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Tami Settergren
Tami Settergren
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Bold in Character Tag doesn't work in cross-referenced text

Jun 20, 2012 1:07 PM

Tags: #bold #cross_reference #character_tag

Hi there,

 

I'm using cross references to insert sections of text that are repeated in two chapters. The referenced text includes bold text that is defined in a Character Tag. The chapter where I'm inserting a reference to the text has the exact same Character Tag in its Character Catalog (I imported the character formats to be sure). But the bolding goes away in the cross-referenced text. Any ideas on how to make the bolding show up?

 

Thanks,

 

Tami

905 Views   11 Replies   Latest reply: Tami Settergren, Jun 25, 2012 2:48 PM
 
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  • Error7103
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    1. Error7103,
    Jun 21, 2012 6:31 AM   in reply to Tami Settergren
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    Neither Character Formats nor text attributes caused by Variables seem to be preserved on Xref.

     

    What would work, however, is to put the text in an external .fm file and bring it in as an inset.

     
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  • Tami Settergren
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    2. Tami Settergren,
    Jun 21, 2012 8:09 AM   in reply to Error7103
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    Ok, thanks 7103. Certain aspects of character formats are preserved. For example, the cross-referenced text includes custom font characters that are defined in a Character Tag, and those work fine. But not the bold text, which is also defined in a Character Tag. Strange.

     

    I thought about using an inset, but that would be awkward, to have a separate document just for a few items that are repeated in the middle of a couple lists.

     
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  • Error7103
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    3. Error7103,
    Jun 21, 2012 8:37 AM   in reply to Tami Settergren
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    > For example, the cross-referenced text includes custom font characters that are defined in a Character Tag, and those work fine. But not the bold text, which is also defined in a Character Tag. Strange.

     

    Strange indeed. The font name change is preserved in Xref if it's done as a Character Format, but not as a local override in the source text.

     

    So this suggests yet another hack. If you do the bold as a separately named font, say Palatino Black, and invoked via Character Format, it might come across.

     
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  • Error7103
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    4. Error7103,
    Jun 21, 2012 8:45 AM   in reply to Error7103
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    and stranger ...

     

    I defined a Ch Fmt that had Angle, Weight, Variation, Color, Underline, Overline, Strike, Change, Super, and Small Caps elected.

     

    The Xref appears to have honored only the Superscript and the Small Caps .

     

    Somebody thought long and hard before architecting this ...

     

    ... and then neglected to document it.

     
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  • Tami Settergren
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    5. Tami Settergren,
    Jun 21, 2012 9:04 AM   in reply to Error7103
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    Nice! Sounds like a feature request is in order. Thanks for looking into that.

     

    I want to try using the bold version of my Frutiger font in the Character Tag, but it doesn't show up in the font menu in FM. Only the regular, light, and ultrablack versions show (ultrablack is scary looking, so I won't use that). I'll poke around and see if I can get it to show.

     
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  • Tami Settergren
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    6. Tami Settergren,
    Jun 21, 2012 9:11 AM   in reply to Tami Settergren
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    I tried using ultrablack to see if it came through, and it did. So if I can get the bold version in there, that should solve the problem.

     
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  • Error7103
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    7. Error7103,
    Jun 21, 2012 9:38 AM   in reply to Tami Settergren
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    The Bold font will have to differ by name in the Font Family pulldown, not just in the Weight pulldown.

     

    I'd make a copy of (just guessing) "frut_b.ttf" as "fruti_b.ttf"

    Get a font renaming app.

    Rename the font internal name from "Frutiger Bold" to "Fruti Bold".

    Install fruti_b.ttf.

     

    Just renaming the font filename won't work. You need to alter the internal structure.

     
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  • Tami Settergren
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    8. Tami Settergren,
    Jun 21, 2012 9:49 AM   in reply to Error7103
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    The font name is Frutiger 65 Bold, FTB____.PFM. I notice that none of the bold versions of fonts show in FM, except for the Kozuka family, which are OpenType fonts.

     
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  • Tami Settergren
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    9. Tami Settergren,
    Jun 21, 2012 11:08 AM   in reply to Tami Settergren
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    When I install the .ttf versions of Frutiger, Frutiger 65 Bold is available in Frame, as are all the other variations that aren't available when the .pfm versions are installed. So this solves my original problem, although now I'll need to update all my docs to use 65 Bold instead of bolded 45, because now I can't apply bolding to Frutiger 45. I guess it wants me to use 65 Bold. Oh well.

     
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  • Error7103
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    10. Error7103,
    Jun 24, 2012 8:29 AM   in reply to Error7103
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    > The Xref appears to have honored only the Superscript and the Small Caps ...

     

    I did another test, and the following are honored in Cross-References:

    Family

    Small Caps, Lowercase, Uppercase

    Spread

    Stretch

    Superscript, Subscript

     

    This works between files, in which case the local file can have different definition for the Character Format named.

     

    It wasn't clear if these were honored: Pair Kern, Language

     

    No other Character Format options were honored.

    No source Paragraph Designer attributes were honored.

    No local overrides were honored (well, actually, I saw a font come in on insertion, but it vanished on Update).

     

    The above was using a simple <$paratext> Xref format. If your Xref format includes a Character Format that conflicts with the Character Format at the source, the source prevails.

     

    If the Xref format was, say, <Symbol><$paratext>, the format's Symbol font changed all the incoming text that used a default font, but did NOT override a Character Format:Family [Albertus] at the source. Interesting.

     
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  • Tami Settergren
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    11. Tami Settergren,
    Jun 25, 2012 2:48 PM   in reply to Error7103
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    That's all really good to know, thanks 7103. Strange that bold and others aren't honored.

     
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