standing policy since the begining of Camera Raw in Photoshop 7 in 2003–almost a decade.

     

    And again the root cause of the problem users of older software buying new cameras and not getting support could be resolved by the camera makers adopting a standard like DNG. And again Adobe offers a free (as in no cost but downloading) DNG Converter solution for people with new cameras an old software. It's either that or upgrade to the most recent version of Photoshop.

     

    Let's see, photographhers are happy to spend money on new cameras but hate spending money on software upgrades...do you not see the disconnect there? Penny wise, pound foolish.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 5:15 AM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    "photographhers are happy to spend money on new cameras but hate spending money on software upgrades" That is not the point.

     

    Suppose I am not a photographer I am an enthusiastic graphic designer NOT A PRO.

     

    I was so excited about CS6 features and decided the today to buy CS6 Production Premium for 1,899 USD.

     

    My computer is ok and meets all the requirements, but this December for holidays I decide give me a huge present a supercomputer, in order to enjoy more my Adobe products.

     

    I unpacked, installed, patched etc, and now I am ready to install my adobe products, but surprise Adobe products don’t install because the only operating system supported was the previous one and not only that, my new processors are not supported either.

     

    Adobe decides to support my new software and my new hardware in the new CS7 (just for 400 USD more), because my obsolete and OLD software CS6 is not supported more. Just few months after, how do you feel happy?

     

    Worts, if you dont want to upgrade and pay them because they force you,  then you cannot use your CS6 software with your new hardware at all, the other option is a workarround with a converter working in you old platform and you lose the capabilities of you hw.

     

    It is not a money issue it is a support issue.

     

    What do you think if similar situation happens with your car, your operating system, etc. I think 5 years should be the cycle life of a product at least.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 5:33 AM   in reply to MPpulido

    I wondered if it was possible to separate the raw file decoding process from the raw conversion process. I suppose the nearest comparison would be an audio or video codec. The raw converter (the thing you see/use) calls the codec in order to open the raw files. Only the codec would need to be updated.

     

    Without knowing anything about raw formats or the way Adobe software is written, I can only guess if this can be done. But, in principle, I don't see why not. Of course, this would have to be a new thing, and so it wouldn't help anyone with existing software.

     

    Meanwhile, people have got the DNG Converter, which is free, and is updated just as often as Camera Raw. It converts your mysterious proprietary raw files into something which can be read by any raw converter which supports the well-established DNG standard, including Photoshop CS (with ACR 2.3–2.4), CS2, CS3, CS4 and CS5. It's what our cameras should be providing in the first place.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 6:25 AM   in reply to deejjjaaaa

    The standalone literally did not see the files.  Mind you, I tried it on both the T7400 and the W701.  The converter asks you for source files and you browse to it, naturally, and it sees the folder, you open the folder and nada within.

     

    The recurring retort seems to be "well, you bought a new camera so you shouldn't complain about the software"...please understand that these camera makers do supply a CD with software that will handle the files.  I must have at least 15 cameras, and if I were to use the CD for each and every one of them, my computers would be so jammed up with software I don't really want..  My initial confusion is that I never encountered a camera raw format that Adobe couldn't handle before.  THAT was the confusion.  And, I had initially bought CS5.1 Extended, and then went ahead and bought the whole CS5 Production Premium, and this is after using Photoshop since Photoshop 4, and I am not talking CS4, I'm talking about every upgrade since Photoshop 4.

     

    As computers and processors progressed, so did I.  But we all know what a big bother it is to uninstall any of Adobe products.  You simply do not get out all the files without a really good removal tool and then you have to sit there and carefully pick through the registry entries.  Adobe is not the only one, of course.

     

    Yesterday I uninstalled previous versions after installing CS6 Extended on the laptop.   What do you know?  All of a sudden the camera raw 7.1 patch application wasn't there.  I had to do it again.  I cannot recall at this point whether it was before or after I started putting the plug-ins back in.

     

    Someone said they had no problem with the T4i file on the standalone converter. There is a possibility the problem lies in some configuration that is present in both of my main machines.  But I'm thinking it is more likely that since that person (I'd have to find the post) already had CS6 installed before trying the DNG standalone with that file, the results do not equal comparing apples to apples.

     

    I wouldn't panic about buying a new camera though.  As long as the camera-maker provides software that covers their new file (and they all do) you will still be able to convert  the file from the new camera to use whatever version of Photoshop you have.  That is just not the route I wanted to take.

     

    Some of my cameras are Nikons, some are Canon, some are Pentax, some are Sony, and I even have an Olympus thrown in there.  No way I want all of those extra programs on my machines!!!  LOL!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 6:47 AM   in reply to IndyMcDuff

    IndyMcDuff wrote:

     

    The standalone literally did not see the files.  Mind you, I tried it on both the T7400 and the W701.  The converter asks you for source files and you browse to it, naturally, and it sees the folder, you open the folder and nada within…

     

     

    That may be your problem right there! 

     

    Don't open the folder, just point the DNG Converter to it.  The stand-alone DNG Converter works on folders, not on  individual files.

     

    Point it to a folder and it will convert all eligible files within it.  Be advised that it will convert truly every eligible raw file in the folder containing raw data.  That means that if you happen to have DNG files from a previous sessions, the DNG Converter will re-convert those and overwrite the files when it creates new DNGs so you will lose any adjustments you were keeping in metadata in those particular DNGs.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 6:47 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel,

     

    My Precision T7400 doesn't have SSD, it is the Lenovo (IBM) W701 that has the SSD C drive.  That is a laptop.  Actually, it is a laptop designed for photographers, in my mind, as it has a lovely little Wacom tablet built right in.  The Precision T7400 has (4) 1.5 TB HD's installed onboard as 1.5TB is all Windows 7 can handle.  These HD's are all backed up to Fantom externals.

     

    Just for the heck of it, when I get the chance, I'm going to install the software that came with the T4i onto a Sony Vaio laptop that does not have any of the Adobe products installed.  I will look at the software and see exactly what conversion utilities there are.  Easy enough to move the converted file to one of the machines that have Adobe on it.

     

    If it has this ability, I will report it, so that people don't get thier knickers in a twist  when thinking about purchasing a new camera....and then mentally adding the cost of the upgraded Photoshop to the price of that camera.

     

    Or you know what?  I'm going to just stick it onto the Hewlett Packard tower that sits behind me....that is easier.

     

    I'll report back.

     

    Indy

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 6:49 AM   in reply to station_two

    That is an excellent point.  But now I cannot test it as I have already installed CS6 Extended!!!!  I kept to the legal number of installations, so it isn't on any other machine. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 6:52 AM   in reply to IndyMcDuff

    Alternatively, you can drop individual files on a shortcut of the DNG Converter on your desktop (or any other convenient directory).

     

    But if you're inside the DNG Converter, then just point it to the folder containing the raw files.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 6:57 AM   in reply to IndyMcDuff

    IndyMcDuff wrote:

     

    That is an excellent point.  But now I cannot test it as I have already installed CS6 Extended!!!!…

     

    So what?   ???

     

    Sorry, I'm not following you.    The DNG Converter 7.1 will still work the same whether you have Photoshop installed or not.

     

       ???  

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 7:32 AM   in reply to station_two

    Okay, I will test that as well.  As I've said, it could be a configuration issue.  I'll check it all out.

     

    As for the Canon software that came with it:  It sees the image instantly, comes with rudimentary editing...and I am now beginning to see why Canon and Nikon are not so eager to provide these things to Adobe.

     

    Instead of blaming anyone for anything, take note of what I'm writing:

     

    It seems that Canon wants you to join a sort of "cloud" thing.  I didn't join, I do not know if fees are involved, but it would be fair to guess there are fees...even Adobe now dangles carrots for you to pay monthly instead of buying the software....so the Canon software lets you batch-convert to jpeg, and/or TIFF 8 bit or 16 bit, but no DNG.  We all know that TIFF 16 bit are large files but as close to RAW as you can get.  When the files are done converting (there are 65 of them...and I let it do all 65 just to get a time idea as the Hewlett Packard is rather a standard machine) and then bring the converted files into Adobe.  I was able to install CS5 Extended onto that machine as I had disabled it here.  Of course, using the Adobe standalone would be far preferable than going TIFF...but the reason I am testing is because I elected to keep the embedded files.

     

    One seriously has to wonder, if it isn't to get you to pay monthly for a cloud site, why DNG is not in that batch conversion menu.  Is this the way the suits are planning to corner the camera users?!?!  There are SO many people shooting today with so little knowledge of any of this stuff, that they might just go ahead and sign up with the camera maker cloud thingy.

     

    I'm glancing behind me every few seconds and the TIFF images are showing up just fine in Bridge.  When it is through, I will install 7.1 standalone on that computer and test the conversion using the folder....

     

    At least it is a good reference for anyone facing similar issues.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 8:27 AM   in reply to station_two

    My point was that I wanted to see if my configuration with CS5.5 was fouling the standalone.  But I ***much to my annoyance*** did not even think of selecting the folder.  Why?  As it was a brand new camera...I fiddled with some of the slick little options they put in, which created some jpegs within the subfolders on the card.  Selecting the entire folder (or subfolder) without choosing files just did not occur to me.  Dumb.  In my defense I can say I am a real blonde 

     

    The conversion to TIFF went smoothly and opened in Bridge Cs5.5 (or is it CS5.1 - gets confusing)  without an issue even with files embedded (needed to check that option).

     

    I then proceeded to download 7.1 standalone again, on the Hewlett Packard and chose the folder instead of looking for files.  I selected the option to embed the original RAW file.  That may seem dumb to non-professional photographers, but it isn't.  It makes for giant DNG files, but may become necessary for legal and copyright reasons. 

     

    The conversion, using the standalone and embedding the original RAW file...on the Hewlett Packard...for the T4i....went extremely fast, all 65 files, and opened in Bridge without a problem.  So the entire reason it didn't work before was that I had not pointed to the folder.

     

    It may be an extra step, but it doesn't take much time.  I am surprised at myself for not having tried the folder approach instead of individual files.

     

    I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but in the rapidly changing smaller device arena, a lot of manufacturers seem to be all using the mini port adapter now, and more and more I am finding that it is no longer necessary to label the USB cords that come with devices (Blackberry, Samsung Droid, cameras, GPS devices, etc.,).  In past years, if you traveled and had several small devices, you needed an extra bag just for adapters and USB cords.  Not so today.  Today, other than the Apple stuff, one cord just about covers all of those items.  I cannot see why, other than getting you to pay monthly, the camera makers do not all just go with DNG as an option in the menu and bingo you are done.

     

    The bottom line is that the standalone 7.1 DOES work with T4i's new .CR2, and you have to point to the subfolder that contains the raw images rather than look for files to make it work.

     

    And, Station Two, remember I said configuration problem?  That is why I wanted to test it under the same conditions.  A stand-alone is a stand-alone...that is why I had to see if it were MY particular configuration.

     

    I do thank all of you very wonderful people for your help.  Talking to one's self is pointless because sometimes we build mental roadblocks.  Chewing things over with like-minded people is always a huge plus.  So thanks for tweaking this old brain!  Blonde or not! 

     

    Indy

     

    Message was edited by: IndyMcDuff (noticed an improper punctuation).. ;)

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,482 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2012 8:18 PM   in reply to IndyMcDuff

    Don't feel bad.  That business where the dialog lets you select the folder but not the files (and does not actually show you the files) has caught a lot of folks off guard.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2012 1:09 PM   in reply to Sharity84078

    You can open the RAW files from a D3200 in the latest ViewNX2 which is free from Nikon.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 25, 2012 4:52 PM   in reply to Bobr267

    I am still dealing with the DNG converter, thanks Adobe for the converter, but no thanks at all for don't suppor CS5.5, I think I lose a lot of money in your products, I cannot open my RAW (without workarrounds)  files with your software, especifically CS5.5 photoshop exended.

     

    You know camera raw is a great plugin and you are forcing us to upgrade in order to have the version 7.1

     

    Why you dont sale Camera Raw as an independent product? mmm.... maybe I know.

     

    Marco

     

    PD. my recomendation, if you are a CS6 customer, be aware than maybe your next camera will be supported only in CS7, and you have to pay the updrage, if you are planing to upgrade your camera don't buy CS6 wait until CS7.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,482 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 25, 2012 7:13 PM   in reply to MPpulido

    Marco, you have paid for an upgrade to a new camera that became available after the previous version of the Adobe software was released.

     

    Why is it difficult to think that you need to pay for new software that became available after the camera came out to support it?

     

    Sure, it would be nice if Adobe was kind to existing users, but since they don't really face customers going to the (non-existent) competition, they can clearly make more money selling you new software.

     

    But it's not all bad - don't look now but there ARE some very nice new features and enhanced image quality in the new version that alone make it worth paying for.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 25, 2012 8:09 PM   in reply to MPpulido

    MPpulido wrote:

     

    You know camera raw is a great plugin and you are forcing us to upgrade in order to have the version 7.1

     

    You are not being forced...you are being encouraged to upgrade to a superior raw processing output. That's why the engineers keep advancing the art.

     

    You can keep using DNG Converter (which allows people using as far back as Photoshop CS) that allows free backwards compatibility. Sure, you're pissed because in order to get the best, most recent raw processing you need to upgrade to Photoshop CS6 and ACR 7. This has been the policy since ACR was first released in Photoshop 7. You want the new stuff? Pay up, otherwise use the free DNG Converter...(which BTW, Adobe is under zero obligation to provide)

     

    Really, you aren't going to get much sympathy from current users of Photoshop CS6 and ACR 7. Really, the new version is worth the upgrade price by itself.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 2:27 AM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Yeah, pay up like the rest of us did.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 2:05 PM   in reply to station_two

    how much did you paid, i paid more than 18 hundred bucks 10 months ago for the CSC5.5 production premium suit

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,482 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 2:26 PM   in reply to MPpulido

    What's your point, MP?  That you bought a lot of valuable software?  That you waited until near the end of a release cycle to do so?

     

    There are those of us who have given Adobe that much and more.  If you want to play, you have to pay.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 5:06 PM   in reply to MPpulido

    MPpulido wrote:

     

    how much did you paid, i paid more than 18 hundred bucks 10 months ago for the CSC5.5 production premium suit...

     

    Like any other honest, mere mortal, I've been paying full price for each upgrade to a new version of Photoshop since I started using it a decade ago or so.

     

    I also paid full price for Adobe Illustrator, Adobe InDesign and Adobe Acrobat Pro, and I only upgraded them as my needs warranted.

     

    What I have not done is fall pray to the mindless buying into a "suite" concept.

     

    The "suite" concept is an invention of Adobe marketing and bean-counting types.  Inconsistency between or among applications in the artificial "suites" should come as no surprise.  The engineering teams are totally independent of each other, they are not only in different buildings but in different cities and states of the American Union, even in different countries.  The fact that they have little if any communication among them is highlighted by requests occasionally made in these forums by top Adobe engineers to let the other teams know when there are problems in one application that impact our workflow in another one.

     

    If you bought into the suite gimmick, I can see why you are upset at being faced with a major expenditure just to upgrade to the latest version of ACR now.  That was your choice when you fell for the suite concept.  Caveat emptor.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 6:07 PM   in reply to station_two

    All of You are right, it was my mistake, I took the choice to buy that suite, because I am impressed by the quality of adobe products, I am still impressed but I use to have another levels of support on mayor software producer like oracle, the support life for their product are almost 10 years.

     

    I was misinformed and it was my fault, for my a plugin compared with the whole suit is just a minor patch. But in adobe world is is not, again my fault.

     

    Now I am feeling worst, because the subscription option is from my point of view the best option but I didn't took it.

     

    But as you commented I don't need the whole suite as I don't need a subscription to all products, if I have an option to take a subscription only for photoshop and camera raw of course by a fraction of the price sure I will take it, but again what should I pay for a full hotel if I only require a room.

     

    I need your advice, what is the cheapest way to have camera raw 7.1 or 7.2 and future cs6 upgrades for camera raw; as you know I have cs5.5 production premium and I don't require the full upgrade to cs6.

     

    I really appreciate your help.

     

    And my advice. Was not for experts as you, but for newbies like me. I know I had to wait  5 months go get cs6 and not cs5.5 but nothing to do now.

     

     

    Marco.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 10:56 PM   in reply to MPpulido

    Marco,

     

    To be even more frank, I have been paying for the Photoshop upgrades after Photoshop 10.x ("CS3") only in order to get the latest version of ACR.  I do not need any of the Photoshop features beyond those of Ps 10.x.  I thought I was going to stick with that version for ever.

     

    Then came some great advances and new features in ACR 5.x, so I upgraded to Photoshop 11.x ("CS4") just to get the latest ACR.

     

    When Photoshop 12.x ("CS5") came out, I was totally underwhelmed, and ACR 6.x didn't move me to upgrade at all.

     

    Then came the amazing rendering of raw files in ACR 7.x, and I jumped at the opportunity to upgrade to Photoshop CS5.1 with the promise of a free upgrade to Photoshop CS6 just a few weeks later.  That's how I ended up with Photoshop 13.0.1 and ACR 7.2RC1 for the single price of the Photoshop CS5 upgrade.

     

    Camera support is not an issue for me, as my older cameras are already supported and my newer ones shoot DNGs natively anyway.

     

    The subscription concept is a terrible idea from my point of view.  I find the mere thought of committing to paying a monthly tribute to Adobe for the rest of my life simply abhorrent.  That's worse than the suite concept.

     

    Adobe has ceased to be in the business of selling software applications.   In order to survive, the corporation must be in the business of selling software upgrades--or rope its customers into paying the monthly Adobe protection fee in perpetuity.

     

    Unfortunately you cannot upgrade from a whole suite to a single point application, so you are stuck in that respect.

     

    If I were in your shoes, I'd find myself with two choices:  buying a full version of Photoshop that I can upgrade on its own in the future, or buy a full version of Lightroom that I can also upgrade individually. As I neither like nor use Lightroom, I'd go for an individual perpetual license to Photoshop.

     

    Realistically I do not need any upgraded new version of any the Adobe applications.  If it weren't for ACR, I'd still be using Photoshop 10.x ACR is worth the $200 upgrade price.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 2, 2012 4:44 PM   in reply to MPpulido

    I'm with you MPpulido. You're the only person on here with an ounce of common sense.

    The way the average consumer in the digital age has been turned into a sad techno junky as if its laudable or desirable is pathetic.

    Software, mobile phone, computer and camera manufacturers are constantly feeding off each others developments to justify the latest upgrade.

    To suggest this is done in the interests of "art" or for the benefit of the consumer is chronically naive.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,482 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 2, 2012 4:59 PM   in reply to cromwell99

    So what, the high tech companies should just all go out of business?  They've already sold one to virtually everyone who's buying.  You're saying that should be good enough.  What do they do after that?  Just stop?

     

    You're neglecting to acknowledge that there are new and better things being done, which are valuable and the creators deserve to be paid for them.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 2, 2012 4:59 PM   in reply to cromwell99

    Thanks For your comments, affected previously, now and in the future, when upgrade their cameras, join us together to at least ask for respect and support.

     

    That is why open source is computing strongly, Linux, g I m p are in the battle to get loyal customer because their products, and not for the "good will".

     

    I qualify adobe products as excelents but the support and sales tactics are not with their customers.

     

    I am going to skip 2 or 3 new releases in order to pay the same amount for CS9 upgrade as soon it will be available. But before pay the upgrade, I should be sure than my camera is supported in that version.

     

    I am not going to pay the upgrade to release 6,7,8 no way.

     

    BTW, it is not the money I don't like to be forced by a company that I am already his. Customer, that I already pay full price for one of the mos complete suites and just after 10 months of usage. No way.

     

    Marco

     

    I am containing shooting raw with my t4i, thinking in moving to a full frame 5d mark III. Editing and exporting with DFP to PS now later who knows.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 2, 2012 5:04 PM   in reply to MPpulido

    As you notice, I am writing from my "new iPad" sorry but it is changing some words. Btw, this is my 3rd iPad after the 1, 2 because I liked not because I was forced. :-)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 2, 2012 5:33 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    64 Noel Carboni, Have you really stopped to think about what you're saying?

    I have just sat through watching some developer talk about a new focussing tool in CS6. He called it something like "a toy model effect" - laughable. Has nobody thought to tell him how crap this is....that view camera operators knew about this yonks ago and avoided it like the plague.....and for good reason.

    There is nothing new under the sun and avarice by the digital age being passed off as "genius" by geeks is a sad reflection of just how gullible some of us are.

    I forget which version of Photoshop missed out "contact sheet". This was always useful and the developers knew by withdrawing it it would - in itself - justify an upgrade down the line.

    Now then ask yourself, was this "genius" or avarice?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,482 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Oct 2, 2012 7:19 PM   in reply to cromwell99

    I think about everything I write, yes.  Thank you for asking.

     

    I don't fault people for wishing they could get more for their money - we all want that.  I even sang the same song once, until I educated myself on what's available and really did think about how things work.  Then I realized how ridiculous that position is.

     

    No one's making the software you bought last year work worse than it did last year on your computer from last year.  You're getting all the value you paid for, and you are still able to use it this year and from now on.  You even get to use the brand new releases of DNG converter for free, so you don't have to worry about new cameras coming out that your current software does not support.

     

    But if you want to play with the new features in the newest releases you've got to pay.  Where is the fault in that?

     

    You call it greed, I call it what the market will bear.

     

    It's not like those who have bought the previous version are out in the cold.  You get deeply discounted upgrade pricing if you'd like to keep current.  And, if you were so naive as to buy the last version within a month of the new release, they give you a free upgrade.  What, would you have them extend that to 1 full year of free upgrades?

     

    Let me ask you this, Cromwell:  Would you consider working for the next year for free - doing the same work you've been doing?  After all, you have already been paid for doing it this year.

     

    In turn I invite you to think.  It doesn't hurt.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 8, 2012 7:39 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Well, Carboni, thanks for the prompt.....and you're right it does not hurt to think so please; practice what you preach.

    My point about certain tools holds true and what do you know - "Contact Sheet" is back on CS6, amazing!! I notice you didn't choose to "think" about this point but Adobe have, WOW!!

    Why is it so painful to you to merely admit that it was unnecessary for Adobe to remove this feature in the first place?

    Surely a bit of honesty wouldn't hurt, would it?

     

     

    Recently I bought a new Canon Camera and the Raw files wouldn't open in either CS4 or Lightroom ( I expected this) so got upgrades ........no problem until I realised that these are not compatible with something called "Snow Leopard"

    As well as my my Mac Pro I have an I Mac which is another cat - LION. "So", I ask the expert, "I'll put LION on my Mac Pro?" "No" he says, "you need to get MOUNTAIN LION!" FFS, how many bloody cats are there?

    Passing the Apple Store a few days later I chatted to a friendly "genius" who assured me that I could do this on line via "App Store" but I'd first need to get the latest version of "SNOW LEOPARD".

    Back home I realise that there is no "App store" on my Mac Pro 10.5.8 and that the OS upgrades for SNOW LEOPARD start at 6.1 and I need 6.0!

    I need MOUNTAIN LION but cannot do this without first upgrading SNOW LEOPARD to a cat inbetween but I have to do this in stages and one of the upgrades necessary is not available.

    Naturally I'm now losing the will to live .....all I want to do is get the benefit of the improved software and higher spec camera on my hugely powerful Mac Pro which is not even five years old.

    There is probably a way through this irritating mess but as a consumer why shouldn't I expect that something that cost several thousand pounds wont become virtually useless after I get home from a long holiday?

    Additionally, why shouldn't the consumer expect to be able to easily upgrade a machine which was sold with the promise that this was one of its USP's?

    Of course, all these upgrades promise "awesome new features" "greater stability" etc. etc. but the average consumer is not aided as much by all these new features as you imagine.

    If upgrading causes as much problems as I have encountered and all within such a short period surely even somebody as obtuse as yourself might realise that "upgrades" and "compatibility" is primarily designed to justify the outlay......and not to make our lives easier.

    I'm not a luddite, I have benefitted as much as anyone from the switch away from analogue but some of the changes over encoding and software features are frankly just a marketing ploy.

     

    We buy, we upgrade, we play around, we get used to what we know....we go on a sabbatical, lovely. We get home get a new bit of kit and everything you knew kicks up stink....followed by days of wasted effort and frustration.......so you buy, upgrade, download,

    listen to geeks  - even they aren't up to speed with the changes - and after an exhausting labyrinthine journey (that isn't over yet) somebody gives me a lecture on pricing policy. Give over.

    Just how cheap do you think my time is?

     
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  • Victoria Bampton
    5,302 posts
    Apr 1, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 12:02 AM   in reply to cromwell99

    cromwell99 wrote:

     

    Recently I bought a new Canon Camera and the Raw files wouldn't open in either CS4 or Lightroom ( I expected this) so got upgrades ........no problem until I realised that these are not compatible with something called "Snow Leopard"

     

    Both CS6 and Lightroom 4 ARE compatible with Snow Leopard.  You need to be updated to 10.6.8.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 4:27 AM   in reply to cromwell99

    cromwell99 wrote:

     

    Recently I bought a new Canon Camera and the Raw files wouldn't open in either CS4 or Lightroom ( I expected this) so got upgrades ........no problem until I realised that these are not compatible with something called "Snow Leopard"

    As well as my my Mac Pro I have an I Mac which is another cat - LION. "So", I ask the expert, "I'll put LION on my Mac Pro?" "No" he says, "you need to get MOUNTAIN LION!" FFS, how many bloody cats are there?

    Passing the Apple Store a few days later I chatted to a friendly "genius" who assured me that I could do this on line via "App Store" but I'd first need to get the latest version of "SNOW LEOPARD".

    Back home I realise that there is no "App store" on my Mac Pro 10.5.8 and that the OS upgrades for SNOW LEOPARD start at 6.1 and I need 6.0!

    I need MOUNTAIN LION but cannot do this without first upgrading SNOW LEOPARD to a cat inbetween but I have to do this in stages and one of the upgrades necessary is not available.

    Naturally I'm now losing the will to live .....all I want to do is get the benefit of the improved software and higher spec camera on my hugely powerful Mac Pro which is not even five years old.

    There is probably a way through this irritating mess but as a consumer why shouldn't I expect that something that cost several thousand pounds wont become virtually useless after I get home from a long holiday?

    Additionally, why shouldn't the consumer expect to be able to easily upgrade a machine which was sold with the promise that this was one of its USP's?

    Of course, all these upgrades promise "awesome new features" "greater stability" etc. etc. but the average consumer is not aided as much by all these new features as you imagine.

    If upgrading causes as much problems as I have encountered and all within such a short period surely even somebody as obtuse as yourself might realise that "upgrades" and "compatibility" is primarily designed to justify the outlay......and not to make our lives easier.

    I'm not a luddite, I have benefitted as much as anyone from the switch away from analogue but some of the changes over encoding and software features are frankly just a marketing ploy.

     

    We buy, we upgrade, we play around, we get used to what we know....we go on a sabbatical, lovely. We get home get a new bit of kit and everything you knew kicks up stink....followed by days of wasted effort and frustration.......so you buy, upgrade, download,

    listen to geeks  - even they aren't up to speed with the changes - and after an exhausting labyrinthine journey (that isn't over yet) somebody gives me a lecture on pricing policy. Give over.

    Just how cheap do you think my time is?

    Shouldn't you be complaining about this on an Apple forum?   Sheesh.

     

    M

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 5:01 AM   in reply to Victoria Bampton

    VICTORIA, Yes, thanks, I know this now........ but getting there from 10.5.8 is not straightforward.

     
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  • Victoria Bampton
    5,302 posts
    Apr 1, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 5:04 AM   in reply to cromwell99

    cromwell99 wrote:

     

    VICTORIA, Yes, thanks, I know this now........ but getting there from 10.5.8 is not straightforward.

     

    Ah, I see.  You said they weren't compatible with Snow Leopard, which is 10.6, so to update to 10.6.8 would be quite simple.  If you're on 10.5.8 (Leopard, no Snow), then yes, it's a more complex upgrade path.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 5:17 AM   in reply to Mollysnoot

    MOLLYsnoot, making a general point that the computing/digital industries change things and because of ensuing compatibility issues there is a consequential chain reaction of purchases.

    The perception is that this is not to the benefit of the consumer.

    I would have thought that much would be obvious.

    Experience suggests that Adobe do more than most to protect the consumer's rights.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 5:27 AM   in reply to Victoria Bampton

    Victoria, .....OMG, I missed out a cat!!!

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,482 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 8:17 AM   in reply to cromwell99

    cromwell99 wrote:

     


    Naturally I'm now losing the will to live

     

    Don't feel bad - it's not just a Macintosh thing.

     

    Windows 8 is going to do that to a lot of people.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 8:33 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I don't doubt - and THIS is my point - if computer/camera/software manufacturers were made to sing from the same hymn sheet with primary regard for the consumer then these problems would be minimised.

    It isn't surprising that they dont because they're out for No. 1.

    It doesn't improve my humour or sense of fair play when I read trite platitudes such as: "If you wanna play you gotta pay" because it starts from the premise that the market dictates to the customer and not vice-versa.

    Any thoughtful response would recognise that this is unfair.

     

    Good luck.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,482 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 8:34 AM   in reply to cromwell99

    This is the world we live in.  Last I looked "fairness" isn't part of the laws of physics.

     

    What would you suggest?  Government regulation of the software industry?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 8:39 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Exchange the use of the word "fair" for "consumer rights" - Yes, some sort of over-arching regulation is required but unless the consmers flex their brains rather than their plastic nothing will happen.

    Forums like this should be more pro-active in forcing the hands of manufacturers.

     
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