FM Conditional Build Tags Not Processed Correctly in RH

[jthomas666]

I am using TCS 4, fully updated.

I have Frame books that are linked to Robohelp projects; in the RH project FM Conversion settings, I have Apply FrameMaker Conditional Text Built Expressions selected.

In FrameMaker, I have the conditional text set the way I need it, and the content displays correctly.  Two CB tags are used in the content; we'll just call them A and B.  In Frame, CBT A is displayed.  When I update the project in RH, I get CBT B instead.

I then set Frame to display CBT B.  This time, RH correctly displayed CBT B.

Just to try an eliminate random weirdness, I set the entire tst file to unconditional.  It ALL displayed in RH.  But then I re-applied the two CBTs.  Back to square one.

Getting very frustrated w. TCS4.  Never had this problem in earlier versions.

Does anyone have any suggestions?  An option of last resort would be to unselect the Apply FrameMaker Conditional Text Built Expressions option and process CBTs in RH; it appears to work, but would make managing the projects--particularly context IDs--maddening. I prefer to see the content before it's generated.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

What if you set “A” in FM; updated the book(s), then did a “Force Update All” in RH? Does that have any impact?

[jthomas666]

That’s my standard procedure:

In Frame:

Set Conditional build Tags for Book

Apply

Update Book.

Save

Got to RH

Confirm that the Apply FM Build Expression is set

Force Update All

I noticed the problem after doing a Force Update All; I did subsequent testing using a single file. Sorry I didn’t make that clearer.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

No problem – I’m an import guy myself, and I send it all over to RH & then apply the CBT at the time of WebHelp generation. To eliminate a link/import bug, you could try an experiment with a new blank project – set one up and use the settings.isf from your real project, then confirm the Conversion settings and import it all in – then have a look if any “B” stuff got in.

[jthomas666]

Just tried it; same thing happens.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Hmm, I’m seeing the same thing – nothing of the FM conditions shows up in RH if you use that “look at FM conditions” flag in the Conversion Settings. Log a bug and bring them all over & set them in the RH output.

[Matt S - Tech Comm Tools]

It's an either/or setting..., the response from Engineering will be "As Designed"

If you choose to manage conditions within Fm, set the flag.

If you choose to let the RoboHelp SSL set the conditions, do not use the flag.

I prefer the latter, but if you have conditional text within generated docs (like TOC entries that exist in print, but not online) then you'll likely set the flag in conversion settings.

[jthomas666]

The problem is that when I set the flag, RH isn’t apply the CBT expression correctly.

I’ve even tried deleted the project cache file in case that had gotten messed up.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Ok just tested by adding a new condition tag to the FM content, marking up some paragraphs and hiding it in FM. When I import the book with the setting set to “use FM conditions” then the tag doesn’t come over, but the content is hidden (i.e. not in RH at all).

[jthomas666]

Yeah, I did some testing with a new frame file, no template, bare bones, and it works.

So, as best I can determine, I am doing something wrong in my project settings.

After some testing, here’s what appears to be going on:

Here are my project settings:

Our manuals use a number of fonts that aren’t in public domain. To make things easier on all concerned, I created a default.css for our online help that mirrors our FrameMaker style, but uses windows-standard fonts.

The FM template is a frame version of the same thing. I apply that so that when I view topics in RoboHelp, they will have the online help fonts, not the PDF fonts. In addition, it gets the second level bullets looking correct; at this point, I’m not even sure how, but it does. I can define a custom bullet in Frame, but I haven’t figured out how to do it in RH or in a CSS.

Now, if I leave the template selected, as above, then I get this in Robohelp:

On the negative side, I’ve got the conditional text problem.

On the plus side, what I see here mirrors what I get in the finished product. I generally have tight deadlines, so being able to see the finished format in Frame is fairly valuable for me—particularly since the style differs from the Frame source files.

Now, if I Deselect the Frame template option on the project settings and then update, here’s what I get in Robohelp:

Plus: Conditional Text is processed correctly.

Minus: Style is all over the place.

In the finished output, the style is correct—I apply the css at generation—but the bullets are wonky:

It may not display correctly, but below, the bullet is a funky lower case m; it is supposed to be a double greater-than symbol.

So apparently it’s the combination of the template and css at the time of update that is messing with processing CBT. Now I just have to figure out how to resolve that while getting the correct bullet in the output.

This is why I drink, people.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

PS - none of your screen shots made it through - you probably replied to me via e-mail; you need to use the camera icon in the web interface.

[jthomas666]

OK, we'll try again

Yeah, I did some testing with a new frame file, no template, bare bones, and it works.

So, as best I can determine, I am doing something wrong in my project settings.

After some testing, here’s what appears to be going on:

Here are my project settings:

Our manuals use a number of fonts that aren’t in public domain.  To make things easier on all concerned, I created a default.css for our online help that mirrors our FrameMaker style, but uses windows-standard fonts.

The FM template is a frame version of the same thing.  I apply that so that when I view topics in RoboHelp, they will have the online help fonts, not the PDF fonts. In addition, it gets the second level bullets looking correct; at this point, I’m not even sure how, but it does. I can define a custom bullet in Frame, but I haven’t figured out how to do it in RH or in a CSS.

Now, if I leave the template selected, as above, then I get this in Robohelp:

On the negative side, I’ve got the conditional text problem.

On the plus side, what I see here mirrors what I get in the finished product. I generally have tight deadlines, so being able to see the finished format in Frame is fairly valuable for me—particularly since the style differs from the Frame source files.

Now, if I Deselect the Frame template option on the project settings and then update, here’s what I get in Robohelp:

Plus:  Conditional Text is processed correctly.

Minus: Style is all over the place.

In the finished output, the style is correct—I apply the css at generation—but the bullets are wonky:

It may not display correctly, but below, the bullet is a funky lower case m; it is supposed to be a double greater-than symbol.

So apparently it’s the combination of the template and css at the time of update that is messing with processing CBT. Now I just have to figure out how to resolve that while getting the correct bullet in the output.

This is why I drink, people.

[Matt S - Tech Comm Tools]

I troubleshoot this sort of thing for folks all the time.

Your CSS, template, and conditional text setting choices are at odds with each other.

If you'd like to spend an hour or two and have it straightened out, please contact me offline.

-Matt

[starrd]

Guys:

I'm testing the same thing and coming up with the same results. It did not occur in TCS3.  It is *not* ok to force us to not use a template -- I tried setting the conditional expression in the template and that did not help either.  I think this is a bug since it worked beautifully before and is epically failing in TCS 4.0 with the same template and tags.  I am wondering if anyone has come up with a specific workaround that allows the templates and expressions to function as expected, or whether a bug report is in order?

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

I think we already concluded it was a bug – go ahead and add your voice to the pile of complaints. But probably don’t hold your breath waiting for a TCS4 fix.

[starrd]

Thanks Jeff:

Yes, I will add my voice to the pile. I am afraid I can be a bit irritating.   I was just hoping that Matt has some magical workaround as his last post implied.

[riteshksriv]

When you apply a frame template, RH copies the template file in the project folder and it uses that file for future import/update of FM files.

Any future modifications to the original template file will not reflect in the updates.

You might have browsed the template file when it had "B" tag in show and "A" tag in hide mode. So every-time you update your FM files in RH using the same template, it will hide A and show B.

You will have to browse the template file again if you are modifying the original template file.

Please see if this is the issue.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

@matt - the issue I'm seeing is if you let FM set the conditions, you're not seeing that condition come over to RH; I'm pretty sure it used to send over the "shown" FM condition in the list and screen out any other "hidden" ones. I'll have to do another test to check the content filtering.