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RH apparently doesn't support FM text insets or other "referenced content"

Community Beginner ,
Feb 05, 2014 Feb 05, 2014

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This is a new topic branching off of http://forums.adobe.com/message/6088200#6088200

(Cross-posted to FrameUsers, Adobe RoboHelp "FrameMaker Integration" forum, and RoboHelp bug report)

What follows are some important limitations regarding FrameMaker books that are linked via TCS 4 to a Robohelp project to produce online Help output (HTML Help, WebHelp, etc.).

After a fair amount of testing and research, it seems that RoboHelp is incompatible with *any* FM text insets or "referenced content" such as Excel spreadsheets. Plus, there may be a serious limitation with cross-references in general that might require you to alter the folder structure of your FM project.

In several text insets in my FM book, I have cross-references to a topic outside of the inset. In FM, the links work and everything updates/generates with no errors. The links work in PDF. But in the HTML Help output from RoboHelp, some (but not all) of the cross references are broken--they look like links, but the cursor does not change to a pointing finger and no jump occurs when you click. Looking at the source HTML, the href command is missing for those particular links.

And although the FM "Heading & Page" cross-refs are set to convert to just <$paratext> in RH, some (but not all) of the broken HTML Help links retain the "on page x" part of the FM style. Again, other cross-refs in the insets convert correctly and are active. Even within the *same inset*, some cross-refs convert correctly, and some don't.

An MVP replied to my inquiry on the RoboHelp/FrameMaker Integration forum at the Adobe Community site, suggesting that I shorten the absolute paths for the target files to 35 characters or less, as he and others on the forum also had some random cross-refs that didn't work, and shortening the path seemed to clear most of them up. I moved my "Documents" and "Images" folders up the tree to one level away from the drive letter. (Grudgingly, I'll admit, as it whacked my longstanding project folder structure.) Unfortunately, this didn't work; after updating in RH and generating HTML Help, the same links were broken. See http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1378783 This seems like another serious limitation that could cause pain if you have an established, "verbose" file/folder-naming conventions. I'm leery of restoring my former folder structure out of the fear of breaking more cross-refs.

So I started digging around more in the forums and Help. Here's what I found:

- Other users found that the mere presence of insets would produce the same symptoms in subsequent cross-references in a FM file. Note that these cross-refs are not in an inset, but in text following an inset. So that seems to negate using insets at all in a FM/RH linked workflow. See http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1137497

- Another user imported an Excel spreadsheet into FM as an object. In FM, when the Excel icon is clicked, Excel opens the spreadsheet. But When linking to FrameMaker from Robohelp to create a Robohelp project, that Excel icon gets pulled into RH as an image without the link to Excel. So it seems like it is more than just text insets that fail.

See http://forums.adobe.com/message/6088014#6088014#6088014

- When I opened the Help for the Conversion Settings dialog box in RoboHelp to try to solve a different cross-ref issue, I noticed the following topic tucked under the "Convert FrameMaker cross-reference formats to RoboHelp styles" topic:

"Content reference

"Text or files that you have inserted into the FrameMaker documents as content references appear as part of the topics where they are referenced. They do not appear as references in the online Help outputs."

It took a while to sink in, because "content reference" is not conventional FM terminology, but this vaguely-worded statement buried deep in the Help seems to be saying that text insets are not supported in HTML Help output or any other online Help output. Apparently this at least includes Excel spreatsheets, too. It's also reasonably possible that it would include Word docs, PDFs, or other items imported as objects. Not sure about that, as no examples of "content references" are given, but other users would probably be interested.

Understand that I'm just trying to share what the problems are, share what I tried, and provide an aggregation of what I learned. This info was not forthcoming or obvious when I was shopping tools. Hopefully this might help someone else with their decision making when selecting tools.

In fact, I'd be overjoyed to be wrong about all of this. Text insets are such a useful feature in a single-source workflow, especially if the software you are documenting uses the same widget in multiple modules, has common UI elements in both client and server dashboards, not to mention all of the re-used boilerplate legal/marketing/licensing text, etc.--the list goes on and on. The "edit once, update many" model is too efficient for the TCS Development team to just overlook. In one of the forum threads, another commenter said he designs around this, avoiding insets. But that saddles you with a potentially big maintenance burden at editing time, and makes it necessary to add some "Comment" conditional reminder: "This text is repeated in x, y, and z. If you edit here, edit there, too." Not fun, and prone to mistakes.

Though there may be workarounds to some of these problems, none are as good as making insets work in RoboHelp.

Is any of this fixed in TCS 5? If so, I'd think it unfair to pay for an upgrade to get the fix.

I'm filing a bug report with Adobe, not a feature request, as these issues involve the core competency of TCS with regard to single sourcing, and require budensome workarounds for stuff that should just work right out of the box.

Thanks.

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New Here ,
Apr 14, 2014 Apr 14, 2014

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Hi,

Do you have any update on this issue to share?

I'm facing the same problem - hyperlinks after a text inset do not work if the hyperlink is linked to another FM document.

What remains after conversion is a text that looks like a hyperlink but without href destination. This is a half done job!

I agree with you totally that this is a core function and there is no logic why it does not work.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 15, 2014 Apr 15, 2014

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See my response on this thread – http://forums.adobe.com/message/6298782#6298782

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New Here ,
Apr 15, 2014 Apr 15, 2014

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Thanks Jeff.

My issue is quite different. The x-ref is outside the text inset, not part of the text inset. The x-ref is inserted in the main content BUT after a text inset. X-ref works fine before the text inset. The issue is after the text inset, whatever x-ref that is linking to another FM doc content, it will return with an empty hyperlink - meaning it recognises it is a link but with missing href assignment. However, x-ref works after the text inset if it is pointing to a location within the same fm document. Every x-ref (outside of text inset) works fine if the text inset is removed.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 16, 2014 Apr 16, 2014

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Not quite sure why you think I thought it was different – you had just doubled posted the same issue into 2 threads – this one & the one I answered you on.

· My answer remains the same – “I would set up a simple set of files to test this with TCS5 (download a trial on a machine that doesn’t have any TCS products on it) and if you can reproduce the behaviour, report it as a bug and send the files to the TCS Support group. They’re not going to be patching TCS4 now that 5 is out.”

I get what you’re saying – if you have a doc in a book that is like:

Content

Content

Text inset

Content

Xref to another FM doc in the same book

Xref to another place within the same doc

I’m saying if you can reproduce this example in a simple lorsum book in TCS5, then log it & forward the example book to tcs.support@adobe.com

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New Here ,
Apr 16, 2014 Apr 16, 2014

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Jeff, thanks for following up. Sorry for double-posting. I get it now. I submitted the bug and they recommended that I should upgrade to TCS5 to get the fix.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 17, 2014 Apr 17, 2014

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Did they confirm that it actually has been fixed in TCS5? I’d check it on a demo copy to be sure.

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New Here ,
Apr 20, 2014 Apr 20, 2014

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Yep. They said they fixed it in TC5. I have yet to confirm it. For some reason, I could not download it last week and today as well. I will update when it is up and running. Thanks!

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Participant ,
May 15, 2014 May 15, 2014

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Thanks.

Where does Adobe claim that the 25-character (or ##-character) limit on path names for cross-referenced insets from FM to RH is no longer a constraint on cross references working correctly within RH output?

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Community Expert ,
May 15, 2014 May 15, 2014

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@max_drawdown – it doesn’t – it was one of those hidden “features” ;>)

But that’s not the issue that @KaiLeong was running into – his was the bug that xrefs after text insets failed to work when brought over into RH. TCS5 supposedly fixed that one.

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Participant ,
May 15, 2014 May 15, 2014

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@jeff_coatsworth,

Thanks!  Today, complexity > caffeine intake.

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New Here ,
May 12, 2014 May 12, 2014

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Does anybody have any news on this topic?

I would like to add  a point to the above summary. It seems like I am facing another problem resulting from the issue Robohelp has when handling text insets. Every time I generate content from a FrameMaker book using FM text insets around 20% of the referenced images are replaced with white placeholders in RoboHelp (seems to relate especially to images using FrameMaker graphic elements such as lines and arrows). Whenever I convert the text insets into plain text prior to generating content all the images are displayed correctly.

I checked the problem with the new trial version incl. latest update and the behavior remains the same. This issue is not fixed for TCS5.

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New Here ,
May 13, 2014 May 13, 2014

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You should submit a bug issue to them.

For best practice, the image in the anchored frame should only have one entity i.e., the image itself. The added arrows or boxes in FM do not usually come out as you like it to be in RH. I would add the arrows or boxes in Photoshop (or equivalent) and export it as jpeg and this can be used in text insets without any RH issue.

Hope this helps.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 13, 2014 Aug 13, 2014

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Since Fm12 publishes directly to electronic outputs, perhaps avoiding Rh entirely is your most prudent course of action.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 13, 2014 Aug 13, 2014

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@Matt – I have a suspicious feeling that direct output from FM probably has the same limitations as the FM to RH workflow (since all the signs are that the engine in FM driving it is derived from RH)

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New Here ,
Sep 12, 2014 Sep 12, 2014

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I just experienced FM text frames also interfering with numbered steps. If the text frame marker was in a step, the step number would not display in the RoboHelp WebHelp output.  For example, if the text frame was in step 2, the numbers in the output would be step 1, no step 2 number, step 3, step 4, etc. 

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Community Expert ,
Sep 12, 2014 Sep 12, 2014

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That may depend on how the Conversion settings are handling Autonumbering – I suspect that bringing them over as “Convert to Text” may have a better chance of RH displaying them properly (or at all).

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New Here ,
Sep 12, 2014 Sep 12, 2014

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I checked - Convert Autonumber to Text is selected for the paragraph tag for the steps.

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