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Is it just me or ....

Nov 15, 2007 9:25 AM

I have been working with DW CS3, PHP, and MySQL for the past few months. I'm not new to programming or tools, and have used many databases extensively in corporate environments. I am just finding that using DW is a very prickly affair. Any small tweak I make can break functionality. This is just a general observation and question. Maybe it's just the PHP environment in general, I don't know. I just felt I needed to see what others are seeing. My latest angst I just posted and still not seeing how adding a simple recordset is preventing pages from appearing (suddenly). Just when I think I can develop really fast with DW I get blindsided with small non-obvious things that cost days at a time. Arrggghhh.
 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 15, 2007 9:55 AM   in reply to Guest
    I think Macromedia/Adobe are so busy adding "new" features that they lose
    site of what the core functions of DW are and don't bother to work on them
    (if at all) to improve them.


    "davidbarrackphoto" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:fhhvej$i69$1@forums.macromedia.com...
    >I have been working with DW CS3, PHP, and MySQL for the past few months.
    >I'm


     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 15, 2007 10:14 AM   in reply to Guest
    davidbarrackphoto wrote:
    > Any small tweak I make can break functionality. This is just a
    > general observation and question. Maybe it's just the PHP environment in
    > general, I don't know.

    Dreamweaver makes extensive use of JavaScript in the background to
    display values in the Property inspector and other panels. JavaScript is
    also used to populate the Server Behaviors and Bindings panels. The
    bigger and more complex your page, the more strain you put on that
    JavaScript infrastructure.

    I don't know if there's a physical limit to the number of lines of code
    or elements that you can have on a page, but Dreamweaver isn't designed
    as a coding environment for heavy duty applications. The server
    behaviors are excellent for rapid prototyping or for building pages of
    medium complexity. For anything more ambitious, you should either be
    working in Code view or using a dedicated PHP IDE, such as PhpED or
    EclipsePHP.

    --
    David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
    Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
    Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
    http://foundationphp.com/
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 15, 2007 12:18 PM   in reply to Guest
    >I think Macromedia/Adobe are so busy adding "new" features that they lose
    >site of what the core functions of DW are and don't bother to work on them
    >(if at all) to improve them.

    I think [most any large software corporation] are so busy adding "new"
    features that they lose site of what the core functions of DW are and don't
    bother to work on them (if at all) to improve them.

    ;o)

    -Darrel


     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 15, 2007 2:49 PM   in reply to Newsgroup_User
    Your best bet is to use a PHP IDE to do the development and DW for the
    design.

    "davidbarrackphoto" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:fhie9l$7th$1@forums.macromedia.com...
    > Do you suggest to use one of the PHP IDEs you mention in conjunction with
    > or in
    > lieu of Dreamweaver? I have been picking up DW because I thought it could
    > handle both the design and implementation of a web site. Even one that is
    > fairly involved. I am finding that with DW I have to walk on eggshells
    > and
    > hope to X&*@ that some change I make will not result in a page showing up
    > blank
    > or getting a dreaded exclamation mark because I burped too loud or
    > something.
    >


     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 15, 2007 3:09 PM   in reply to Newsgroup_User
    davidbarrackphoto wrote:
    > Do you suggest to use one of the PHP IDEs you mention in conjunction with or in
    > lieu of Dreamweaver?

    It depends entirely on what you want to do. One of the problems with
    many people who use Dreamweaver is that they have the mistaken belief
    that Dreamweaver "handles everything for you". Wrong. Dreamweaver is a
    tool like a sculptor's chisel or a plasterer's trowel. Used well, it
    works brilliantly. Used with insufficient knowledge, it can get you into
    deep trouble.

    That's not to say that Dreamweaver is perfect. There are definitely
    things that could be improved. But if you understand the code that is
    being created, you'll get far more out of it.

    To get back to your original question, though, I use both Dreamweaver
    and PhpED. Dreamweaver is ideal for working on projects where design is
    the main focus. PhpED, on the other hand, is useless for design, but
    it's brilliant for working with complex hand-coded applications.

    Understand the tools you're working with, and choose the right one for
    the job.

    > I am finding that with DW I have to walk on eggshells and
    > hope to X&*@ that some change I make will not result in a page showing up blank
    > or getting a dreaded exclamation mark because I burped too loud or something.

    It sounds as though you're relying too heavily on Dreamweaver's
    automatic code generation. Interestingly, the Adobe Press book on
    ColdFusion goes out of its way to teach readers *not* to use Dreamweaver
    server behaviors. This isn't an admission by Adobe that there's a
    problem with the automatically generated code. The point being made is
    that you should understand the code that's being generated on your
    behalf. Use the automatically generated code where appropriate, but hand
    code where it makes more sense.

    Probably not the response you were hoping for, but - as many have
    pointed out here - the marketing hype about any software taking care of
    everything for you is often misleading. It's like using an electronic
    calculator. Without an understanding of basic mathematics, you have no
    way of realizing that the answer is wrong if you accidentally hit the
    wrong key.

    --
    David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
    Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
    Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
    http://foundationphp.com/
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2007 3:00 PM   in reply to Newsgroup_User
    davidbarrackphoto wrote:
    > David - Thank for your insight. When you use PhpEd, do you use it in
    > conjunction with DW, meaning you do the design and prototyping and then move to
    > PhpEd with the stubs from DW?

    For one or two recordsets on a page, I stick with DW. For heavy duty PHP
    coding, such as the creation or editing of classes, I use PhpED.

    > I'm not sure why DW doesn't put most of their
    > code in includes so it's clear what's their stuff versus added by others.

    I think that the reason is probably historical. Originally, ASP, PHP,
    and ColdFusion were regarded as a way of embedding a small amount of
    dynamic functionality into a web page. The concept of separating the
    business code from the presentation has spread more recently. Because of
    the way that Dreamweaver has developed, splitting the two would involve
    a lot of work. However, the XSL Transformation server behavior
    introduced in DW8 does move most of the code into external files.

    --
    David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
    Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
    Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
    http://foundationphp.com/
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2007 11:39 PM   in reply to Guest
    I used to work primarily with ASP and I now work with PHP. I have noticed that the PHP enviornment is much more "picky" than the ASP enviornment with DW. It's also a whole lot slower. When I'm working with pages that have insert behaviors or something like that, everytime I click on a form field it has to connect to the database and update. I find it quicker when I need to edit forms to remove the insert behavior, make all my changes, then re-add the behavior. Never had to do petty stuff like that on the ASP side.

    As for blank pages I tend to get this sometimes but I've found that if you close the page and re-open it it's fine again. That can be a scary thing to do...just make sure you have a nice backup set on hand at all times. This is a good idea regardless.
     
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