FM9 Both the .fm and .backup files unexpectedly deleted from the network. Anyone else?

[Karmakat66]

I submitted below as a bug because it has now happened to both me and my colleague. I have copied below the same information from my bug report.

Basic info: FM 9.0p.255, OS 64 bit, Windows 7

We have just upgraded to the new version and this is a serious thing if you don't keep backups! You will never know when it is going to disappear.

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Bug report:
When working with a Framemaker document it is unexpectedly deleted with no reason from the computer/network - this includes the backup.

The user did not delete it and it was an active document. There are different instances where the document would disappear. Below is one example of the steps taken.
Steps to reproduce bug:
1. Opened FM file.
2. Saved as an MIF file.
3. Closed FM file
4. Opened MIF file.
5. Edited the color definitions.
5. Clicked save button to save the mif file back to the source fm file.

Results:
Error message says that the file with extension .fm does not exist or has an unexpected extension. The .lck file exists but the .fm and backup files are gone.
Luckily I had the mif file and could rename it to a .fm file in this instance to recover the document. My colleague lost all versions (.fm and backup).

Expected results: that you would be able to replace the old version that is still on the network or computer.

[Art_Campbell1]

Amanda,

Are you running any type of CMS or version control software?

When you're saying that backup copies have disappeared, are you talking about automatically generated FM *.backup files?

Do you have timed saves turned ON?

[Karmakat66]

Hi Jeff and Art

In answer to your posts.

No CMS, no version control. Unstructured frame. Yes, the automatic backup FM files would disappear. And yes, I have the auto save and timed back up options both turned on.

Answer to the following post:

I was doing a lot of clean up and sometimes I did the color def clean up in the MIF file  and sometimes in the FM file. I can't say for sure when the errors  occurred but it happened a lot. I did look for a pattern but couldn't  find anything concrete. At first I thought I was going too fast for the software, then that was not consistent. I tried a variety of methods to see if I could find a pattern.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

But if you don't mess with the color definitions while doing this MIF-wash, does anything bad happen? If not, then the lesson for MIF-washing is, "Don't do any 'FM' changes while the file is still a MIF; wait and save it back as a .fm, then monkey with settings"

[Van Kurtz]

Amanda,

This is not an answer, but I just want to point out one little thing.

When you open a mif file in FrameMaker and then try to save it, Frame displays the message that it cannot save the file in that format, whether the format selected is mif or fm. The key is that the default file name includes the .mif extension. If one deletes the .mif from the end of the file name, then FrameMaker will happily save it to the fm format. I bring this up because if you are working quickly, you may have misunderstood the message, assuming of course that this is the message you got.....but maybe you really did get the message your report.

Van

[Karmakat66]

Hi Van. I didn't save my file this way and get the message you describe below. I just tried your method and see what you mean. My message was different and based on a different way of saving. Thanks for the info though!

[AxialInfo]

Amanda, to add a little bit to Van's posting, FM9 definitely works differently than earlier versions when it's doing the Save  and/or Save As step, so it could be that you and your colleagues are experiencing a side-effect from that change.

In previous versions it used to drive me NUTS that we had to manually change the file extension when doing the save / save as (change the .mif to .fm or vice versa). In FM 9 that no longer is necessary, because changing the dropdown menu "Save as type" will automatically change the filename extension shown just above.

Could it be that when you are saving the document you type in the full name ("example.fm") but then you don't notice that the "Save as Type" is still showing the "Document 9.0 .fm" selection, or vice versa, and FM gets confused?

Or perhaps are you clicking on Save while you're editing (I'm in the camp that does Ctl-s reflexively, compulsively, and with almost pathological abandon while working, it would take considerable effort to retrain myself out of it). If so, maybe FM is actually saving your .mif as .fm and in the process "silently" changing the file type, so that when you finally do your last "save", it thinks the file is the opposite type?

Sheila

[Van Kurtz]

In FM 9 that no longer is necessary, because changing the dropdown menu "Save as type" will automatically change the filename extension shown just above.

Not quite Sheila.

If you Save As an fm file, you can change the dropdown to mif and the file name changes accordingly.

HOWEVER, if you Save As (or Save) a mif file, the dropdown defaults to fm. If you change the dropdown to fm, the file name remains the same. If you change the dropdown to mif, or course the file name does not change. BUT if you then change the dropdown to fm, the file name changes to .fm. Go figure.

Hence, when I save mif to fm, I have got in to the habit of just deleting the .mif and then saving as fm. Very inconsistent.

[Karmakat66]

And thanks to Sheila too. This was useful information but not how I was working. Just for the record, since we all like to document these things, this is what I did today and previously.

1. Opened the .fm file.

2. File>Save as .mif 9.0

3. Closed the .fm file (and if prompted, saved it)

4. Opened the .mif file.

5. Deleted some color defs as an experiment.

6. Clicked the save button.

7. Clicked in File name field at the end. Entered .fm (previously I also selected the .fm file from the list that displays..)

8. Clicked save>OK to overwrite the file.

9. Deleted the .mif file from my folder.

And of course, I didn't have problems today!

[Akari]

Hi,

I have FrameMaker 10 and my colleagues and I are experiencing a similar problem.  It happens very randomly, but when it happens it is when we update the book or when we try to print. Right now, we are getting around that issue by creating a copy of the entire FrameMaker file folder prior to updating/ generating.  It's a work-around so we would appreciate a more concrete solution.

Thanks!

Akari

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

@Akari - your issue sounds more like a network issue than a FM one. Do you have sufficient rights to the network location where the FM files are? Do you experience disconnection issues with the drives?

[Guest]

I experienced the same problem as Akari in FM 10 and I was not on a network. I was working locally and saved my book changes as I normally do, then regenerated the book. During the regeneration process, FM could not continue regenerating as it could not find a file contained in the book. I checked and double-checked my source folder; the file in question and its backup file were completely missing. This was an active file, too (I'd just made extensive changes to it) and a whole days' work was obliterated in an instant.

After that happened, I instilled Akari's work-around.

I just started using FM 11 and am curious to know if anyone has experienced this issue with FM 11?

[Karmakat66]

Wow. Strange. I was away on holiday, have not had this problem since I originally posted it and then saw HBorque77 post from 2 days ago. Today I have had 3 files, including the backup files, suddenly get deleted from the network when I did a book update. We upgraded to FM11 recently, as well as moved our files to a new server. I have been working with the files indepedently from the book, but as soon as I updated, random files are being deleted. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Have to say that I have never had this happen to me & my FM files are (and have always been) located on our network servers from TCS version 2 to 4. I have noticed some issues with locked files (.lck) being left after closing out FM, but I suspect that's an issue with Windows servers, not FM.

[Matt S - Tech Comm Tools]

Yep, completely unacceptable, but the common thread here is most likely your environment, not FM. In 20 years of Fm, I've not once ever experienced what you have seen nor have I had clients experience it.

I suggest you "sit on" your IT folk until they explain how this could happen and explain how they'll keep you from losing work in the future.

[Karmakat66]

Thanks all, but I don't expect anyone to help me, anywhere. My IT guys expect me to figure it out, and I have no clue why this would happen so randomly

[Matt S - Tech Comm Tools]

Amanda, I noticed something in your original post...

3. Closed FM file

4. Opened MIF file.

5. Edited the color definitions.

5. Clicked save button to save the mif file back to the source fm file.

It sounds from the above like you are opening the MIF in Fm, then saving that file to a .fm file.

Sorry for the explicit instructions here, but...

A MIF file is a text file. Although you may use Fm as a "text" editor, you must be very careful to save the MIF, or txt file back to a Text Only doc via the Save As feature.

I highly recommend using a separate text editor like NotePad (free, of course or NotePad++ (OpenSource) to avoid mistakely saving the text file back as an Fm binary file. Once the file is modified, open the MIF file as you would any other Fm or Word file in Fm and you should be fine.

Apologies if you already knew this, but as written, your steps in the original post would wreak havoc on the files in question.

[Karmakat66]

Thanks for the info, but that was what happend back in 2010..not today! Thanks though...

[Satira17]

We are using FrameMaker 9, and two members of our team have experienced the sudden deletion of files while updating the book (Edit > Update Book).  I can copy the files to my local drive, and update the book, but when I try to update the book files saved on the network, the files disappear.  We have been working off of the same network drive going back to FrameMaker 7.2, and this is the first time we have ever experienced this issue. 

Also, not every book file does this.  We have been unable to determine why some books will update correctly and why some books will have files disappear during the updating process.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

@Satira17 - tell us more about your network & o/s involved. Do you have admin rights to the folders on the network where the files disappear?

[Satira17]

I don't know what specifics you need to know about the network, but we are running Windows 7 64 bit.  We have the same rights to all folders.  i.e.  I have the same rights to folder where book Title X is saved as I do to the folder where book Title Y is saved.  Moreover, both of these books are saved on the same network drive.  The path for both would look like this:

Z:\Technical Publications\Title X\Title X.book

Z:\Technical Publications\Title Y\Title Y.book

Book Title X will have files disappear during updating and Title Y will not.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

If you checked the Security properties of the z:\ folders, do you have “Full Control” or something more limited. What o/s is running on the server that z:\ is located on?

[Satira17]

Our permissions are more limited than Full Control, but again, the permissions are the same for both folders.  If the problem was UAC related, it should happen to both books. 

Also, our IS dept. says the Z: drive is on a standard 2008 R2 file server.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Have you got the network file locking turned on in FM? I forget if you said so or not..

[Satira17]

The Network File Locking check box is selected.  When I searched the help system for those three words, none of the results really seemed to apply to that option.  Can you explain what this preference does?  Is it as simple as this enables FrameMaker to create the .lck file when it is open?