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exporting 24bit/96kHz audio from CS5.5 for SD DVD?

Jul 24, 2012 12:43 PM

Hi, I'm trying to export a timeline with 24bit/96kHz for encoding to SD DVD. Using AME to encode before importing assets into Encore, I see nothing but 48kHz. Ditto for BRD export. Is that normal? I do have a Matrox MXO2 mini installed which does not support 96kHz but I started a new, non-Matrox project and exported the project into that and deleted render files and re-rendered. Same thing: no 96kHz audio encode option.  Yet, even SD DVD has always supported 96kHz audio.

 

It doesn't even look like AME allows exporting an "audio only" file with 96kHz that is compatible with DVD.

 

DVD supports uncompressed PCM audio but alas my total exportable file size would be just under 9GB and dual layer DVD supports 8.5GB so it's too big a file to do that. And when I imported the whole timeline (vid+aud) into Encore using Bridge, it shows the Audio as "Untranscoded" which I assume means Encore will definitely transcode it. Note: I imported the timeline into Encore using Bridge and then separately imported an MPEG-2 DVD transcode done in AME and then deleted its audio file and replaced it with previously "Bridge-transferred" timeline. So, Encore timeline consists of an AME encoded video track and an uncompressed audio portion of the Premiere timeline. But again, I assume that even if the estimated resulting file size was not too big, Encore would still encode the audio track. (Encore shows the video as "Don't Transcode" because I already encoded it wity AME.

 

Is there anyway on Earth to use Adobe CS5.5 suite to make a DVD with 96kHz audio?

 

Thanks for any help from people who have actual experience and insight on doing this. Speculation is not what I'm after. Surely someone around here has made a DVD with 24bit/96kHz audio. I recorded a symphony orchestra with a Sound Devices 788T in BWF at above spec and my exec produder wants to hear my audio on his audiophile system with tubes and really expensive speakers. I do too. This is lame if I cannot.  

 

Thanks! 

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 1:15 PM   in reply to artistdomain

    While I don't claim experience doing this, I just tried the workflow and looks good so far.

     

    From Premiere, File > Export > Media to get into AME

     

    In AME, choose Windows Waveform. The default preset is 48k. Go down to audio settings and there are a BUNCH of other options. Select 96k and export your 96k wav file.

     

    Export to "MPEG-2 for DVD" as you normally would. Yes, this produces 48k audio. We don't care.

     

    Open Encore and "Import as Asset" and select the .m2v video clip, and your 96k .wav (forget about the 48k file, not using it).

     

    In Encore, the .m2v will say "Don't Transcode", while the audio will say "Untranscoded". This is because Dolby Digital is the DEFAULT for audio.

     

    Go to File > Project Settings > Default Trancode Settings. Change AUDIO to PCM. Now your audio asset will say "Don't Transcode".

     

    Have not tried burning/playing a DVD with 96k, but this ought to do it

     

    Jeff Pulera

    Safe Harbor Computers

     

    PS - I did a BUILD as FOLDER, then Imported resulting .vob into Premiere CS6 and checked Properties and audio shows as 96k. I think we have a solid solution.

     

    PSS - realized you wanted 24-bit. Exported 96k, 24-bit wav from AME and imported to Encore. Wants to transcode to 96k 16-bit, can't find any 24-bit audio support in Encore, sorry.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 1:27 PM   in reply to artistdomain

    Note I'm on CS6. Did some research and found postings about Encore and 96k 24bit and here is the answer: from AME, encode the audio in the AIFF format. Just tried it. Imported into Encore, burned to folder, imported .vob into Premiere and Properties say the audio is indeed 96K 24 bit stereo! So 24 bit PCM (wav) gets Transcoded in Encore, but an AIFF file does not!

     

    Can't help with compiling errors. Oh, make sure the wav files are smaller than 2GB.

     

    Jeff Pulera

    Safe Harbor Computers

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 2:03 PM   in reply to artistdomain

    I could be wrong, but I believe that even in these modern times with 64-bit OS and all, that .wav files have a 2GB limitation and given the length of your project, that could very well be the issue.

     

    Try to export just a short sample and see if it still throws errors

     

    Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 2:23 PM   in reply to SAFEHARBOR11

    I just put some clips on the timeline totalling 2.5 hours and tried to export the 96k 24-bit .aiff file and got an ERROR. Shortened it up to just over an hour and the export worked, but resulted in a file size of over 2GB! So you are looking at about 4GB just for audio on your project. This would require a Dual-Layer disc.

     

    Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 25, 2012 7:18 AM   in reply to artistdomain

    I just did a Google search and it appears that regardless of operating system or anything else, the .wav file format is limited to 4GB in size, though a lot of software programs cut it off at 2GB (2GB was the limit with older operating systems).

     

    As for the 96k audio support, I can understand your frustration as an audiophile, but if you can step back and look at this from the view of the AVERAGE video producer, you are in a small minority. Video cameras record audio at a max of 48k, so why would a video capture card support anything higher? Only MOTU does, and that is because they are first and foremost an AUDIO device company. That is their strength and focus.

     

    As we have discovered, the 96k 24-bit wav audio file is HUGE, therefore not practical for most DVD applications as it takes up all the space on the disc, leaving little room for quality video. You are in a niche, producing DVDs for audiophiles. I also read that even though 96k audio is an option for DVD, all players are NOT required to support it. Many will claim to but in fact truncate the audio back down to 16 bit for playback.

     

    Please note that with CS6, Adobe now uses Mercury Transmit to interface with third-party cards, so MXO2 can now use ANY of the Adobe-native Sequence presets, so you ought to be able to specify 96k audio in the timeline, though Matrox is not set up to play at that rate.

     

    As for MAX encoding of H.264 files, a new Core i7 PC with Nvidia GPU acceleration will do it faster natively, so that technology is becoming obsolete, unless you have an older computer or laptop that can really benefit from the acceleration.

     

    I certainly appreciate that you are producing fantastic audio and hope you are able to realize your goal of putting the high fidelity out on DVD.

     

    Jeff Pulera

    Safe Harbor

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 25, 2012 11:54 AM   in reply to artistdomain

    I see you are using CS5.5, so keep in mind that if you upgrade to CS6 at some point, the MXO2 will become more transparent using the Mercury Transmit - you no longer need a Matrox Sequence Preset, just edit in any Adobe sequence and it always monitors out of MXO2!

     

    Regarding MAX encoding, Matrox says "Up to 5x Faster", but that of course is on an older machine. The gap between MAX and native encode speeds has been steadily decreasing the last couple of years as computers got faster. I did the benchmarks myself, and have been doing them the past few years on diffferent machines and watching the export times get closer to one another as machines got faster.

     

    The test is simple - Export a sample timeline to the native "H.264 for Blu-ray" format and time it out, then export the same timeline using a Matrox H.264 preset, matching the encode parameters to make it even. On my 2011-vintage Core i7-2600 machine, YouTube HD exports are roughly realtime, while 1080i Blu-ray might take 1.5x realtime. On a new Core-i7 3930k (6-core) machine with Quadro 4000 GPU, Blu-ray export is now a little faster than realtime natively! Your processor is first-gen, so MAX performance will help you out for sure.

     

    MAX is still very beneficial to anyone using Mac, older PC workstations, or laptops. Also, MAX allows CAPTURE direct to H.264, which may be useful to some people, for instance capturing an HDV tape as H.264 for Blu-ray, ready to drop into Encore to burn. No transcode needed!

     

    Back to the 96k/24 bit thing, I think it would be fair to say that maybe only 1 in 5000 Encore users would ever be interested in doing what you are doing. Seriously. I've been authoring DVDs almost since they came out, and have never had a need or interest in going beyond the default 48k settings, nor has anyone I know or any customers I help. You'd have to have the 96k source files to start with, meaning a separate recording altogether. While it is not a direct option when exporting to DVD, I've demonstrated that it can be done very quickly and easily by just exporting a separate audio clip. Unless someone has a very nice audio setup on their home theater, and has a trained ear, I'd guess that most people would never know the difference between very good 48k audio and 96k audio. I just shot a dance recital and the audio engineer gave me a .wav file of the final mix and I was blown away! It sounded far superior to any live audio recording I have ever captured on my own.

     

    Regarding Nvidia SDI output, a Quadro 4000 SDI card is $4700, plus monitors are very expensive, so you just might want to reconsider Matrox and a calibrated HDMI display.

     

    Jeff

     
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