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387 Views 12 Replies Latest reply: Jan 17, 2007 12:03 PM by Barry_F RSS
Brenton07 Calculating status...
Brenton07
40 posts since
Oct 26, 2006
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Dec 20, 2006 7:19 PM

No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?

Sorry, this is in two forums, but it made sense to get a broad sense of if this is what people are being told or if it is true.

I'm working on a rather robust media delivery project, and ran into a (VERY) frustrating problem. I have been informed that content delivery networks CANNOT stream VP6 live. Additionally, flash live in general is supposedly virtually impossible without quality issues. Has anyone come across this?

Akamai said they could do a broadcast live with Sorenson Codec, but is there even a program that encodes sorenson on the fly and streams to a server?

Supposedly this is a flaw in Media Server 2 that is supposed to be fixed in a 2.5 release... is this correct?
  • JayCharles Participant
    JayCharles
    1,652 posts since
    May 24, 2004
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    1. Dec 21, 2006 12:02 AM (in response to Brenton07)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    When using the flashplayer as the publishing client (when recording a webcam), you're limited to the Sorenson Codec. It's the flashplayer that does the encoding (as opposed to the server) and only the sorenson encoder is present in the flashplayer. This is not a bug in FMS, that's just how it works.

    You can stream live VP6 video, but you need to use On2's Flix Live to do it.

    http://on2.com/developer/live-flash8-sdk/

    I don't know if Akamai or any of the other CDN's support using Flix Live.
  • Brenton07 User
    Brenton07
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    2. Dec 21, 2006 12:21 AM (in response to JayCharles)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    Yes, we have Flix Live, and are being told that no CDN can support this streaming codec (which is odd, because Akamai server is the first server "type" option that pops up).

    Additionally, we are being told that doing live flash has a problem as it stands in the current FMS release. This doesn't make sense to me.
  • JayCharles Participant
    JayCharles
    1,652 posts since
    May 24, 2004
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    3. Dec 21, 2006 10:35 AM (in response to Brenton07)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    quote:
    Originally posted by: Brenton07
    Additionally, we are being told that doing live flash has a problem as it stands in the current FMS release. This doesn't make sense to me.


    Not sure where that info is coming from, but FMS has no problems receiving/recording/broadcasting a live stream. Again, I don't know if any of the CDN's have limitations on their services, but if they do, it's not becuase of a limitation of FMS.

  • Barry_F Calculating status...
    Barry_F
    34 posts since
    Dec 19, 2006
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    4. Dec 23, 2006 1:13 AM (in response to JayCharles)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    quote:
    Originally posted by: JayCharles
    When using the flashplayer as the publishing client (when recording a webcam), you're limited to the Sorenson Codec. It's the flashplayer that does the encoding (as opposed to the server) and only the sorenson encoder is present in the flashplayer. This is not a bug in FMS, that's just how it works.

    You can stream live VP6 video, but you need to use On2's Flix Live to do it.

    http://on2.com/developer/live-flash8-sdk/

    I don't know if Akamai or any of the other CDN's support using Flix Live.


    Jay are you sure this is true? This document ( About the On2 VP6 and Sorenson Spark video codecs) says that the Flash 8 play can encode and publish with the On2 VP6 codec. Am I mistaken?


    Barry
  • JayCharles Participant
    JayCharles
    1,652 posts since
    May 24, 2004
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Dec 23, 2006 11:11 AM (in response to Brenton07)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    The technote you mentioned is discussing the Flash Video Encoder, not the Flashplayer. The Flash Video Encoder is a desktop application for converting video files to .flv .

    The Flashplayer (the browser plugin/activeX control) does not have the vp6 encoder.
  • Barry_F User
    Barry_F
    34 posts since
    Dec 19, 2006
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    6. Dec 23, 2006 1:27 PM (in response to JayCharles)
    No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    quote:
    Originally posted by: JayCharles
    The technote you mentioned is discussing the Flash Video Encoder, not the Flashplayer. The Flash Video Encoder is a desktop application for converting video files to .flv .

    The Flashplayer (the browser plugin/activeX control) does not have the vp6 encoder.


    I'm not trying to argue with you but the article states at the end: "Only Flash Player 8 supports both publish and playback of On2 VP6 video."
    It clearly says "Player" not "Encoder". Is that a mistake or am I reading it wrong?


    Thanks,
    Barry
    P.S. Merry Christmas!
  • JayCharles Participant
    JayCharles
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    7. Dec 23, 2006 3:59 PM (in response to Barry_F)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    I had to reread that line a few times before I figured what they're getting at. I think they're talking about publishing .swf's with embedded vp6 video.

  • Barry_F User
    Barry_F
    34 posts since
    Dec 19, 2006
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    8. Dec 23, 2006 4:32 PM (in response to Brenton07)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    I see. Thank you very much.
  • Brenton07 User
    Brenton07
    40 posts since
    Oct 26, 2006
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    9. Dec 26, 2006 11:46 PM (in response to Brenton07)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    Just to clarify, after speaking with several tech representatives, including those who work directly in development and support with Adobe, I learned that live streaming is possible with FMS. However, it is still severely limited in comparison to quicktime or (ugh) Windows Media Player.

    The Flash Media Server 2.5 release will contain fixes in how flash handles a live stream. This bug was discovered, and is currently being revised. This comes from several industry experts. I was told that it should come anywhere from the end of January, to "sometime late first term, early second term".

    Flash can handle live streaming, but when you start getting into the one or two thousands, there start to be some real problems.
  • FMS_Developer User
    FMS_Developer
    69 posts since
    Oct 5, 2006
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    10. Jan 2, 2007 3:54 AM (in response to Brenton07)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    We are streaming up to 100 streams on a server without any problems. The quality isn't great (Sorensen codec) but it works fine. Maybe the quality isn't up to your standard but hey, FMS is just 4k per server. If you want televisionnetwork-HD-TV-quality broadcasting on the internet you might want to develop your own streaming server :)
  • FMS_Developer User
    FMS_Developer
    69 posts since
    Oct 5, 2006
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    11. Jan 15, 2007 4:36 AM (in response to Brenton07)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    Btw I hope you checked out the Edge and Origin serversetup with FMS ?
  • Barry_F User
    Barry_F
    34 posts since
    Dec 19, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Jan 17, 2007 12:03 PM (in response to Brenton07)
    Re: No live stream for VP6 codec? OR FLASH AT ALL?
    quote:
    Originally posted by: Brenton07
    Just to clarify, after speaking with several tech representatives, including those who work directly in development and support with Adobe, I learned that live streaming is possible with FMS. However, it is still severely limited in comparison to quicktime or (ugh) Windows Media Player.
    ...deleted...
    Flash can handle live streaming, but when you start getting into the one or two thousands, there start to be some real problems.


    Do you mean thousands of users subscribing, or publishing? Or both? Can you be more specifc as to the "problem" with FMS2.0 and live video? I am in the process of writing a live app and now I'm a little worried.


    Thanks,
    Barry

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