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CMYK values of an imported image don't match with CMYK in Illustrator

Guest
Mar 24, 2013 Mar 24, 2013

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Hello everyone. I made a simple poster using photoshop to make the background and illustrator to make the fonts and some other stuff.

In CMYK my black is just 100% K ( in photoshop)

When placing image in illustrator the 100% K (black) changes to different black with C M Y added. But then when I save it as PDF the preview shows black as a bit grey (which is something normal- in print it will be just black). So my question is .. should I change enything just to be able to see a 100% K in illustrator in order to match CMYK values of Photoshop? Or should I leave it this way? I guess if I am getting a "grey" in PDF preview is something good isn'it? because in photoshop when I set to 100%K in my screeen it looks like grey and not total black.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

OK, so you used the eyedropper to measure the black. THis was not clear in your initial post.

You cannot take precise measure with the eyedropper in linked photos. It's simply not possible. sampling colors with pressed shift key will always sample the screen representation, i.e. go through color management.

If you want to check colors, create a PDF and then use Adobe Acrobat.

When embedding your linked images you have to take special care of color management to prevent CMYK-to-CMYK-transformations

...

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Guest
Mar 24, 2013 Mar 24, 2013

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In Illustrator, go to Preferences > Appearance of Black > set view and output to "Accurate" Black, not "Rich" Black.  Black is Black and shouldn't be seen as Gray.  Check your monitor and make sure it is calibrated.

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Guest
Mar 24, 2013 Mar 24, 2013

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Now it shows black as grey even in illustrator.
A small brief:
- image containing black created in photoshop in CMYK mode with black set to 100%K

- I imported this image to illustrator and I got rich black (like you said) ... Using the eyedropper I see that CMYK values are different

How can I be sure that if I save into pdf it will be print black and not grey? When using eyedropper in Illustrator on a placed image I want to see 100% K (black) and not rich balck values (shown as grey)

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Community Expert ,
Mar 24, 2013 Mar 24, 2013

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How is color management in the two applications set up? Which color profiles are you using? How do you treat differing profiles in Illustrator? Did you embed the image or link it?

When displaying "exact black", 100 K will indeed look a little gray. But rich blacks might as well look gray, so you need to check in Acrobat print preview how black is set up.

Ask your print service about how to set up black. It depends on machine and stock used and on how you want black to appear.

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Guest
Mar 24, 2013 Mar 24, 2013

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Monica I don't know how to check what color profile I am using in photoshop - Just in illustrator. "drag n drop" image - I guess this is linking images .
Monica can I send you the file and tell me if it need any changes? When the appereance of black was rich black - I saw only black and not grey.

Please anyone? It's very important and urgent.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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billef32 wrote:

Monica I don't know how to check what color profile I am using in photoshop - Just in illustrator. "drag n drop" image - I guess this is linking images .

What kind of drag and drop? The file from the finder into Illustrator? Or the content from Photoshop diretly into Illustrator? And if from the finder: please check if it is embedded.

Also: in Photoshop you'll need a CMYK document. Setting only the color to 100% K in an RGB document won't be enough.

Please read the manual on how to check the color profiles and how to set up color management.

If  black in a placed image is already "rich" in Illustrators seperation preview there's no way for you to get  100 K out of it.

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Guest
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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I don't know why you don't understand. This is not the first time I am using photoshop or Illiustrator. Like I said above I used CMYK color mode in both photoshop and illustrator.  In photoshop I made my background image and I set the black to 100% K. Then I saved that to jpeg.
Then I placed it into illustrator (this is the only drag and drop I know!!) . The file was linked. Even though I tried both ways linked and embedding the file I was getting the very same result when using the eyedropper. My black background indeed looked black but this is the least I care. I want the CMYK values to be right but they are not. Instead of 100% K  I got a full CMYK high percentages of black. Is there any safer way to check the CMYK values in illustrator? Because I don't think that eyedropper is something that I can realy on. I made two vectors one black  (100%) and one white (all set to 0 ) and when I used eyedropper I got different values !!

ps: when I changed the "appearance of black" then it turned into grey (100%K looks like grey) even though the eyedropper isn't giving the right values.

-photoshop color mode CMYK

-illustrator color palette CMYK

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Valorous Hero ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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No one said you are a noob. At least that's not my reading of the other responses and it certainly wasn't my intention.

While you can certainly have a CMYK JPG, why not place (and embed) the PSD? Just curious...

That said, I get the exact behavior with a CMYK JPG as I get with a CMYK PSD for the linked versus embedded versions. That is, the linked CMYK JPG is off in color (black is a rich black for instance). The embedded version is correct (black is the correct percentage of K only).

Mike

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Guest
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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to be honest I've never tried to embed a psd file before. In order to have a preview for the client I was using png or jpeg (less space in disk) then after having the ok from the client I used the same jpeg to do the rest in illustrator. Do I have to change anything in color settings?

eg. Preserve Numbers (Ignore Linked Profiles) is the current state as I can remember.

I will try to embed the psd file. but I am also having an issue with this eyedropper tool in illustrator. Like I mentioned above it seems not to work properly.

I have a white (all set to 0 ) and it gives me C 0.98 M 0.76 Y 0 K 0  instead of all zero.

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Guest
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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also I am not sure If embeeding the psd file will work as a good solution. You see sometimes when it comes to 300dpi the psd file when flatten is approximately 30-70 MB .. .imagine now embedding such a file into illustrator to do the vectors and saving it as a pdf. it will make a huge file!!!

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Valorous Hero ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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as i mentioned, I get the same results embedding the cmyk jpg as the cmyk psd versus linked so use which ever works for your purpose.

the eye dropper works for me on windows. don't know if platform makes a difference or not.

mike

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Valorous Hero ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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So the gist is that if you need to pickup color in AI, the images need to be embedded. But the output to a CMYK PDF using the correct output profile will produce accurate color in the PDF:

capture-000167.png

Mike

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Community Expert ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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OK, so you used the eyedropper to measure the black. THis was not clear in your initial post.

You cannot take precise measure with the eyedropper in linked photos. It's simply not possible. sampling colors with pressed shift key will always sample the screen representation, i.e. go through color management.

If you want to check colors, create a PDF and then use Adobe Acrobat.

When embedding your linked images you have to take special care of color management to prevent CMYK-to-CMYK-transformations. And you have to check color profiles and you have to properly set up color management. Which of course apllies to saving a PDF as well.

There's a huge document on print prdouction with Creative Suite, you might want to read it: http://rufus.deuchler.net/2011/06/adobe-publishes-a-new-creative-suite-555-printing-guide.html

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Guest
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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Monica you were right! I didn't know about checking the colors using adobe acrobat. Even thought the eyedropper was wrong and even though I saw black as Grey..  It turns out that black was indeed a clear 100% K black. No need to change anything no need to adjust anything. So the best solution for checking colors when using linked or embedded images in illustrator is saving as pdf and using the" Adobe acrobat --> Print production " tool. Very useful very accurate. thank you all for taking time in this post. I hope this will help others also.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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billef,

Your description seems to imply that you have your File>Document Color Mode set to RGB Color.

If that is the case, any CMYK colour will be converted into RGB, and the corresponding CMYK values will be distorted to the ugliest degree.

For less conspicuous inconsistencies between documents, I believe the replies from John and Monika are the best guesses to follow up on (unless we are talking weirdnesses such as preference corruption and the like).

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Guest
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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no no . both Photoshop and Illustrator are set to CMYK. I made my background picture in photoshop with black set to 100%K ...

then I placed that image into illustrator (also set as CMYK) and even though I am seeing the same colors I am not getting the same CMYK values.

It's very important to have the right values in order to have a good print.  When I saved my work into pdf (from illustrator) I saw black color as grey.. I guess taht is because of CMYK coding of black? I mean if I am getting Grey "look" it's good isn't it? black should appear as grey when it's in CMYK mode with 100% K.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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billef,

The appearance also depends on the monitor (setting/calibration), but the different values point to something else. The right/synchronized colour management/settings across applications may be the cause: it has to be done with care.

Just to rule out preference corruption, you may try to Move the folder ; you can move it back and retrieve your settings.

Off to other duties, in the snow.

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LEGEND ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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Does Overprint Preview alter anything?

Is you image linked or embedded?

Either or both can make a difference.

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Guest
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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steve fairbairn I didn't checked the overprint thing you said but I tried linking the file and embedding the file. (jpeg file made in photoshop in color mode CMYK with black set to 100%K)  .. but when I used eyedropper I got different black.

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Guide ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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Please see Mike Gondek's very detailed reply (correcting me) concerning the eye dropper in THIS thread.

--OB

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Valorous Hero ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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Linked:

capture-000165.png

Embedded:

capture-000166.png

I cannot remember if whether this was an issue pre-CS6 and I don't have earlier versions installed on this laptop any longer. I have always embedded PSD files anyway so don't know whether I would have noticed.

The above are the same image. I dragged an dropped from the folder it was in and it was linked. First image by default was linked and the color is off. The PSD is CMYK (it is a color chart, actually). Clicking the Embed button results in the second image. Personally I think this is a bug. I cannot imagine this is by design.

Mike

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Valorous Hero ,
Mar 25, 2013 Mar 25, 2013

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Is your PSD linked or embedded? If linked, try embedding it. Do this in a copy of your working document. Then shift-click on your black and report what it reads.

Take care, Mike

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