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color banding in Premiere exports

New Here ,
Dec 22, 2012 Dec 22, 2012

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I have imported QT animation codec files into Premiere and then re-exported them in variety of lossless formats and it seems like Premiere always introduces an ugly banding on gradients.

The original files are vector art with loads of gradients that are outputted from AE and look fine (they do exhibit some slight banding but nothing serious):

unrendered.png

I export them from Premiere at maximum bit depth, without using the preview files and in a variety of codecs but they all introduce more banding  (mostly evident in the dark grays which introduce a visibile fringing):

rendered.png

The thing is that the fringing is introduced when the source files are ingested. When I open them in the source monitor they already have this banding.

I'm on

PP CS6

Win7 x64

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LEGEND ,
Dec 23, 2012 Dec 23, 2012

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It's very dependent on the codec chosen for your sequence preview files and your choice of codec for export.  QT animation at 100% quality creates 4:4:4 chroma-subsampled files.  Many export codecs cannot duplicate that.  Read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

Jeff

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New Here ,
Dec 23, 2012 Dec 23, 2012

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thanks Jeff,

So it's about what Premiere is using for a preview codec? Even though I am telling it not to use preview files for the final render?

Today I tried QT PNG exports out of AE and they look perfect. I simply imported them into PP and spat them out to QT PNG and they have the same banding. As I'm working on a PC I have no option of using QT previews, so I can only use I-frame only MPEG as a preview file format.

Should I try using the UT YUV422 codec instead?

Still not sure why PP is using the preview renders when I clearly specified it not do that...

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New Here ,
Dec 28, 2012 Dec 28, 2012

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no one else has any other input?

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 12, 2017 Jan 12, 2017

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I experience the same banding in most of the presets in the h.264 options. However, when I export using the Vimeo HD setting, this seems to help tremendously. Try that preset in the h264 codec.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 28, 2012 Dec 28, 2012

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The banding is more likely related to bit depth, which is what determines the number of possible color gradations in a video file.

https://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2010/06/understanding_color_processing.html

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Explorer ,
Jan 31, 2013 Jan 31, 2013

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Did you find a solution to your banding problem ?

I ask because I'm experiencing a similar problem with gradients.

My .avi footage exported from a 16 bit  After Effects CS6 composition looks fine, but when I export the video from Premiere Pro CS6, in H.264 there's terrible colour banding, whether I check Maximum Bit Depth or not.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 01, 2013 Feb 01, 2013

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That's because your export is only 8 bit.  This is normal.

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Explorer ,
Feb 01, 2013 Feb 01, 2013

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Does choosing H.264 for export limit it to 8 bit ?

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LEGEND ,
Feb 01, 2013 Feb 01, 2013

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Yep.

You can get to 10 bit with H.264 compression by choosing an MXF OP1a export and the AVC-I 100 codec.  It's a very good Master format, but has limited use outside of that.  (You can't put it on DVD or Blu-ray, you can't add it to a web page, very few players will handle the format for computer viewing.)

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Explorer ,
Feb 01, 2013 Feb 01, 2013

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Thanks, Jim.

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New Here ,
Feb 04, 2013 Feb 04, 2013

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I have the same Problems. I am cutting with H264 files from a Canon 5D Mark III. When I render the sequence the preview files have banding problems. When I export the sequence, I also have banding problems. I tried different setting and codecs for rendering and export. Also ProRes 422HQ, 4444 does not work.

When I export a H264 to ProRes422HQ directly in quicktime I get perfect results without banding.

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Explorer ,
Feb 04, 2013 Feb 04, 2013

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That's interesting. Thank you. Whichever settings I choose, I must make sure it produces the best possible results for uploading to Vimeo.

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New Here ,
Feb 05, 2013 Feb 05, 2013

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Quicktime is not the best programm for every format. For flash I prefer Adobe Media Encoder. But when you make quicktimes like H264 or ProRes you get much more better results with Quicktime Pro than exporting the files with Media Encoder. I don´t know why but thats my experience.

The main issue ist getting a good result out of Premiere to encode it in any other format. When the export from premiere ist not satisfying (like ist is in my case) you won´t get a better result with quicktime pro.

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New Here ,
May 22, 2013 May 22, 2013

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All this guessing and experimenting is fine, but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. What is the official ADOBE's advice on this????

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Guest
Sep 23, 2014 Sep 23, 2014

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This isn't an issue with Adobe - this is an issue with how the technology works.

Here are solutions:

- Use 16bpc for best results. Export quicktime > animation for fully uncompressed with 100% quality. Make sure the bitrate is actually set at 16,000 since it defaults to something like 12,000. Banding will be about the lowest you will ever get at that level.

- Exporting down to DVD is 10bpc. You'll get some banding. If it's displayed on something like a TV, it will be even worse. That's just how things work/

- Any compression format (H.264) will be around 8bpc which will obviously have banding. Either make the light to dark shades further apart (more pronounced) so more colors can fill the band or add some grain to try and mitigate the banding. All said and done, you're working with compression and that's just what happens with bands.

Final note - even if you export at the uncompressed format, if you're going to upload it to Vimeo or YouTube then THEY are going to compress it and there will still be banding after that. It's life at the moment. There is no perfect solution.

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Participant ,
Dec 14, 2016 Dec 14, 2016

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Actually the problem IS with Adobe's export engine. See my post above.

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New Here ,
Dec 17, 2016 Dec 17, 2016

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Ok guys,same problem here:

If i export my canon c300 mark 2 materiaal shot in 10 bit 4k, its not possible to get a clean export. I tried almost all export settings, and i get banding in al my shots, so suddenly it looks like 8 bit. terrible. al 'maximum quality options' are selected. and even proves 444, or dnxhr 444 looks bad. Now i'm using an export to xml, and let davinci export my timeline, which looks like the original, and like it should.

This is another major let down, its looks like, next to the lack of automatic timecode syncing or being able to link files in a batch, this also is a non-pro feature.

Maybe premiere should change its name, or am i doing something wrong? please help...

thanx Pim

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 24, 2016 Nov 24, 2016

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Add noise to remove banding.

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Participant ,
Dec 14, 2016 Dec 14, 2016

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I can confirm this is STILL and issue under Adobe Premiere CC 2017.

I've also seen subtle color shifting occur when exporting out of Premiere. But I digress back to the original topic.

To preface I should state that each of our guys tasked on attempting to solve this problem in the studio have well over two decades of post-production technical experience.

Source media in the Premiere timeline are ProRes4444 (also tried ProRes422HQ).

Viewing them in Premiere they look perfect. However, the exported file has significant banding introduced into the output file.

We have tried exporting in every single ProRes format available... without any difference in the introduced banding.

We've tried every thing possible we could think of:

1) Setting sequence to maximum color depth

2) Setting sequence to maximum render quality

3) Setting export to maximum quality

4) Disabling metadata at the export

Nothing changes the output.

We've attempted exporting an animation codec version which also has the banding, but slightly reduced overall.

HOWEVER... if you IMPORT this project into After Effects and render the timeline from within After Effects.... there isn't any banding at all. So clearly there is a major issue within the export engine that Premiere uses. Our only work around to ensure there isn't banding, as well as not having the color shift I briefly mentioned, is to import the timeline into After Effects and rendering from there.

This is a significant flaw in Premiere that is just mind-boggling that it has existed for at least 4 years at the minimum. Adobe should be putting this problem at the top of their bug fix list for Premiere.

Let me reiterate that our exports from Premiere were set to Maximum bit depth and maximum render quality. And we rendered to ProRes4444 files.... the same format in which the files were sourced... but banding was introduced.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 02, 2018 Jan 02, 2018

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LATEST

I experience the same all the time. I do film airplanes at Amsterdam Airport. When filming by daylight or lowlight,it doesnt matter.

It has banding all the time.

With new years eve I was filming the fireworks from a position at the 11th floor. The result afer encoding is dramatic.

Adobe is required to solve this ultimate problem asap. When Adobe think they have the smartest employees.....than show it THIS MONTH,starting to work on it TODAY.

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