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No perpetual licenses are you serious?

May 6, 2013 5:15 PM

  Latest reply: ValentinOcheda, Mar 31, 2014 1:30 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2013 3:08 PM   in reply to Chazinbermuda

    That is correct, it's not just about the money. It's definitely about much more: choice, ownership of our work, creative freedom, trust and ...the list goes on and on and on... Chazinbermuda your mentions are well said and what you say seems to echo a bit of this thread found here: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1212063

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2013 6:36 PM   in reply to creativetta

    The math. I do use the Master Collection. I upgraded approx. every 18 months, or slightly less, last upgrade offer was 1100, in three years=2,200. I generally had to buy a plugin or two to get around an issue that came up in the update 200-500, call it 2,500 versus 1799.64. I actually do value the additional "social" stuff, the typekit (I have spent between 200 and 4,500 per year for fonts over the years), etc....

     

    As for the "time to post in the forums" snotty little comment. I don't hang around the forums, because I in fact don't have that much time. This thread showed up when I checked the forums today, and since I had almost the exact same thought last year it caught my eye.

     

    Finally, by wasting your time, I meant: Adobe is a successful company, they have been around a while, yes they do want to make a profit, they know more about their customers (including all the moaning in these forums) than we ever will and they have initiated this plan, a huge change in company direction which is both expensive in infrastructure investment and PR damage. So do you really think the amount of activism being shown is going to sway them? Go use the other "serious" contenders and quit trying to run Adobe. You'll get more ROI.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2013 7:04 PM   in reply to Chazinbermuda

    Chazinbermuda wrote:

     

    ....

     

    I particularly do not like the fact that once you stop subscribing you lose access to files... this gun to the head system is a reversal of motivation.... previously adobe had to keep us impressed so we kept buying their software... now that dont have to because if you stop subscribing poof goes those files.... this is not the Adobe I knew a few years ago... a company that cared about users and listened to them....

     

    ...

     

    Agreed. The Creative Cloud is virtually the same as if Adobe canceled all CS5 licenses within a month of CS6 being released. If you don't upgrade to CS6 then you can't use CS5 anymore.

     

    Can you imagine the outrage? Oh wait maybe it's like the outrage going on in here.

     

    Money isn't the issue, as some have said. If you used the Master Collection and upgraded every version, the prices between CS and CC are very close. An expiring license is really the biggest change.

     

    Well that, and the fact that they stopped offering all of the smaller suites which cost less.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2013 7:34 PM   in reply to woknow@comcast.net
    The math. I do use the Master Collection. I upgraded approx. every 18 months, or slightly less, last upgrade offer was 1100, in three years=2,200.

     

     

    Oh really, because there was 24 months between CS5 and CS6. And if you upgraded to CS5.5 in between, then the upgrade offer was much lower than 1100 to CS6.

    With that 2 year release cycle the price is easy to calculate. 1100 for two years is 550 for one year. With those plain numbers It's pretty hard to see the 1/3 CC price you were boasting about earlier, isn't it?

     

     

    I generally had to buy a plugin or two to get around an issue that came up in the update 200-500, call it 2,500 versus 1799.64.

     

    You can't be serious. As if buying plugins was a thing for only the CS versions! Please explain what your plugin comment has to do with the CC pricing! I'm all ears!

     

     

    I don't hang around the forums, because I in fact don't have that much time.

     

     

    You seem to hang around here enought to make self-righteous comments about other peoples time usage. Explain this: how do you know some people write here often, if you in fact didn't arrive to that conclusion by reading the posts of those people (thus yourself spending more time here than you're willing to admit)? I really don't care what other people do with their time so feel free to participate as much or as little as you wish. Just don't post judgmental comments about what people do with their time. It's not your business really, is it?

     

     

    Adobe is a successful company, they have been around a while, yes they do want to make a profit, they know more about their customers (including all the moaning in these forums) than we ever will and they have initiated this plan, a huge change in company direction which is both expensive in infrastructure investment and PR damage. So do you really think the amount of activism being shown is going to sway them?

     

     

    Big companies make mistakes all the time and become little companies in the process. Some big companies are smart enough to backtrack when the most important aspect of their business (=customers) gets outraged. Microsoft has recently done that with Windows 8.1 and Xbox One. Netflix did it earlier.

     

    Maybe the activism shown here doesn't influence Adobe. But debunking false claims about cheaper prices and other false rhetoric will show ordinary customers the truth about this move. They will not spend their dollars and they know they are not alone in this. We stand together to oppose Adobe Cash Cow and money is the language even Adobe will have to listen to.

     

     

    Go use the other "serious" contenders and quit trying to run Adobe.

     

     

    Already doing that, so don't make those assumptions. Looking forward to meeting Harm Millaard on the Edius forums. In the meanwhile I will also participate here, just for fun and out of spite, and happily debunk the false claims cloudies are trying to pass. To quote a book title:

    Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3,000

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2013 8:41 PM   in reply to woknow@comcast.net

    Why is it that apologists for CC and Adobe only talk about cost? The cost of CC is a major issue that they like to distort, but for me, and for many based on comments here and elsewhere, the real crime is the gun-to-the head requirement to pay forever if you want to be able to edit YOUR intellectual property.  Why don't we hear about what a great deal that is?  (Aside from the fact that there is no logical way to defend it.)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 9:46 AM   in reply to pknight11

    the real crime is the gun-to-the head requirement to pay forever if you want to be able to edit YOUR intellectual property.  Why don't we hear about what a great deal that is?

     

    Possibly because it's not a valid argument.  While you may own the rights to the original media, and the edited export, the project file itself is Adobe code, owned by them and licensed by you.

     

    So your IP is what goes in and what comes out.  What's in between belongs to Adobe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 9:51 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Sure the application is not ours to "own", though we previously "owned" the perpetual right to use it (and sell it).

     

    But the files we create are OURS. And if we can't open them, then Adobe does indeed hold a gun to our head. Which is a very valid argument. I would be very surprised if Adobe owned the code to my InDesign files.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 10:32 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    While you may own the rights to the original media, and the edited export, the project file itself is Adobe code, owned by them and licensed by you.

     

    Oh really Jim? This is now the great reason why everyone should bow down and accept what Adobe is doing?

     

    So Jim, you seem think that if Adobe wants, it could claim ownership of every PSD or PDF file ever created with their software. Think that would hold up in a court of law very well?

     

    Or is your statement perhaps rather meaningless in the real world?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 11:29 AM   in reply to Andy Bay

    Andy Bay wrote:

     

    Go use the other "serious" contenders and quit trying to run Adobe.

     

     

    Already doing that, so don't make those assumptions. Looking forward to meeting Harm Millaard on the Edius forums. In the meanwhile I will also participate here, just for fun and out of spite, and happily debunk the false claims cloudies are trying to pass. To quote a book title:

    Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3,000

     

    Harm isn't the only one heading to Edius. A lot of people are.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 11:38 AM   in reply to woknow@comcast.net

    woknow@comcast.net wrote:

     

    caught my eye.

     

    Finally, by wasting your time, I meant: Adobe is a successful company, they have been around a while, yes they do want to make a profit, they know more about their customers (including all the moaning in these forums) than we ever will and they have initiated this plan, a huge change in company direction which is both expensive in infrastructure investment and PR damage. So do you really think the amount of activism being shown is going to sway them? Go use the other "serious" contenders and quit trying to run Adobe. You'll get more ROI.

     

    It's obvious they don't know more about their customers otherwise they never would have came up with the CC subscription in the first place.

    The amount of the subscription doesn't matter at all. We don't want subscription based software - Period.

     

    As someone who paid Adobe $ through the years, myself and others will complain as much as possible.

    Adobe has no clue as to how ticked off their customer base is. It's far worse than even they think it is.

     

    Don't worry - many of us have moved on and spent our $ for non subscription software. It feels great.

    You're right on one point , I am getting more ROI with no monthly subscription fees. lol

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 11:59 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    So, by that argument Microsoft owns every .doc file and every .xls file, etc., ever created, and the paying customers only own the print-outs and the reflected light from the screens upon which we project our PowerPoint presentations.  On second thought, Texas Instruments probably owns the light, so PP users end up with nothing.

     

    OR, perhaps the software is a tool, that the software publisher owns the code to, and licenses to users to CREATE new code, that the users then own.  That is, my files are created with Microsoft or Adobe code, and I pay for the use of that code to create new "stuff" that these companies have no legitimate claim to owing.  That includes the files on the disc.

     

    This is would be no different than Canon claiming they own my photos because they were created as .CR2 files.  Utter rubbish.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 2:54 PM   in reply to Andy Bay

    Oh really Jim? This is now the great reason why everyone should bow down and accept what Adobe is doing?

     

    Not at all.  I'm just saying I'm not convinced the courts would consider the project file your "intellectual property".  The export I can understand, the project file I question.

     

    It's a little different with text and word documents, as they contain the actual work itself.  But a PP or AE project file does not.  It contains only references to the work you own the rights to.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 2:42 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim Simon wrote:

    Possibly because it's not a valid argument.  While you may own the rights to the original media, and the edited export, the project file itself is Adobe code, owned by them and licensed by you.

     

    So your IP is what goes in and what comes out.  What's in between belongs to Adobe.

     

    really? I'm not EULA expert but what you said makes no sense, worst thing is even if that was the case you seem to have no problem with it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 2:58 PM   in reply to CarlosCanto

    I'm not EULA expert but what you said makes no sense

     

    It's not about the EULA, it's about copyright law.  In the US, copyright exists when a work is set down in a permanent form.  You could argue that the project file is permanent, and you might be right, I don't know for sure.  But you can't watch a project file.  I can see an interpretation that says the export is the 'work', not the project file itself.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 2:58 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Not at all.  I'm just saying I'm not convinced the courts would consider the project file your "intellectual property".

     

    Of course they will, this is not even slightly controversial. Any file you create with any software (even rented software!) using your creative capabilities is your intellectual property. The software house has absolutely no claim to it's contents whatsoever nor over the physical bits in the file. That would be as crazy as the makers of a new kind of bolt and nut scheme (say pentagonal instead of hex nuts) somehow owning the bridge that you built using their bolts. The content of files you create with Adobe software are your intellectual property. Nobody else's. It is even the case that it is explicitely legal to reverse engineer the file format for interoperability purposes even if the creator of the file format chooses to not document it. This was settled quite a while ago. Adobe cannot, even if it wanted to, prevent others from writing importers and exporters for their file formats, which is why the psd format is read and written by lots of software.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 3:44 PM   in reply to pknight11

    Interesting argument this....

     

    If I was driving down the road with the company camera in my car (outside of work hours) and I saw and photographed a UFO... who owns the picture? ... the camera is not mine...so does the company own the shot

     

    If I created a very successful busines using adobe products (which I now do not own but rent) could Adobe argue that they own a percentage of the business? ...most people would argue no.... but if they put it in the EULA and you agreed to those terms.. they could be part owners..

     

     

    In other business ie acting and model agencies (which are essentially services) ... the agency does own a percentage of what the client makes...

     

    Based on Adobe's behaviour I suspect if they see an avenue for making money they will squeeze it... which is not the adobe I grew up with

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 5:10 PM   in reply to Chazinbermuda

    The courts would have something to say about Adobe claiming any ownership of work done with their prooducts, and as has been explained elsewhere in this thead Adobe would not have a leg to stand on.  Which takes me back to the idea that they may also be in a bit of trouble if they block access to your intellectual property created with their tools.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 7:27 PM   in reply to Andy Bay

    > Andy Bay

    Absolutely agree

    All these "wrong math makers" (And they all take the Master Collection as base of math, which was not selled very often and is the worst case scenario - and also not cheaper).

    Adobe itself don´t arguments with "cheaper".

    (Entry level is not as high - which can be translated "fixing on")

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 7:33 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    > Jim Simon

    You know exactly that it´s meant this way (or it´s nitpicking):


    You OWN the right to use the software (as long as you want/lifelong) with CS6

    and

    You own the right to use the software only if you pay for it every month.

     

    IT IS AN BIG DIFFERENCE between CS6 and CC

    You OWN NOTHING after subscription.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2013 7:43 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    > Jim Simon

    That´s totally wrong.

    Adobe isn´t the owner of a project file (...and you licensed that).

    Adobe is the owner of the file-formating - that´s all.

    As they gave you the right to create files with their software, the file/project itself is yours.

    (Elsewise Adobe would have the right to take it back/delete it - total nonsense)

    But it´s clearly right: You never OWN the software (If your Name is not Apple, MS or Adobegant), but you can OWN a license.

    And that changed dramatically with the BS of CashCow.

    You OWN NOTHING after subscription.

    No further right of usage.

    That´s it in simple.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2013 7:48 AM   in reply to bababongatwo

    You are on a hiding to nothing trying to convince the CC subscribers that they, by their lack of forward understanding of the future issues will be acutally perpetuating the CC.

     

    I have said it many times in many posts...............CC subscribers have their heads stuck so far up their own clouds that the sun is shining.

     

    Just accept that their opinion differs, just accept that your CS software will work OK for many years to come, just accept that the enhancements of the CC programs are "nice to have but not essential", just accept that the CCers are going to beta test every single update on their systems, just accept that you will be substantially better off financially by not allowing the hype of a not wanted system to take you over, in other words .....live long and prosper

     

    Tongue removed from cheek

     

    Col

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2013 9:10 AM   in reply to Biggles Lamb

    Biggles Lamb,  I personally accept all those things and agree with them.

     

    But I also believe there are people who haven't decided what they should think about the cloud. For their sake I think it's important to debunk all the Adobe marketing hype. There is so much misinformation and smoke and mirrors on Adobe's part. I believe in educating people and giving them the facts.

     

    Of course, some people posting here, without mentioning any names, fit your metaphor perfectly. Those people can not be convinced with any kinds of facts.  But those are not really the people we are targeting our messages to. We might answer their posts, but the target audience for those answers is all the undecided customers. It also warms my heart to see the hundreds of people here that are not buying the bs. It's nice to know we have a very wide front in this battle.

     

    Finally let me add this: while some of my messages might sound hostile towards Adobe, I'm actually still hoping that this company will succeed. I just honestly believe this is not the way to do that. Not by force Adobe. No company, not even Adobe, can force customers to act against their will. This is a path to desctruction. To succeed in the future they need to kick out of the people behind this extortion and go into a serious damage repair mode. To succeed they need to LISTEN to what customers are asking for. I want the old Adobe back. It was once a company that I loved and was marketing to hundreds of my students.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2013 9:42 AM   in reply to Andy Bay

    Andy

     

    My comments were not aimed at you but At BABA

     

    Based on my own experience trying to convince Jim otherwise his comments towards Jim will never change Jim's opinion, I have respect for Jim's views and knowledge but as far as the CC is concerned replying to any of Jim's posts is a complete waste of time, he is intrangient in his posts, I do not see anything changing that other than Adobe advising next year of a 10% hike in prices followed by another 10% hike the year after, then thoughts may change

     

    But otherwise I totally agree with you.

     

    Whilst I do wish Adobe success I do not want that success to be by charging extortionate prices for their products.

     

    Yes the CC does seem great for new users and those wth cash to effectively waste on a non perpetual product, but for existing users it sucks.

     

    Keep up the campaining

     

    Col

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2013 1:55 PM   in reply to Biggles Lamb

    Understand, that I will not change (most of) CCers minds.

    But when they start to turn the facts (like math-making CC = cheaper than CS), I simply will not be quiet.

    I find these arguments in many threats - not only here - and I think, there are lots of potential users searching for objective information.

    If you will not point out the truth, they eventually make dicisions based on wrong information.

    I´m old enough to understand, that I can´t change peoples minds, who "...have their heads stuck so far up their own clouds that the sun is shining."

     

    So again:
    As Adobe planes to raise income with only half of their (former) customers, htH it should work to make the products cheaper???

     

    You OWN NOTHING after subscription, You have to FOLLOW HARDWARE requirements of Adobe, The cloud isn´t a cloud, Betatester,...

    ----------

    CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2013 8:49 PM   in reply to bababongatwo

    As for the license/ownership/lack-of-ownership issue: It really is simple, I think.

     

    Nothing has changed. I own my creations; it is my intellectual property. I have a license to use Adobe's software to edit/get my creations on screen/paper/whatever. I do not own the code that I license the right to use.

     

    Nothing has changed in those regards. The change is this:

     

    Before, I paid a fee that let me license the right to use Adobe's software for as long as I can get it to run on my system (with Adobe being responsible to ensure it runs on systems they claim support for).

     

    Now, I pay a fee for a license for the exact same thing, but my license has a meter running on it and when it runs out, that's it until I renew it.

     

    Ownership and rights haven't changed at all, as such. It's only that my rights are revoked when the meter hits zero now, whereas before I didn't have to worry about any revokation.

     

    And to flog that dead and decaying horse at least on more time . . . this gets into an ethical issue, because there is the essence of the Adobe code hooking into my work, and, when the meter hits zero, it effectively is a tire lock for which I MUST pay Adobe to remove.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2013 9:44 PM   in reply to Brntoki

    Adobe, look what you've made us become. Creatives fighting creatives. Parking at meters and fighting turf wars. Are you happy now?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2013 1:33 AM   in reply to bababongatwo

    There have been dozens of posts about the math involved about the pros and cons, and many CCers just cannot fathom basic addition as not one has posted an effective financial analysis for existing CS users

     

    For a new user to Adobe products then CC is probably the right choice up to a point in a few years when the costs equalize and then cross over to make CS cheaper (assuming to increase in subscription)

     

    It is the long established users who are being ripped off, the fact that I cannot understand is that the CCers will be paying more for the CC than a CS update yet they blindly pay, now that makes no sense at all.

     

    Adobes track record of bug free major updates and ongoing bug fixes are not good fo essentially all CCers have now become Beta testers.

     

    Col

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2013 2:00 AM   in reply to Biggles Lamb

    There is another HUGE downside to Creative Cloud that is just now being fully realized:

     

    With CS6 a company could buy the software, and several employees could use it when needed, as long as two persons were not using it simultaneously. Or as another example, with CS6 my wife could use the software when I was not using it.

     

    With CC, every single user of the software needs a license. Both me and my wife need separate licenses in order to legally use the software.

     

    That's a pretty massive price increase right there!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2013 3:15 AM   in reply to Brntoki

    when the meter hits zero, it effectively is a tire lock for which I MUST pay Adobe to remove.

     

    That is why I prefer to park on my driveway, instead of on the street with a meter.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2013 5:27 AM   in reply to cc_merchant

    cc_merchant wrote:

     

    That is why I prefer to park on my driveway, instead of on the street with a meter.

    Yep. And that's why I've been busier than normal over the last month, trying to figure out the best way to repave my driveway: Stuff I used to use is no longer viable. But, as I've found out in my research, it's no longer necessary either, so . . .

     

    True story: I opened up Photoshop today and was lost for a brief moment. I've already begun to forget what's where in the UI. AWESOME!!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2013 3:14 PM   in reply to Mattrman

    Let me put it this way as I put in a note to Adobe...

     

    I work for a PBS television facility that not only produces television productions for broadcast, but also provides services for clients as well.

     

    We are beginning the process of replacing all our AVID edit workstations with Adobe ones.  HOWEVER, with the new CC business model, we are re-thinking the switch from AVID to Adobe.  While the concept of having the most current version of the software available is a very tempting prospect, the biggest problem comes in here:

     

    1. There is a strong possibility the advancements of the software will outpace the hardware and drive the need to replace with a greater frequency with no opportunity to prevent future upgrades that may be seriously deleterious to the operation of the hardware..

    2. No matter how much equity you build up in the Creative Cloud software, the moment you cease your subscription, is the moment you lose the functionality of the software.

    This is all unless I'm somehow misunderstanding how CC works.

     

    My suggestion would be where you charge an initial large up-front fee for the software and then offer a subscription fee to keep current.  Then, as a user, if I choose to stop upgrading, I can simply stop at my current version until such time as I can afford to replace all my hardware and continue my subscription.

     

    At this point, because of the CC business model change, we are seriously considering not to make the Adobe switch, but instead continue with AVID.

     

    And this is my biggest complaint.  Glad I'm not the only one.  I just hope someone will listen.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2013 4:21 PM   in reply to thxapproved

    Thxapproved, you have the right understanding.

     

    If you are not happy with Avid, you might also want to download the demo for Edius 7. That editing program is pretty amazing, especially regarding the speed and the possible workflows.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2013 5:10 PM   in reply to thxapproved

    Not much discussed, but beside the missing exit-strategy (and losing my whole archive after subscription) - The argument, that you have to follow all of Adobes dictated hardware requirements, was my "second place concern".

    The more I think about all the lacks (which will all become reality in long term) I wonder, why they can get anyone into dependency. May be, as the price sounds so "little" (compared to boxes). They should make daily/hourly payments - that sounds like realy nothing.

    So I also decided not to follow Adobes "Vision of a cloud". No credit from my side for missmanagement and user ignoring. It´s not easy for me, to come out the dependency of Adobe-based workflows and file-Format troubles (Which is a dependency without subscribing for a long time user as me) - but it hurts less with every day.

    ----------

    CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never

     
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    Jul 15, 2013 11:41 PM   in reply to thxapproved

    Since I have no inclination to subscribe and have been looking for alternatives to the Adobe software that I'm so comfortable with, it took 'til this morning for it to dawn on me about the point you make on software forcing hardware upgrades. 

     

    I realized that, one day, my hardware will not be compatible with CS6, and I plan to be efficient with someone else's applications before then. But I didn't even think about the CCers who will eventually be forced to update hardware since even their willingness to pay subscription fees won't matter. Can you imagine booting up one morning to edit a client's ad at deadline (hey, it happens!), then finding out that last night's update rendered your hardware obsolete? Gulp!

     

    I'm still confused on the business decision to eliminate the perpetual license option... if greed wasn't the primary reason. They offered us long-time Adobe supporters a chance to have software we could use without the monthly pay-up-or-else while retaining the right to upgrade per our timeline, and they offered an option to pirating for those who couldn't afford the initial chunk of money needed for a perpetual license. Am I just too simple-minded in thinking that giving customers two options was a great business decision?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 16, 2013 12:38 AM   in reply to FrannieKN

    As many many of us have been following this for so long, it doesn't look

    like Adobe is going to change their position in the near future.  If enough

    of us don't subscribe maybe we will see a change, but I am not counting on

    it.  For me CC is just not a realistic option as I am not a professional.

    Furthermore, I want "ownership" of the software.

     

    As I have been looking at alternatives, I have downloaded the latest

    version (trial) of Edius Pro 7 (along with their great tutorial) and it is

    a very good program.  Very similar to PP and much easier to learn than Sony

    Vegas (as I couldn't find tutorials),  Lightworks (still buggy) and Avid.

     

    Give it a try and spread the word...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 16, 2013 1:45 PM   in reply to Brntoki

    Brntoki wrote:

     

    As for the license/ownership/lack-of-ownership issue: It really is simple, I think.

     

    Nothing has changed. I own my creations; it is my intellectual property. I have a license to use Adobe's software to edit/get my creations on screen/paper/whatever. I do not own the code that I license the right to use.

     

    Nothing has changed in those regards. The change is this:

     

    Before, I paid a fee that let me license the right to use Adobe's software for as long as I can get it to run on my system (with Adobe being responsible to ensure it runs on systems they claim support for).

     

    Now, I pay a fee for a license for the exact same thing, but my license has a meter running on it and when it runs out, that's it until I renew it.

     

    Ownership and rights haven't changed at all, as such. It's only that my rights are revoked when the meter hits zero now, whereas before I didn't have to worry about any revokation.

     

    And to flog that dead and decaying horse at least on more time . . . this gets into an ethical issue, because there is the essence of the Adobe code hooking into my work, and, when the meter hits zero, it effectively is a tire lock for which I MUST pay Adobe to remove.

     

    Guess again - when you are in the Cloud they can monitor and remove your material for any reason.

     

    From the license agreement that Andy Bay posted an excerpt from over in the Adobe Max thread:

    15.1 Adobe, in its sole discretion, may (but has no obligation to) monitor or review the Services and Materials at any time. Without limiting the foregoing, Adobe shall have the right, in its sole discretion, to remove any of Your Material for any reason (or no reason), including if it violates the Terms or any Law.

     

    This deal is getting worse all the time - Lando Calrissian.

     
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    Jul 16, 2013 5:09 PM   in reply to TheCoroner9

    Today I received an advertisement email from Adobe stating:

     

    "Join the over 650,000 creative professionals who’ve already made the switch to Creative Cloud* and get everything you need to create, collaborate, and publish all in one place. And with a Creative Cloud membership, you’ll always have the most advanced design features the minute they become available."

     

    At the Q2 earnings Adobe stated 770,000 subscribers. Why do the state 120,000 less? Did 120,000 early adopters not continue the subscription?

     
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    Jul 16, 2013 5:31 PM   in reply to Marcus Koch

    Marcus Koch wrote:

     

    Today I received an advertisement email from Adobe stating:

     

    "Join the over 650,000 creative professionals who’ve already made the switch to Creative Cloud* and get everything you need to create, collaborate, and publish all in one place. And with a Creative Cloud membership, you’ll always have the most advanced design features the minute they become available."

     

    At the Q2 earnings Adobe stated 770,000 subscribers. Why do the state 120,000 less? Did 120,000 early adopters not continue the subscription?

    Yes and you’ll always have the latest bugs the minute they become available.

     

    The big question when will these bugs be fixed.

     

    PS hang when selecting tools. Same problem as CS6 not fixed in years.

     

    ID very slow performance. CC has been out for 1 month now and still not fixed. Obviously not tested before release.

     

    Acorbat not using monitor profile results in not accurate colors. Goes back two versions and not fixed in years.

     

    When Adobe shows an interest in fixing bugs I might show an interest in CC.

     

    I can very well imagine the 120,000 got fed up with the problems of CC and quit. At less that 10% getting hooked on the cloud even less incentive to fix anything?

     

    At least one good thing about CC, if the software you get is not what Adobe promises you can always stop payment without having made a huge perpetual license payment.

     
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    Jul 16, 2013 8:17 PM   in reply to TheCoroner9

    TheCoroner9 wrote:

     

    Guess again - when you are in the Cloud they can monitor and remove your material for any reason.

     

    From the license agreement that Andy Bay posted an excerpt from over in the Adobe Max thread:

    15.1 Adobe, in its sole discretion, may (but has no obligation to) monitor or review the Services and Materials at any time. Without limiting the foregoing, Adobe shall have the right, in its sole discretion, to remove any of Your Material for any reason (or no reason), including if it violates the Terms or any Law.

     

    This deal is getting worse all the time - Lando Calrissian.

     

    Guess I was right before:

     

    "All your pixels are belong to us."

     

    -Your Friendly Adobe Dictator --- "Ha. Ha. Ha. - Ha. Ha. Ha. - Ha. Ha. Ha."

     
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    Jul 16, 2013 8:38 PM   in reply to Brntoki

    This deal is getting worse all the time - Lando Calrissian.

     

    Ya know, just yesterday I heard a commercial come on the TV in the other room for something stating "We give you choices...because we believe our customers come first." and I couldn't help but keep thinking, in the land of Adobe, there are no choices.

     

    Way to go Adobe. Way to build a business. Way to be an example to our upcoming generation of creatives. And way to make the world a better place......for you and only you.

     
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