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Why do my images look soft in Bridge?

Explorer ,
Aug 28, 2012 Aug 28, 2012

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Hi, I'm a Photo Mechanic user, but I'm having problems with their latest release (PM5), so I thought I'd check out the latest version of Bridge to see if it can serve the same function. I'm having problems getting sharp previews. When I hit the spacebar to view an image full screen it looks blurred. If I click on the image it then becomes sharp (it stays the same size, just redraws itself and becomes sharp). Is this a bug or a feature? Thanks.

Mac Mini i7 2.7 16Gb Ram

OS X 10.8.1

Eizo CG275W

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Explorer , Aug 28, 2012 Aug 28, 2012

Hmm, I think the blurred/click/sharp thing is probably a feature....

What seems like a bug is that half the time I hit the spacebar I get a blank grey screen rather than a full screen preview...

Another question.... Photo Mechanic can preview Raw/Jpeg pairs as a single image (so ratings, keywords etc. are applied to both)... Can Bridge do that?

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Explorer ,
Aug 28, 2012 Aug 28, 2012

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Hmm, I think the blurred/click/sharp thing is probably a feature....

What seems like a bug is that half the time I hit the spacebar I get a blank grey screen rather than a full screen preview...

Another question.... Photo Mechanic can preview Raw/Jpeg pairs as a single image (so ratings, keywords etc. are applied to both)... Can Bridge do that?

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Guest
Aug 28, 2012 Aug 28, 2012

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What you are seeing is the video card taking its sweet time to render the image.  Check to see if you have the latest drivers.

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Explorer ,
Aug 28, 2012 Aug 28, 2012

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Let me try to explain differently. I'm using a 2560 x 1440 monitor. I'm browsing a folder of 1800 x 1200 jpegs in Bridge. When I hit the spacebar the images preview at actual size. But they are soft. I can wait forever, but the images are still soft. If I click on an image then it become sharp (it remains the same size) - I can then arrow through the images and they all appear sharp (each one takes about a second to resolve into sharpness). I guess this is normal, but it seems odd to me (to have to click on the image to see it sharp). Photo Mechanic does a much better job at showing whether your images are in focus or not.

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Guest
Aug 28, 2012 Aug 28, 2012

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Don't think that is normal.  Two things to consider.  If you have thumbnails set to embedded (2nd toolbar 1st icon) then they might be soft depending on how critical you are.  The other options are HQ thumbnails, but take up a lot more HD space.

Also, sometimes all the thumbs are fuzzy and you need to trash cache.  For one folder go to Tools/Cache/purge cache for xxx folder.

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Explorer ,
Aug 28, 2012 Aug 28, 2012

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Thank you for trying to help. I've tried your suggestions, but no change - I still need to click on the full screen preview to see it rendered sharply. In the menu you refer to ('thumnail quality and preview generation') I have two items ticked: 'Always High Quality' and 'Generate 100% Previews'. I've purged the cache (via Cache Preferences) several times.

Whilst I can see a sharp image by clicking on it in full screen mode, that's not how I want to work. I'd rather see a sharp image in standard mode (e.g. the Essential workspace, but with windows dragged around so the Preview window is nice and large). This seems to be beyond Bridge - the preview image here is resolutely fuzzy.

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Guest
Aug 28, 2012 Aug 28, 2012

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Not normal.  Did you check you video card driver?  Go to advanced preferences and check use software rendering.  If your video card is underpowered that should help.

I use embedded thumbnails only and have never seen this problem.

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Mentor ,
Sep 06, 2012 Sep 06, 2012

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Bridge isn't too good at doing sharp full-screen previews. It uses an odd algorithm to produce a cached folder of preview jpegs based on the longest side of the primary display. This can often mean that the cached preview has to be resized before it is displayed, which seems to defeat the object, in my opinion.

Your case is an unusual one. Normally, camera images have to be downsampled for preview. In your case, they would actually have to be upsampled for your huge display (can you tell I'm jealous?). I would expect normal behaviour to be a preview the same as the original and a border around the preview, but if you are using Slideshow with Fit/Fill Screen, it may be making a hash of the upsampling. Try Full Screen with spacebar instead.

Either way, I doubt there's anything you can do about it, unless your display driver is somehow at fault (not a Mac guy, so no idea).

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Explorer ,
Sep 06, 2012 Sep 06, 2012

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Hi Yammer, my display is big, but not unusally so - it's a 27" Eizo CG275W (2560 x 1440).

After reading around online I've come to the conclusion that slightly soft previews are normal in Bridge.

For culling images I've gone back to using Photo Mechanic, which sharpens both thumbnails and previews (if these settings are checked in the preferences). - As a photograpaher, I need sharp previews when reviewing a shoot so that I can check images for critical sharpness.

Also, Bridge was buggy on my set up (Mac mini with AMD graphics) - often when I hit the spacebar for a full screen preview I would get a blank grey screen instead of a preview of the image.

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Mentor ,
Sep 06, 2012 Sep 06, 2012

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2560x1440 is a lot higher the most displays' resolutions I've ever come across. I use a 24" display which manages 1920x1200. Maybe my next display will break the 2000 mark.

Bridge has been occasionally known to mess up previews, but purging the selected image, or directory, or entire cache, and restarting Bridge usually sorts it out. Try Slideshow set to Centred and see if that's any better. Like I said, I always use the spacebar, mainly because it's quicker/easier.

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Guest
Sep 06, 2012 Sep 06, 2012

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elliot-n wrote:

For culling images I've gone back to using Photo Mechanic, which sharpens both thumbnails and previews (if these settings are checked in the preferences). - As a photograpaher, I need sharp previews when reviewing a shoot so that I can check images for critical sharpness.

Having Photo Mechanic sharpen thumbnails and previews doesn't this defeat the purpose of seeing what is sharp as shot?  If all images have the same degree of sharpening, or no sharpening at all, you are comparing apples to apples.  Seems like what you are doing is comparing images in PM that have been sharpened to those in Bridge that have not been sharpened, and then saying Bridge previews are soft.

Everyone has their own workflow but I would prefer to compare as shot pictures before fiddling with them to make them better and then comparing them.

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Explorer ,
Sep 06, 2012 Sep 06, 2012

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The previews in Bridge do not appear to me to be 'as shot'. They look mushy. In terms of sharpness, Photo Mechanic does a better job at showing me what the file will look like once it's opened in Photoshop. It gives a better preview of focus. And it is much faster than Bridge.

No big deal - I've given Bridge a good workout and I've discovered that it's not as good as Photo Mechanic for editing a shoot. I'll still use ACR and PS once I've made my edit.

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Mentor ,
Sep 06, 2012 Sep 06, 2012

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Curt Y wrote:


Having Photo Mechanic sharpen thumbnails and previews doesn't this defeat the purpose of seeing what is sharp as shot?  If all images have the same degree of sharpening, or no sharpening at all, you are comparing apples to apples.  Seems like what you are doing is comparing images in PM that have been sharpened to those in Bridge that have not been sharpened, and then saying Bridge previews are soft.

Everyone has their own workflow but I would prefer to compare as shot pictures before fiddling with them to make them better and then comparing them.

No, it's not what you think, Curt. I'm with Elliot on this one. Bridge's previews actually look softer than the original image in certain circumstances--which are determined by the original image size, the longest display resolution, and the display aspect ratio.

What SHOULD happen is that the preview for a 3:2 or 4:3 image is created at the same HEIGHT as a widescreen display. But it isn't. It is actually created at the same WIDTH as the display, and then shrunk to fit the display height on the fly (and not very well). Madness.

I created a suggestion to fix this on the Feedback website, but it's not proved very popular. Can anyone thinking this could be improved for photographers trying to assess image sharpness in Bridge (I would have thought an essential feature) please +1 the idea!

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/generate_monitor_size_previews_to_fit_in_bridg...

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Guest
Sep 06, 2012 Sep 06, 2012

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Yammer,

If reading correctly he says  "the preview image here is resolutely fuzzy", but the full scren image is sharp.  The preview should not have to be resampled?

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Mentor ,
Sep 06, 2012 Sep 06, 2012

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The way I read it, a full screen preview is soft. Clicking on the screen will change it to 100% preview, which is sharp. So it's the full-screen preview which is wrong.

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Explorer ,
Sep 06, 2012 Sep 06, 2012

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Yes - the full screen preview is soft. It becomes sharp when I click on it for 100% view.

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New Here ,
Dec 05, 2017 Dec 05, 2017

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Mine too! This is driving me crazy. I had it perfect in my old version on Bridge CS4, but just upgraded to CC and although it saved my old viewing preferences, it still looks blurry unless I click the magnifying glass at 100% over the full sized preview. I need my full size previews to be 100% not the thumbnails!

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Mentor ,
Sep 07, 2012 Sep 07, 2012

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Curt Y wrote:

The preview should not have to be resampled?

Agreed. It shouldn't, but it is. Let me give an example ...

Take a photograph which is 4200 x 2800 pixels (3:2) and a display which is 1680 x 1050 pixels (16:10). Bridge is set to "Generate Monitor-size Previews" for the best results.

* Bridge creates a cache Thumbnail of 256 x 170 pixels (256 wide by 2/3 of 256)

* Bridge creates a cache Preview of 1680 x 1120 pixels (display's longest side by 2/3)

* If set, Bridge also creates a cache 100% Preview of 4200 x 2800 pixels

Now, the full-screen cache preview (1680 x 1120) is taller than the display (1680 x 1050), so Bridge shrinks the preview to fit:

* Height becomes 1050 (reduced to 93.75%) to fit display height

* Width becomes 1575 (93.75% of 1680)

It is this last stage which causes the preview to go soft. It would make more sense to generate a cache Preview which fits within the display size in the first place.

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Guest
Sep 07, 2012 Sep 07, 2012

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I don't dispute your data, but when I think of a preview I think of the smaller one you see in the preview window.  Typically those are about 1/8 the screen size.  A full screen preview is a different issue as due to the much larger size any image softness is much more noticable.  I rarely use them, but then I am not a comercial photographer looking for the "best" shot.

I was wondering with Elliot's problem he says he gets a sharp full screen preview if he clicks on the image to change to 100%.  Why not make that the default view and perhaps then his images would be sharp?  Zoom changes with + and - and stays on last magnification used.

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Mentor ,
Sep 07, 2012 Sep 07, 2012

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Curt Y wrote:

I don't dispute your data, but when I think of a preview I think of the smaller one you see in the preview window.  Typically those are about 1/8 the screen size.  A full screen preview is a different issue as due to the much larger size any image softness is much more noticable.  I rarely use them, but then I am not a comercial photographer looking for the "best" shot.

I was wondering with Elliot's problem he says he gets a sharp full screen preview if he clicks on the image to change to 100%.  Why not make that the default view and perhaps then his images would be sharp?  Zoom changes with + and - and stays on last magnification used.

It doesn't matter if the preview is in a Bridge panel or full-screen, they both come from the same cache jpeg, contained in the 1024 directory tree.

On re-reading through the thread, it seems to me that there may be two issues here:

1. Bridge is having intermittent preview rendering problems. I've seen this myself in the past. It is usually fixed by purging the image/folder cache and restarting bridge.

2. The "Generate Monitor-size Previews" advanced setting may be causing the problem. The OP should try each setting (on and off), and purging a folder's cache to test the preview quality. Maybe a large display size is the problem; maybe a small cache preview is the problem.

You cannot lock full screen (spacebar) into 100% mode, it always defaults to Fit. Clicking on full-screen changes to 100%. You can change the click zoom to 200%, 400%, or 800% using the '+/-' keys, and this setting 'sticks' from one session to the next.

Setting Slideshow to Fill and using Ctrl-L is the best way to get representatively sharp full-screen previews, but they are cropped top and bottom, and only work well with Landscape format; Portrait format is far too cropped. So this is a poor workaround.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 07, 2012 Sep 07, 2012

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Curt Y wrote:

…when I think of a preview I think of the smaller one you see in the preview window.  Typically those are about 1/8 the screen size…

That will depend, on course, on how your Bridge workspace is configured.

In my case, the Preview panel just about fills one of my two 22" dual monitors by itself.

In this example the image preview itself is 1224 pixels wide by some 818 pixels high.  That's on a monitor set a a comfortable 1280 x 1024 display resolution, so I would say the Preview window itself covers a bit over 3/4 of the screen size, or 76+% of my screen size.

This is above and beyond the 1024 preview max the Bridge engineers were talking about here a few years ago.

See screen shot below.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 07, 2012 Sep 07, 2012

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Oooooooops!  Neglected to insert the image in my previous post.  Sorry.

Bridge CS4 workspace.png

See full-size image in new tab or window.

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New Here ,
Sep 16, 2012 Sep 16, 2012

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Ok, here goes... one's man opinion...

The reason the previews are soft has nothing to do with drivers or display card or anything. Chances are most will see this and not understand it when the image size and display resolution size are equal. In other words, take an image that is 1920x1200 and view on a monitor that is also set up with a screen resolution of 1920x1200. I think when either entering a slideshow or full screen preview, it isn't showing the full image but is using either Fit or Fill screen. I think this causes poor algorithms to be used. When one clicks once on the image to get 100% view, then the image and screen size are one to one and you do get sharp images. If you go to a slideshow pressing Control+L and click on the screen you not only get 100% but you pause the slideshow. So just press the spacebar to continue the slideshow. You will keep the benefit of the sharper 100% images.

I just think when Bridge is either using Fit or Fill screen, even if it could theoretically do that 100% when a screen resolution and image size are equal, that Bridge will show soft images. But no, I do not think its a driver issue or cache issue or anything else. I don't even think in this case you need monitor sized previews. Clicking to get a 100% view forces the image to be read. So really its nothing to do with Previews now does it...??!

Randal

By the way, I do also notice on even smaller than 1920x1200 screen rez images that I have to click to get to 100% view. I also notice it is like the application frame, so to speak, is increasing one pixel taller. So is this a mismatch from monitor to program with resolution? I don't know...

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Mentor ,
Sep 16, 2012 Sep 16, 2012

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This was explained in replies 7, 12 and 16; Bridge resamples the cached preview on the fly, and this is causing varying amounts of softness, depending on the dimensions of the display. I first pointed this out a year ago in this forum, and set up a feedback bug-fix request here http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/generate_monitor_size_previews_to_fit_in_bridg...

As the title says, if previews were actually designed to fit the display in the first place, then they wouldn't need to be resampled.

If you think something should be done about this, then please add your +1 to the list. I would have thought that this was essential for anyone reviewing a photographic shoot in Bridge (surely one of its best uses?), and assessing capture sharpness.

I imagine that, years ago, most people would have been previewing a 4:3 image on a 4:3 display, but I guess that most are viewing 4:3 or 3:2 images on a 16:10 or 16:9 display these days, so either Bridge needs a better size cache preview or a better FIT algorithm. Unfortunately, Adobe doesn't come here much, so the feedback forum is our best chance.

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/generate_monitor_size_previews_to_fit_in_bridg...

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New Here ,
Sep 17, 2012 Sep 17, 2012

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This was a problem going into CS3 and Bridge. I worked with some engineers at Adobe and we got this... but has now been swithed back to highly compressed jpg previews so you don't need such a large cache...

Quote I wrote in an email to an Adobe team member...

Gone is the "A new preference to enable High Quality Preview has been added to Bridge's Preferences > Advanced panel. When enabled, the preference addresses the problem of a soft or blurry preview appearing in the Preview panel and in Slideshow mode." which you so kindly made sure got into LR 3.2.1. Seems the softy previews are just back. Period.

The work around to just click to force 100% view works in full screen or slideshow. Seems all we can do for now. Adobe seems to want a smaller cache. They got it but it had to be at some expense. There is no option for High Quality Previews any longer.

Randal

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