What is the best way to back up images?

[Richnic2]

As a relativly inexperience user of Lightrooom, I find myself confused about backing up images, as opposed to the catalog? Should I use a Hard Drive Publish Service? Simply export to a drive or disc? Copy the main file in "pictures" to a different location? I do back up when importing, but I generally end up deleting photos during processing, and I see no point in keeping copies of the rejects.

Since processing usually requires several sessions in Lightroom, should I back up after each session or wait until I have finished?

Since I work with a Mac, I do have Time Machine for frequent backups, but I would like to have additional backups as well.

If these questions seem naive, please excuse. I'm a fairly inexperienced user of Lightroom.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Dick

[dj_paige]

You need to back up BOTH the images and the catalog file, and you need to make sure that the backups are on a different physical disk than the originals.

I do not consider exporting or publishing to be backups. In my opinion, this is not an acceptable way to go.

You need an automated back up methodology, that doesn't depend on you having the time and energy and remembering to make backups. In Lightroom, you can set the time period for making backups of the catalog to whatever you feel is appropriate, but I wouldn't go more than a week, and if you do a lot of photography, you might want to back up the catalog every night, or every time Lightroom closes. It is entirely up to you. I can't really tell you what frequency is best for you; I only know what is best for me.

You also need to make automatic backups of the photos. Lightroom does not do this for you. You can use third party software (some of which are free) to accomplish this. Again, do not rely on you having the time and remembering to do so.

[areohbee]

dj_paige wrote:

I do not consider exporting or publishing to be backups. In my opinion, this is not an acceptable way to go.

I agree that the built-in Hard Drive export/publishing service would not be appropriate for backups, because:

* Backups would be stripped of folder structure.

* It would re-backup proprietary raw files whenever photo has been edited.

TreeSync Publisher (plugin written by me) however is an excellent way to backup photo files, in my opinion. It has the intelligence needed to auto-select xmp sidecar instead of raw file (if raw file already exists in backup location I mean) when exporting in original format, and source tree structure is maintained. That's how I backup my photo source files.

That said, a 3rd party solution can accomplish the same thing (e.g. Acronis True Image). I just like the convenience of publishing in Lightroom to backup photo files.

Cheers,

Rob

[John Blaustein]

To add to the conversation...

For the past year or so, I've been using a cloud backup service called Backblaze -- www.backblaze.com.  It costs fifty bucks a year, about 14c/day, for unlimited storage.  The initial backup takes several days, but Backblaze works in the background and is completely "invisible" to the user while you work.

I'm on a PC with Windows 7.  I have my LR catalog on my C: drive (SSD).  Image files are on D: (internal).  LR catalog backups, which I do each time LR exits, are also on D:.  I use Microsoft SyncToy to backup my LR catalog and all image files to E: (also internal).  Backblaze is set to backup C: and D:, but not E:.  In addition, I backup the LR catalog and all image files to an external HD, but I only do that from time to time (since Backblaze has a copy of everything).

Backblaze is available on the web and also has an iPhone app.  Restoring one or more files is easy.  I've used it to retrieve a file or two for clients while I am traveling with no access to my office computer.  Backblaze even saves old versions of files for a month.

As for having LR make a backup of image files upon import, I agree with Dick that I reject and delete many original RAW files, so there is no need to keep a backup of those.  After doing an import, I do a quick edit to find the rejects and delete them.  Then I do a SyncToy backup (per my drives as described above).  As soon as the new image files appear on my D: drive, Backblaze sees them and starts backing them up to the cloud.  Once that backup completes, I can confidently delete the files from my memory cards.

I have no connection to Backblaze other than being a very pleased customer.

John

[areohbee]

Yeah - "backup" is kindofa nebulous term.

I mean Lr's 2nd copy (note Adobe's avoidance of the term "backup") is an excellent *import* "backup" because:

* It has all files (even those you deleted on accident, or on purpose but regretfully...).

* It *is* organized by date imported, so you know where to go for files recently imported.

* It's never touched after it's created, so you know those are true originals.

But it's not good as a long term or only backup, because:

* It includes all the rejects which should be disposed of.

* Years after importing and organizing... - import date is no longer a very meaningful organization.

* It won't include xmp sidecars or changed originals.

Anyway, my point is that it's good to have more than one form of backup - archived backups that are never touched may be good, and photo files will be included in complete system backups too, assuming you do those. I also have hi-quality jpegs (exported with xmp embedded) as a form of backup (in case edits go south or originals are inadvertently deleted). Even Lr's preview system I think of as a "last ditch" backup of sorts.

PS

Richnic2 wrote:

Since processing usually requires several sessions in Lightroom, should I back up after each session or wait until I have finished?

My strategy/tactic:

* leave auto-save-xmp disabled (Lr preference), then save xmp manually after each round of "milestone" photo edits (those you'd hate to have to do over) - call that a "session" I guess. Personally, I don't want xmp saved every single time I edit something, so I can use xmp to recover from editing mistakes.
* Backup catalog after finished editing, or if you've made changes to catalog (other than photo edits I mean) that you'd hate to have to do over, e.g. collections.

And for completeness:

* Lr preferences are only saved to disk when you exit Lightroom (and not if Lr crashes before you exit gracefully).

* Make sure you get auxiliary files like presets too.

Cheers,

Rob

[Richnic2]

Rob Cole~

Thank you and thanks to the others who replied for your help and suggestions. I may try TreeSync Publisher as a backup option. At least see how it works. One point, though, I still do not completely understand. If I convert files to DNG or JPEG or TIFF before exporting or publishing, thus embedding the metadata in the image file, why are these not acceptable methods of backing up? Also, given the small--I suspect really small by your standards--size of my photo collection, I doubt that a folder structure more complex than what I already have is really necessary.

As for the cloud, I do upload to both SmugMug and Adobe Revel, but I look at these services mainly as sharing devices and not for backup.

Many thanks again.

~Dick

[dj_paige]

If I convert files to DNG or JPEG or TIFF before exporting or publishing, thus embedding the metadata in the image file, why are these not acceptable methods of backing up?

You cannot via Lightroom convert files to JPEG or TIFF before exporting or publishing, although you can convert to DNG at any time.

In order to make proper backups for future Lightroom use, you must have the original and unedited file (not the edited file that you export or publish) and the catalog file. Your exports are edited versions (and for DNG or RAW, this probably isn't a problem but it is a problem for JPG and TIFF). Furthermore, some metadata will NEVER be written to the file itself (or sidecar file in the case of RAW), these metadata will ONLY ever be stored in the Catalog File itself and not in the photos or sidecar files. And as Rob said in reply #2 ... well, what he said.

Also, given the small--I suspect really small by your standards--size of my photo collection, I doubt that a folder structure more complex than what I already have is really necessary.

I know some people will disagree, but I don't think complexity of your folder structure depends on the size of your photo library. My folder structure is flat -- folders by capture date, and no further complexity. And it will stay that way if my photo collection grows from 25K images now to 250K images at some point in the future. All of my organization is done in Lightroom and not via folders. (And this is true for many people, by the way)

[areohbee]

Hi Dick,

To be clear, as Paige pointed out, you want to be sure to back up the originals, even if you also like having non-original exports (baked jpegs...) as a "backup" of sorts.

If you do use TreeSync Publisher for backing up, the raw backup features (i.e. intelli-choosing xmp vs. original raw) are only enabled when export format is set to 'ORIGINAL'.

Cheers,

Rob

[munclemike]

Please bear with me, I'm a new LR user.  I've backed up all my photos and LR Catalog to another internal drive and also an to an external drive using SyncToy.  As a test I imported one of those backed up photos back into LR.  It came in all right but without any of my edits.  I know they're kept separately in the Catalog but how do I sync the two up?

My goal is backups with all my edits intact.

Thank for the help.

Mike

[dj_paige]

Restoring backup photos to an existing catalog? Re-importing is not the answer. It's never the answer. Just point the catalog to the new location of the photos/folders: http://www.computer-darkroom.com/lr2_find_folder/find-folder.htm

Backups with all edits intact require both backups of the catalog file and photos. Put them back in their original locations, and you're ready to go.

[areohbee]

munclemike wrote:

It came in all right but without any of my edits.

If you'd have included (xmp) metadata along with those, your edits would have been intact.

Summary: edits are (or may be) stored in 3 places:

* Catalog (always and immediately)

* XMP metadata (when saved by you, or automatically if you enable that option which I don't recommend but some people like).

* Exported files when you choose 'All Metadata' export option.

PS - I agree with Paige - don't remove photos from catalog, and you'll "never" (usually) not have to rely on edits stored in the other places.

Rob

[Joshua Cohen]

I would also recommend reading this:

http://macperformanceguide.com/index_topics.html#Backup

[dj_paige]

Hi, Rob, may I add a clarification to your reply?

For some people, edit history is an important thing, and the edit history is only stored in the Catalog file, and not in other places. If it is important to someone, then saving to XMP is not a way to save the edit history; you must restore from the catalog file.

And as long as I'm on this topic, there are other metadata that are not stored in XMP or outside the catalog file as well, such as collections, virtual copies, pick flags, stacking and a few other things.

[munclemike]

OK, but I'm still missing something here.  For now (because I haven't actually lost any data) I just want to SEE the edited photos that I've backed up, in LR.

I did the following:

1) Hit the "+" sign near "folder"

2) Navigate to a folder on my external drive that I've backed up.

3)Select a folder and then on the bottom right of LR click "import"

When they come in, no edits.  I know dj says reimporting is not the way to go but I don't understand his method.  I'm not seeing the "!" or "?" badge anywhere so how do I "point the catalog to the new location of the photos/folders?

[dj_paige]

When they come in, no edits. I know dj says reimporting is not the way to go but I don't understand his method.

So let's not consider importing as the way to make this happen. Waste of time.

There is no ? or ! because the original files are NOT MISSING in your experiment. If you want to connect Lightroom to the backups, then you follow the article I linked to ... scroll down to "Updating Folder Location", the proper instructions are below Tip #4, involving the "Update Folder Location" command.

Also, you said you saved the EDITED photos ... this is not how backups and Lightroom work. For Lightroom to make proper use of backups, they must be the UNEDITED photos.

[areohbee]

dj_paige wrote:

For Lightroom to make proper use of backups, they must be the UNEDITED photos.

I recommend UNEDITED photos WITH EDITS (xmp metadata).

[dj_paige]

That's fine, Rob, I agree ... which doesn't sound like what munclemike said, he said "I just want to SEE the edited photos that I've backed up"

[areohbee]

I interpreted him to mean: upon re-importing photos appeared unedited, thus backed up photos did not included the edit information, which is what saving xmp will remedy - maybe I misunderstood. Neither you nor I is recommending removal from catalog (in fact, just the opposite), so that's not what's at issue here.

I'm talking about post #8 (not post #13) which is the one I had replied to. Indeed some new things were introduced in #13, and perhaps I should stay out of it at this point - I've pretty much said all I have to say.

Cheers,

Rob

[areohbee]

I think munclemike was just trying to ascertain whether his backups had (develop settings and metadata) edits preserved outside the catalog, or so it seemed to me. Indeed, removing from catalog discards additional data which will never be restored when re-importing.

So, at a minimum one needs to backup:

* catalog + photos (beware: once photo is removed from catalog, edits are not recoverable no how).

And, at a maximum one should consider backing up:

* catalog + photos + xmp + export w/all metadata + auxiliary files: presets, preferences, profiles, ...

(that way, if one inadvertently removes a photo (or a bunch of photos) from the catalog, edits are not lost...

Cheers,

Rob