Skip navigation
Currently Being Moderated

Aesthetic question: should landscape be straightened?

Sep 7, 2012 10:45 AM

I have a couple of vacation photos where I'm not sure whether the horizon should be straightened or not. There are really nice clouds in the shot, and they form a horizontal line across the image that isn't parallel to the line of the land. If I straighten to suit the clouds, the land is not straight and vice versa. It's no big deal but I was curious to see what others do with such a shot.  I'd welcome any comments...

 

hay.JPG

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 10:47 AM   in reply to acresofgreen

    I have always corrected to horizontal, if there are any visual indicators, such as water.

     

    Just my sense of aesthetics.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    21,318 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 11:38 AM   in reply to acresofgreen

    I'm late, but my opinion:  Yes, definitely, it's the right move to level the horizon.

     

    Thinking a bit outside the (crop) box, you COULD warp the sky so that the cloud tops look more level...

     

    OutsideTheCropBox.jpg

     

    This is probably more extreme than necessary, but I wanted to make it obvious.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 12:08 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Well, the surface of water is undeniable level, sure. 

     

    The problem is when—as in this particular example—you can't discern where the level surface of the water is.

     

    Assuming we're looking at a lake in this image, if the far edge of the lake is not a straight line that is exactly perpendicular to the lens, then that line should not be straight

     

    Imagine an extreme situation where the visible far edge of the lake on the left is closer to the observer and the lens while the lake extends farther away on the right-side of the image so that said right point is located much farther away, then the shoreline would appear to rise from left to right.

     

    A similar effect affects the overall line of the clouds, as those on the right are closer to the lens than the ones on the right.

     

    In this particular case, with no clearly vertical reference, and without the benefit of having observed the scene on the spot, I would tend to trust the atmosphere more as far as providing a natural horizontal line across a short segment at the bottom of the clouds smack in the middle of the image.

     

    The sloping middle clouds just look unnatural to me.

     

    I would say that in this case, it boils down to an artistic decision on the part of the photographer.

     

    That is my personal judgment.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 12:29 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Bill Hunt wrote:

     

    I have always corrected to horizontal, if there are any visual indicators, such as water…

     

    To illustrate what I said in my previous post, here's a clear example where the water provides no horizontal reference whatsoever:

     

    CraterLake_shoreline.png

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:16 PM   in reply to station_two

    And, as per the OP's question, what aesthetic choice would others make [to paraphrase]. My answer was predicated on what I would do.

     

    Hunt

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:20 PM   in reply to station_two

    .

    Your picture is littered with signs that it is level regardless of the shape of the shoreline. Look at the reflections. (And trees.)

     

     

    CraterLake_shoreline_verticals.png

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:18 PM   in reply to station_two

    I think that one can probably find over a billion examples of water, that, in a photograph, does not present any indication of a straight line. My response was predicated on the example shown, and not some image that might be found elsewhere.

     

    Hunt

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:20 PM   in reply to station_two

    The sloping middle clouds just look unnatural to me.

    Ah clouds. Not sure how many of them I have seen, that provide straight lines, or that match a horizon 100%. Maybe Joni Mitchell was correct in Both Sides Now?

     

    Hunt

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:26 PM   in reply to acresofgreen

    acresofgreen, I see your photo as tilted and I'd straighten it so the far edge of the water is horizontal.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:30 PM   in reply to acresofgreen

    Yes, this would be possible, but I decided from the start that I wouldn't change anything in the photos because they are merely souvenirs and I want them to be exactly as I saw them.

    Actually, I like Noel's suggestion, though that WOULD change things. Now, when you saw the lake (lovely, and especially with that sky), I assume that you leveled your gaze, but the camera had just a bit of sideways tilt in it.

     

    That is one reason that I like a viewfinder (whether optical, LCD or whatever), with a grid on it. Probably a hold over from my large format work. All of my 8 x 10's and 4 x 5's have such a grid (as do all of my Hassleblads and even most of my Nikons), and down to the Nikons, all have bubble levels, that I used.

     

    Just "old-school" I suppose.

     

    Now, Station_Two's lake image (nice also) does not give us a horizontal, to measure to. Reminds me of the 9th green in the golf course in my backyard. It is in a bowl, at the end of a box canyon. There are NO horizontals, and to find any useful vertical is almost impossible. Few golfers ever see the dramatic slope of that green, and almost never find the real break. A five-putt is not at all uncommon, and almost any putt from above the hole, will run completely off the green, down a hidden false-front, and into a ravine. Nothing to judge horizontal at all.

     

    Still, I like your "corrected" horizontal, and the clouds do not bother me in any way - but that is MY aesthetic.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     

    BTW - where was the photogrph done? The wheat almost rules out Colorado, but the lake and mountains lead me back to CO.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:43 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Bill Hunt wrote:

     

    Now, Station_Two's lake image ... to find any useful vertical is almost impossible.

     

     

    Didn't you see my post above? Station_two's image is littered with vertical references - the reflections.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:44 PM   in reply to conroy

    Conroy,

     

    No, I missed that. Thank you for the explanation.

     

    Appreciated,

     

    Hunt

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:49 PM   in reply to acresofgreen

    Looks familiar. River Forth?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:50 PM   in reply to acresofgreen

    Scotland?!? Thank you, and beautiful. Now I feel even worse about going to London at least twice per year, and NEVER making it to Scotland. Got to get out of the city.

     

    Appreciated,

     

    Hunt

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 2:28 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Bill,

     

    Your interlocutor misses the difference between horizontal and vertical references.  My post specifically addressed the lack of any horizontal reference as far as the water in that image is concerned.  Your comment in your reply was also very specific about horizontal lines in water in general.

     

    Of course that image is straight!  I straightened it myself! 

     

    Yes, I was referencing the OP image as not having any clear horizontal reference.  The trees are also not a guide in the vertical direction, but that wasn't mentioned at all in my post.

     

    A Cumulonimbus cloud does tend to have a fairly flat bottom dictated by the layers of pressure in the air of the atmosphere on which it rides and can be used as an indication of horizontality:

    300px-Anvil_shaped_cumulus_panorama_edit_crop.jpg

     

    Other types of clouds are not useful in that regard.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 3:00 PM   in reply to station_two

    Interlocutor.Dang! I looked all over PS for that filter!

     

    To the OP: Straighten the water line but first be sure you have corrected any lens distortion first.

     

    Second: Fix the blown out clouds.

     
    |
    Mark as:

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points