Basically, what he is saying is that there are two kinds of AVCHD which are distinguished by the way Premiere CS5.5 and CS6 react to them. He has christened them Benign PsF and Malignant PsF.
When you drag a Benign PsF clip onto the "New Item" icon in the Premiere project panel, the sequence that is created is the correct format for the clip, in particular the fact that it is progressive is recognised.
When you drag a Malignant PsF clip on the icon, the sequence that is created does not have the correct parameters and is always upper field first.
Progressive clips from both my Canon Legria HF S30, and my Sony V1E (as you know, I am in PAL land) both turn out to be Malignant. Premiere creates an AVCintra 100 50Hz UFF sequence for my Canon files! These are AVCHD, progressive (PsF), 25 fps, and around 21 mbps.
Correct recognition is achieved by R clicking on the clip and selecting Modify>Interpret Footage. Change the field order to Conform to "No Fields (Progressive)". An appropriate sequence can then be created.
He reckons from observation that the problem is widespread, affecting most if not all Canon AVCHD cameras, Sony 's AVCHD and NXCAM ranges, and some Panasonic cameras. He mentions the Panasonic AF100 and AG-HMC40 as producing Benign files. The problem is not a PAL problem, the writer is based in Florida, and the cameras he quotes are almost all N or S America models.
He argues that correct recognition is possible as Clipwrap can achieve this - unfortunately it is MAC only. Also Atomos have software called Stripper which can sort this out. He has had contacts with Adobe - he mentions a conversation with Carl Soule about this.
If this is correct, and these files have a problem with Premiere, then it is possible that the problems being experienced here have their origins in the same place.
He mentions the Panasonic AF100 and AG-HMC40 as producing Benign files.
That's because those cameras don't record PsF, but true progressive frames. They're not 'wrapped' in an interlaced format.
I'm not sure that relates to this issue, though. The HMC150 spanned clips have issues, the GH2 spanned clips do not. Both are Panasonic, both record true progressive frames (when shooting that way). But even my interlaced spanned clips (1080i/30) from the GH2 play just fine in CS6.
What would be really nice is if some one from Adobe could tell us they found / fixed the problem and it will be included in the next maintainace release - when ever that will be.
We could all then rest easy knowing it's coming instead of looking at each other wondering if Adobe have it fixed or not, or will ever fix it. It cleary used to work....
Anyone from Adobe care to comment?
Interesting stuff but for me anyway, it doesn't solve the spanned AVCHD multicam issue. I found I had mixed PsF and true progressive but using either just the true progressive or PsF interpreted as progressive CS6 is still unusable for multicam - freezes on a single frame after a few seconds. In any case this doesn't explain why CS5/5.5 can handle ANY AVCHD fine whereas CS6 can't.
So in summary whilst an interesting and valid point it is a bit of a red-herring as far as this topic is concerned.
Reiterating ExactImage's comment, please Adobe, this is a major issue for many of us - what is the status of this problem and when will it be resolved?
I have just had a nightmare eveing getting an edit ready for a client - Adobe please get this sorted!
Edited 8 x short clips - shortest 40 seconds, longest 3 minutes. Multicamera shoot, 2 x Sony NX5 AVCHD 1920x1080i, 1 x JVC MP4 1440 x 1080i. All media PAL interlaced.
Edited fine. All looked perfect in timeline
Encoded to 1920 Progressive MP4 for upload to YouTube- only 2 clips fine, the other 6 had black and green flashes, mostly within the first 10 seconds - audio fine on all clips.
Solution? Copy the project to a separate drive (luckily only 32 gig in total), open it in another computer running CS5, media encoder same MP4 1920 progessive.
Result - all edit clips perfect! Overall time wasted on CS6 encoding = 4 hours
WHY!!!!!!!!!! Adobe, sort this for goodness sake!!!!!!!!
We cannot make any announcements prior to an official release - we don't want to promise anything that cannot be delivered. However, we are not ignoring this issue - we just don't have any official word yet.
In my personal experince with premiere cs6 I haven't ever had any issues with AVCHD footage. I use AVCHD footage from several different camera models as well. I'd recommend you try it out like Jim recommended.
I think it's fair to say that some people don't seem to have a problem at all whilst others, like myself, have a problem with all AVCHD spanned footage. I have tried footage from five different sources (3 Panasonic and 2 Sony in 720p/1080p/1080i (all 25fps PAL) and all the spanned footage has shown the same problem. Adobe have admitted there is a problem (see Greg Baber's post No. 127) - I'm not sure why it is that some people don't seem to be affected although I'm not 100% sure that the people that say it's OK have actually tried several layers or a multi-cam edit with spanned footage i.e. clips comprising more than one MTS file that Premiere is treating as one. I can also confirm that the exact same footage edits absolutely fine on the same hardware in CS5 which implies it is not related to the source or format of the AVCHD.
All the stuff I edit is generally 22:30-28:30 or just under a hour long. However I generally only edit muticam stuff every once in awhile.
My timelines generally have around 9-11 tracks of video once I've added in all my lower-thirds, bumps, Promos and stills etc. I also usually have
5 or 6 tracks of audio. But I have indeed noticed the problems tend to effect some people and not others. That's why I was thinking he should try out the trial.
I personally use a content management program that merges my .MTS files together rather than having Premiere do it. But most of our programs get ran into
our switcher so I don't use multicam unless we do a field shoot or get hired to do editing for a client.
Sony provided me a content management program that came with our AVCHD cameras. There is also a free program that can join them together for you as well and if you'd like I can PM you the info on where to get it. This way if spanned media is the only problem you have been having this should fix it for you.
It's not just a spanned MS file problem as such. If i use ClipWrap to re-wrap and merge the MTS files in to a single Quicktime file the problem still exists, and even media encode balks at the files. Run those same files through Media Encoder 5.5 and it's a solid workflow just as before.
So, our current AVCHD workflow consists of:
1) Use ClipWrap to re-wrap and merge the MTS files
2) UseMedia Encoder 5.5 to transcode them to ProRes (choose your own flavour)
3) Ingest in to CS6
It's a pain and slows us down, but it's a work around until Adobe get this right.
There are enough little problems (including the serious error issue and CUDA crashes) that it's going to take a while I think.
We're unlikely to get any advanced notice either
That stinks it crashes for you so much. Personally I don't ever experince any CUDA caused crashes. I also don't run into any AVCHD problems either though. I realize though I probably shouldn't have typed this just now. It's probably bound to start now that I've said this...
I do however hope they issue a update for all the people who are having problems. Although I've noticed a lot of the CUDA issues seem to be mostly with MAC users.
I'm not sure why it is that some people don't seem to be affected
I believe it's related to the camera, not the system. I've tested spanned AVCHD from someone else, and I had the problem. But the spanned clips from my Panasonic GH2 do not show the problem. I don't know why.
I updated to 6.0.2 today. Unfortuantely the problem of terrible playback performance(media pending, or frozen video with audio playback, or blacked out video) of AVCHD still exists for me. I am using fs100 footage on a new Mac Pro tower 2 x 2.66 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon with 16GB DDR3 ram. Performance should not be an issue at all. I do not have Premiere cs5.5, so I cannot confirm that it worked fine before, but I can say that playback is perfectly smooth in FCPX. I would prefer to edit in premiere though, so I would love for some sort of fix to this completely debilitating bug for ALL of my fs100 footage.
@andrew, We're in the same boat over here with the same camera and AVCHD issues. It's been going on since CS6 was released and is alleviated in CS5.5. That said, we are in the middle of converting a large (300gb AVCHD from FS100) project into ProRes with Media Encoder -ProRes has been immediately (and noticeably) a more performant working filetype across NLEs. It would be really nice to work natively, but for now, this was the only viable solution, and what we sided on after a few months of deliberation.
Just to add to the confusion, when I edit at home on a different mac pro, I experience no issues at all when working with AVCHD from the same camera. The mac pro at home is from the same year, but is a 1x 3.33 Ghz 6 core Intel Xeon instead of the 12 cores at 2.66 Ghz. Other than that, the machines are identical. I really would love to be able to edit any of this footage at my office, so I hope adobe will give some sort of indication that they are at least working on sorting this out.
I just recevied an update for the CS6 (Mac). Any chance the AVCHD bug was addressed in that update?
We are all working in the CS5 because this bug. (despite I'm paying $75/Month for each of them). Is there still no official Adobe communication about it?
I think I m going to stop to hope and I'm going to cancel all our subscriptions if there is no official announcement.
I guess it is not that easy but if there is no priority at all for that bug, I need to know it, right away. Thanks
I would recommend updating and seeing if that resolves your issue.
We take all bugs seriously but not all bugs can be resolved easily. We did put quite a bit of enhancements into the AVCHD processing in the newest update, and I hope your issue is one of the issues that it deals with.
I'm going to cancel all our subscriptions
One of the nice things about the subscription plan is that you can put it on hold if you won't be needing the software for a while, and then pick it back up again when you're ready.
Thanks Greg but I already tried too much times. I think I did every time I received an update. I m sorry I can't anymore. I lost faith in Adobe. I just wanted to have an official answer. At least to recognize the problem. Anyway, I know it is not your fault. And I m pretty sure it is not an easy bug. But obviously it is not important enough for Adobe.
Thanks and bye...
Here is an answer from a third party software (who wraps AVCHD clips) company's tech support dep't about a good work around with (wrapped) AVCHD files:
"One thing I found while working to reverse engineer the adobe-specific quicktime stuff is that if you add your [AVCHD] files to premiere, then quit (Without saving), reboot, and add your files again, the second time they're imported they'll often play much more smoothly."
I've done exactly this, and it works like a charm.
That said, we're still going to be converting-to/working-in ProRes as it looks to be the superior performer in CS6.
right now I'm much more thinking about Vegas or FCP.
I think that would be a big mistake. Neither can offer the performance or features of the full Adobe Suite. You already have 5, so put your subscription on hold and keep using that for now. Adobe does take these bugs seriously, but fixes do take time. And this one can be quite vexing to track down because it doesn't happen for all spanned media.
You right, It is possible I do that but it is also too long wihtout official information, so I will also use all my energy to leave Adobe if I can do it. And I have a lot of energy, I feel ready to convert my all team to new horizon now. I think with the price of these softwares we deserve at least an answer, if not, I think I should really start to move away. The time cumulated of my team lost with this problem is far beyond the price of this useless software....
AVCHD has swept the serious amateur/prosumer field and the colleges. I can put 5 1024 30p AVCHD cams on an event for the cost of one mediocre 1024i MPG2 field unit. This is an epic fail. College classes are being disrupted by this bug, with the profs promising their students help on getting refunds for their appx. $350 "academic price" CS6 packages. The impact on College courses adventurous enough to stray from the Mac is total.
Adobe, my advice to you is to pull your head out of your butt but keep it between your legs and kiss your *** goodbye. You may think you're OK because you put a bullet through your head an you're still here, but all that shows is that there was nothing inside.
Bring me the butter knife: you're toast.
it is also too long wihtout official information
Then maybe it's good you try something else. Adobe is a publicly traded company, and there are rules about what they can communicate and when. They never really say much of anything until something is ready to release. If you find that vexing, then you probably won't be happy saying with Adobe.
Of course, both Sony and Apple are also publicly traded companies, so...
I think with the price of these softwares we deserve at least an answer, if not, I think I should really start to move away. The time cumulated of my team lost with this problem is far beyond the price of this useless software....
The price of this software? Are you not a Cloud Subscriber? $50 a month for all these apps? That is $600 a year. When the full master collection is $2,599.00 you are saving 1999 and getting more than what the master collection can offer. I understand that employees sitting and waiting for a bug fix is also costing but there are other alternatives. My project was way past due and I also tired of waiting for Adobe to fix it. I decided to see if I could just convert the footage some other way. I ended up finding an MTS converter that did the trick.
I changed my footage to something that Premiere wouldn’t trip over and I finished the project. It stinks that I had to pay out another $30 for a third party program but now I don’t have to keep the customer waiting, wasting time trying to find a hardware combination to get around the problem or rely on a slow bug fix cycle from Adobe.
I am not letting Adobe off the hook however; this bug needs to be fixed. Even if they have to put some pressure on companies that make the cameras to see if they can do some sort of firmware fix for those cameras affected or create a team of programmers just for this one problem. This should have been fixed days after they knew about it as AVCHD is a widely used format.
The amount of time and money you are going to spend retraining and meeting the requirements of other packages can be saved by $30.
Yes we are cloud subscribers. We are even $75 subscribers so we can stop anytime. But I'm stupidily trying to believe the update is coming. But now it is too long, I hate it.
Even to buy a new camera I love to know which camera doesn't have the problem.
Does the Canon XA10 is having the problem also?
Wich MTS converter are you using. I should also try that!! I ll try to be positive again... Yeaahhh!!!! It is hard but there is no choice I will give again energy to my team saying this converter is the solution. (I hope they won't ask why we have to spend time and money for a bug)
Thre is not retraining in my team, They are young, they want to try everything, and they want to move away from Adobe. I m the one keeping them on it.
I haven't had any issues with my own .MTS files however, my friend told me about a program called MTS.Merger that merges your mts files for you, so if your issue is spanned media it will solve it. The program is PC only though. If you want I can PM you a download link. Since it's only merging the files it doesn't actually touch the video, it also joins the video flawlessly just like when you import via the media browser, except it actually spits out a single complete file AVCHD MTS file.
Ahh very cool my friend sent it to me I never actually checked where he got it from but now I know. I've only ever used it like 3 times though, since I haven't ever had any problems with the HXR-NX5U 1080i footage I use fairly often.
Brorsoft MTS Converter
It was the first company that had a listing on Google that had a video converter that said it could do MTS files. That was the Brorsoft Video Converter. however, do not buy the plain Jane do everything Video Converter, instead buy the one made specifically for converting MTSs as the other one has problems with spanned media as well.
Even the MTS convert gives one little blip at the end of a file. I guess that it decimates the interlaced frames in a way that actually chops a about a second off the end of a MTS file. If you have footage from 2 different camera angles as I did that blip doesn't matter as I was on the other camera for those times that footage ended on one.
The video converter has the problem of knowing what to do with the beginning of a file, it seems to hold on a frame a few moments in to the file and then play the video when the audio gets caught up to that frame. At least this was my experience with it.
The great thing is the MTS and Video converter can be used in situations that Adobe can’t handle and I get my work done.
The other reason I post a detail of what I experienced with this software, maybe Adobe will do the smart thing and look at Brorsoft's MTS converter program and see what it does right and fix their software because this other software can give them hints of what it did to resolve the situation.
Additionally the Brorsoft converters can string files together or chop them up as needed. This software was easy for me as having used premiere for as long as I have, I kind of knew what to look for and found all these great features in a very efficient UI.