Photoshop CC - Rent to Own?

[Guest]

I have been following and commenting on the firestorm of protest about Adobe's switch to a Cloud only subscription.  Many angry users and they all want Adobe to reinstate the status quo.  In my opinion this is just not going to happen.  But like Obama says "never let a good crisis go to waste".  So let the users get behind a compromise that neither side will be happy with, but will work for both.

Besides price, the next biggest complaint is that if you stop your subscription you have nothing.  So my proposal of Rent to Own.  Here is one way to do it.

After 3 years of renting you are entitled to a download of the version of your products that was active 2 years prior.  This download would be a perpetual licence. 

Arguments for the above.

1.  Adobe is not going to give you the current version as is deceases incentive to continue subscription once you have a current version.  So don't beat a dead horse with this argument.   Two years back seems like a good compromise. 

2.  CS6 is also a perpetual licence, but will it work with the then current computers and OS in the future?  Evidence says not likely.  So a 2 year old product should still be OK.

3.  I chose 3 years of rental as that would be more than one would pay in rental to buy the product, if it was offered.  This may be a negotiable point with Adobe.  But if you rent for 10 years, and then retire as a professional photographer, or your interests shift, you need the programs so you can continue working with the images.

4.  The argument that there is no disk for versions, as it is all subscription, is hollow.  They have a product that you download to your computer.  All Adobe needs is a deactivation code so it does not ask for the monthly payment.  All Adobe would have to do is keep the version that was active on January 1 two years ago.

Let the users come up with a compromise, rather than digging in and saying no way, and getting nothing.

[Was DYP]

Sounds resonable to me.

Now let Adobe come up with a compromise, rather than digging in and saying no way, and getting nothing.

[Greg_Bohn]

> Sounds resonable to me

  Not to me. As far as I'm concerned Adobe threw it's customers under the bus hoping to take advantage of it's near-monoply to force everyone to cough up money on a regular basis and be 'locked-in' more than before.

   Should I now plead with Adobe to hurt me a little less?

   Adobe already wrote me off as unnecessary on their march to bigger profits.

[JJMack]

It all about Adobe bottom line that's the only target. They have captured their user base and are now capitalizing on it cashing in, in the absent of competition Capitalism you know.

[vincent solomito]

don't you think, JJ, that the purpose of business is business'

Still, I had subscribed 2 days ago and have just now cancelled my subscription.

I sure hope a compromise is worked out. Stay on them!!!

vince

[JJMack]

vinsolo wrote:

don't you think, JJ, that the purpose of business is business'

There is also things like support and ethics.  A company should care about its reputation it may even help business. Adobe doesn't seem to care once the release a product and get it somewhat stable they stop fixing bugs.

I have been trying to get Adobe to fix some bugs for several releases. Over a year ago I reported a new bug in CS6 Adobe did not even Acknowledge it. With the CC announcement I revisited my bug reports still no status change so I bumped them again.   Now they have acknoledged the CS6 one the Adobe sent me e-mail a programer was assigned to fix is not and not even acknowledged.

Here the acknowledgement: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/photoshop_cs6_32bit_and_64bit_script_bug?utm_c...

Hi John,

This was fixed in the subscription version of Photoshop CS6 (13.1). With the recent announcements, I'll put this one back on the hopper for revisiting as a 13.0.x fix.

...You're only a day away!

All I can do is hope.  So back into the nonsubscription hopper it goes.  Seems fitting given Adobe reputation for support. How did it even get out of it before must have been neglect. Yes Adobe neglect of non paying dues members has been established for some time now. And now its acknowledge OH my

"You're only a day away!" irony or sarcasm

[Noel Carboni]

JJMack wrote:

Adobe doesn't seem to care once the release a product and get it somewhat stable they stop fixing bugs.

Philosophically I agree with you.  It's reprehensible that bugs go unfixed across major version release.

But clearly Engineers don't run Adobe.  "Businessmen" (which is a nice way of saying "not smart enough to be an engineer") run it, and despite my disdain for such folks it's pretty clear they've been running Adobe in a way that is sustainable (Photoshop IS up to version 14.0 now).

When trying to grow a business there is a tendency to overdeliver value and try to be everyone's friend, emphasizing things like support.

When trying to maximize profits in a running business the focus changes to minimizing cost and maximizing income.  At that point those running the business want to make it just painful enough that people will continue using the product.  They won't love paying that much, but they still will.  Sound familiar?

-Noel

[JJMack]

You know I have been trying to get bugs fixed for years.  They even fixed one of the CS6 bugs I reported and gave it to you but not to us non subscribers.  And you only Philosophically agree! I do not care if its because of Engineers or Businessmen it a well establish Adobe policy.   It does not matter who set the policy. Even Adobe warrantee state product will work mostly like their documented.  Documentation is in shambles and only on line.  Nowhere do see CS6 will crash from time to time.  CS6 has been crashing from day one most of the crash bugs have been fixed.  Still at lease one still exist ScriptUIFlex.dll crashes every now and then on my machines.  An other user reported the bug and Adobe does not even acknowledge it. Many Google hits. Bug report  http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/export_layers_to_files_script_causing_cs6_to_c...

[Trevor.Dennis]

I'll add a +1 to JJ's comments about most of the new Photoshop CC features, but the change perspective tool, which I don't believe will be part of the first Photoshop CC version, looks cool.   And a nice thing about the Cloud subscription is that you know it won't necessarily be 18 months to two years before it becomes available (as is the case with new full release versions).  Another thought is that we'll never see another public beta release, as we did with CS6.   I am still champing at the bit to sign up after the 17th June, and for the full CC package.

[JJMack]

If you must have Photoshop then pay up.  You can not count on CS6 working in the future Adobe does not support old product. When not if Adobe end CS6 marketing and stop supporting it you will be out in the cold.  You will not be able to recover from head crashes or update you OS.  CS6 installation requires an Adobe Activation Registration server.  Adobe history shows they take them down CS6 installation will not be possible at some point.

[playpiano]

What?

I have CS6 Master regularly licensed.

I can understand Adobe does not support it forever but i will use it until i want: Adobe cannot arbitrarely make decision to stop CS6 activation service unless it give me a non activation-dependent patch.

For sure.

[JJMack]

I'll repeat history shows that not only can they, Adobe have taken down install servers.  Adobe did try to make that right and put a install on the net that could be install with a provided code.  Adobe then realized that anyone could now down and install CS2 so they pulled that down too....

[nahravka]

http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/

and this "cracked" version works fine with any new OS, so most of users are gonna be doing well, for next 5-10 years

[JJMack]

It not a cracked version Adobe made that available and it installs. It goes through registration everytime you start it which does no good. Its three levels back which is verry poor as far as ACR goes.

[Noel Carboni]

You seem to be reacting to flawed assumptions, JJ...

1.  The Photoshop CS2 non-online activated version was made available by Adobe to people who were no longer able to activate their software because the old online activation servers ceased functioning.  The only take-away I get from this is that Adobe is serious about continuing to support folks who bought perpetual licenses for old products.

2.  Based on the above, is there any reason not to assume that Adobe will, going into the future, support the use of Photoshop CS6 perpetual licenses - either by continuing to support the activation server or by making a non-online activated version available, just as they have with Photoshop CS2?

-Noel

[JJMack]

CS2 as far as I know is stable and fixed. The big question is will CS6 ever even get to that state?

[nahravka]

please read "cracked" as "activation free", and YES, it is stable and fixed, works better than CS6 / 64bit for me (and most likely, for many other users)

Even thinking about selling my CS5.5 / 6 upgrade right now, and enjoy next years without spending a dime on next Adobe products

[Noel Carboni]

Since ATI Catalyst 13.3 beta 3 (and now with 13.4) I haven't had anywhere NEAR the crashes / problems I had before.  Of course, I'm on the Cloud edition (13.1.2), so that could be a factor.  I haven't forgotten we're talking about the perpetual version.

It would be nice if for every bug Adobe fixes in the cloud version they'd fix it in Photoshop CS6 as well.

-Noel

[JJMack]

Yes I'm retired and foot the bills for the Internet each year I pay

ISP  $400  24/7 service 15Mbs fantastic up time cost to cost around 5Mbs local around 12Mbs

Web Server $60 24/7 service Backup Restore unlimited storage and great bandwidth fantastic up time

Web domain name $10

Photoshop has been $134 now Adobe wants a 80% hike to $240 and their support in the poorest I have ever come across.

[Crystal Visionary]

Like someone said on a different thread, "Don't drink the Kool Aid"

[WBoswell]

Let's just hope next time Adobe puts the files and serial numbers in a place where only registered users can access it and not on a public page like they did for CS2.  Or provide us links from our own accounts.  That will stop another "Adobe is giving away CS6."

[WBoswell]

Who wants CS2 when we have CS6?  CS2 is too old to bother with.

[WBoswell]

The CS2 download page is still there.

http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/index.html

[*Photonic]

Trevor.Dennis wrote:

I'll add a +1 to JJ's comments about most of the new Photoshop CC features, but the change perspective tool, which I don't believe will be part of the first Photoshop CC version, looks cool.   And a nice thing about the Cloud subscription is that you know it won't necessarily be 18 months to two years before it becomes available (as is the case with new full release versions).  Another thought is that we'll never see another public beta release, as we did with CS6.   I am still champing at the bit to sign up after the 17th June, and for the full CC package.

Sounds like you still haven't seen the big picture here. Know that Adobe's priorities and incentives have now drastically changed due to the new CC model.

First of all, there may soon no longer be "versions." There is no longer a time-measure or number measure of Adobe providing a new feature set for customers to review and THEN consider purchasing. Remember, Adobe will already have your money and commitment. And they no longer have to provide you with significant new product features to get your money. You will already be subscribed.

You feel good about no longer having to wait 18 months for a new feature set. Well, what is Adobe's incentive to continue R&D at its former pace? Again, they already have your money. Their incentive to produce new features is now about as much as their incentive to fix bugs -- rare, because that cost decreases their profit margin.

We will now be required to pay Adobe up front for "promises" rather than tangible features. The day you are excitingly awaiting, July 17th, will be the LAST time you will be able to look at PS's new features and then decide to buy or not. Once you subscribe, you have sacrificed your choice and relieved Adobe of any incentive to provide you with a better product in the future.

Onward lemmings -- to the cliff! 

[Trevor.Dennis]

*Photonic wrote:

Trevor.Dennis wrote:

I'll add a +1 to JJ's comments about most of the new Photoshop CC features, but the change perspective tool, which I don't believe will be part of the first Photoshop CC version, looks cool.   And a nice thing about the Cloud subscription is that you know it won't necessarily be 18 months to two years before it becomes available (as is the case with new full release versions).  Another thought is that we'll never see another public beta release, as we did with CS6.   I am still champing at the bit to sign up after the 17th June, and for the full CC package.

Sounds like you still haven't seen the big picture here. Know that Adobe's priorities and incentives have now drastically changed due to the new CC model.

First of all, there may soon no longer be "versions." There is no longer a time-measure or number measure of Adobe providing a new feature set for customers to review and THEN consider purchasing. Remember, Adobe will already have your money and commitment. And they no longer have to provide you with significant new product features to get your money. You will already be subscribed.

You feel good about no longer having to wait 18 months for a new feature set. Well, what is Adobe's incentive to continue R&D at its former pace? Again, they already have your money. Their incentive to produce new features is now about as much as their incentive to fix bugs -- rare, because that cost decreases their profit margin.

We will now be required to pay Adobe up front for "promises" rather than tangible features. The day you are excitingly awaiting, July 17th, will be the LAST time you will be able to look at PS's new features and then decide to buy or not. Once you subscribe, you have sacrificed your choice and relieved Adobe of any incentive to provide you with a better product in the future.

Onward lemmings -- to the cliff! 

If there is one thing that is a dead cert, it's that Adobe's competitors will be making haste to take advantage of the negative response to the CC situation.  OK, Photoshop doesn't viable competition that I can think of, but all its other apps do.  If adobe decide to rest on their laurels, then those people who were initially happy with the CC model, will jump ship.  It's a big world out there. Ask IBM about that upstart Bill Gates who had the audacity to think he could challenge their monopoly on microcumputer operating systems.  If you are a youngster, you might be asking IBM???

We know what's on offer for the first CC apps, and I am pretty excited about them, but note I use a bunch of Adobe apps, and not just Photoshop.  I agree, no question, a single app subscription for Photoshop is not a good deal, but CS6 is only a year old, and you would not have expected to update for a while yet.  That gives you time to decide what is right for me.  Right now the full CC package looks like a stonking good deal for me. 

I am perhaps a bit peeved that, if I chose to stay with my CS6 apps, I would not be able use the MXF files from my Canon XF300 in After Effects.  Adobe agree this a bug, but it is unlikely to be fixed with a CS update - only with the CC apps.  That kind of sucks.