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ProRes and DNxHD on a PC

Aug 15, 2012 2:50 PM

Tags: #pc #cs6 #prores #dnxhd

Hi all,

 

 

Sorry if this questions had been asked already, I've searched the forum and didn't found anything useful.

 

1. Can I encode and decode (read & write) to ProRes (especially 422) on a PC with Premiere CS6/other way?

 

2. Can I encode and decode (read & write) to DNxHD (especially 185) on a PC with Premiere CS6/other way?

 

I want to send my movie to some film festival but they are asking for a ProRes 422 file and I don't have a mac ):

They don't allow DNxHD or any other format besides that.

Can you please help?? I dunno what to do ):

 

Thanks very much,
Gilian.

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 3:04 PM   in reply to WhatHaveIDone666

    ProRes codecs are read only (decode / play) on Windows.

     

    DNxHD are both read (decode / play) & write (encode) on Windows.

     

    Both can be used in Premiere Pro.

     

    If you really really need ProRes then perhaps you need to find a friend with a Mac, or build yourself a Hackintosh (not for the faint hearted).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 6:00 PM   in reply to WhatHaveIDone666

    Here is a program called 5dtorgb that I just found out about that does it for free. It works on windows and pretty well other than the fact you can only do one file at a time. At the very least does it does a good enough job to fool quicktime player. Because when I checked it using movie inspector it reads "ProRes".

    I also checked it using media info and media info also says it is indeed a legit ProRes file. O

     

    *Update to my original post after some testing it appears that the program can't properly create ProRes 422 files when the file is 1920x1080 however it can create ProRes LT 422 files that are 1920x1080 sucessfully it does however appear to have no issues with 1280x720 using either setting. However it appears to work perfectly fine when chosing ProRes 422 HQ with 1920x1080 video. When using the standard ProRes option with full 1080 video it uses some strange AJA codec instead of ProRes so I'd recommend selecting ProRes 422 HQ for your copy you plan to send them.

     

    So basically if you stick to using ProRes LT 422 or ProRes HQ 422 it appears to work great at creating ProRes files on PC. (According to my testing/verifying using "Media Info and Quicktime's built in movie inspector".


    http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/5DtoRGB-Download-211913.html

     

    Just select the softpedia US or UK secure download link and the download will start.

     

    What I would recommend doing is export the film/show you want from Premiere using a visually lossless codec like DNxHD or something uncompressed and then making it ProRes using this 5dtoRGB program. Since I literally just found out about this program I haven't checked too see what different codecs it works with. But since the page says it encodes to DNxHD I'm assuming it would accept it as  a source file.

     

    You could also try this hack. I haven't ever tried it but I'd be interested to hear if it works.  From what I have read this is (supposed to work for Premiere/AME) so if you want you can give it a shot. Although since 5DtoRGB does it for free and also doesn't require any extra steps I don't really see the point.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yppdAJfLFWI&feature=related

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 7:05 PM   in reply to ComputerNovice25

    On the PC it will only do this..

     

    5DtoRGB Features:

    • Updated for Mac OS X Lion 10.7 (5DtoRGB Batch)
    • Support for Canon EOS series HDSLRs
    • Support for Panasonic HDSLRs
    • Higher quality output than Canon's E1 plugin [compare]

    • DPX, ProRes and DNxHD output (DPX & ProRes Mac only, DNxHD Windows only)

    • Near perfect color compatibility with the Adobe CS5.5 Suite
    • Technicolor CineStyle LUT Support
    • Output at different frame rates (good for overcranking effects)
    • Command line / shell scripting support
    • Raw YCbCr output option for unprocessed luma channel extraction
    • OpenGL custom shader support
    • Timecode support

     

    Since you cant install the Prores codec on a PC for Encoding (yes you can play it back - Decoding) , it does not support that function. Your testing must be flawed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 9:25 PM   in reply to lasvideo

    *Update I figured out why it says that, that info is for the current version the version I downloaded is the beta version. I downloaded the current version 1.5 and it doesn't include the ProRes options however when you download version 1.5.6b2 preview like in my link and if you select the x64 option from their web page it does actually indeed include all ProRes options so it "appears to be legit" however as I express openly they might have just made it fool the media codec utilities somehow... Here are pics of the two seperate versions.

     

    Original version that doesn't support ProRes encoding

    version reading stuff applys too.png

    New Beta version that does support ProRes encoding on PC

    BETA version.png

     

     

     

    exampleagain.png

     

    Download the original version and try it. When you check it in media info and Quicktime it clearly says "ProRes" when you check it's info. But I guess they possibly made it just fool both these programs and also VLC. Apparently they where using FFMPEG's encoder in order to do it. Either that or like I said they made it fool every media checker and also use the exact same bitrate as legit prores files.

     

    http://ffmpeg.org/

     

    http://www.indiev.org/2012/batch-prores-encoding-in-windows-7-with-ffm peg-and-anothergui/

    Example again.png

     

    examplepro2.PNG

     

    examplepro3.PNG

    In may of this year apparently they somehow added the ability to encode to ProRes. However I have no way to prove this except to possibly put one of these ProRes files on a SSD and see if my BMD hyperdeck studio plays it or not. Since the BMD hyperdeck studio only plays either DNxHD or ProRes or uncompressed.

     

    But like I said they might have just made it fool media checking utilities including apples own Quicktime player, as well as made it say ProRes on the PC version. But since they say on their site it doesn't support PC it does make you wonder, and since the encoder isn't supposed to be avaible to PC it makes you wonder, but ffmpeg claims to be able to do it on their site and this program claims to use ffmpeg as it's encode engine on the bottom of their page.

     

    If anyone has any other ideas though on how we might be able to verify it works it would be much appeciated. Because I realize it's possible that they might have somehow made it cheat the media checkers somehow, because honestly anything is always possible.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 9:32 PM   in reply to ComputerNovice25

    Interesting. Dont let Apple know. They will sue the pants off them 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 9:38 PM   in reply to lasvideo

    Oh for sure I agree, Apple is sue crazy lol only crappy thing is that I wish I had some 100 percent way to verify that this is legit but I can't think of one except for my BMD idea... Sometimes I have personal clients that use Final Cut Pro and they sometimes want ProRes which I haven't ever been able to Provide unless i use my work's stuff which I don't like having to do for personal clients for obvious reasons. But the issue here is that I don't want to give them something I made using this and then find out it wasn't legit. I guess I'll just have to wait and see till after I do the BMD hyperdeck playback test or... just give it to a client and cross my fingers.

     

    Maybe the OP will try it out for his Film thing and he can tell us how it goes. All early indicators seem to say it works though.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 15, 2012 9:45 PM   in reply to ComputerNovice25

    I have used that legacy version to do exactly that for some time without issue in other facilties. eg Resolve Suites.

     

    I have mentioned here it a few times in the past.

     

    The OP should have no issues with it. Its the real deal..

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 16, 2012 7:43 AM   in reply to WhatHaveIDone666

    We also needed ProRes 422 for film festivals and worked out the steps for rendering to it from the Sony Vegas timeline on the PC. It should work for Adobe Premiere, too, but we haven't tested it.

    The process has many, many steps.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 16, 2012 9:36 AM   in reply to ComputerNovice25

    As a legitimate workaround, I wonder what amount of quality degradation would occur if one were to play a timeline (PrPro, etc) through an I/O card (Kona LHi, etc) as SDI-HD or HDMI, and record this to a BMD Hyperdeck as Pro Res HQ? Like playing out to a tape deck. The resulting file would be Mac/Pro Res 422. Would circumvent the need for Mac.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 16, 2012 11:29 AM   in reply to BGabriele

    I don't think you would lose any quality at all due to that dubbing method (other than the fact ProRes is only visually lossless not lossless).  If you used good quality HD-SDI cable or use HDMI.

     

    Although I wanted to mention I tested the ProRes files I made last night using the program I mentioned and they do indeed playback on my job's BMD hyperdeck studio. Which the Hyperdeck only plays DNxHD, ProRes or Uncompressed quicktime so obviously that program does indeed create legit ProRes files. However it seems to only accept h.264 based formats on input which means you would have to export using h.264 or some other lossy blu-ray output option then use 5DtoRGB to make that file into a ProRes file. Which means you'd lose a bit of quality because of having to use a lossy format encode it to make it work correctly with 5DtoRGB.

     

    So I honestly think using a BMD hyperdeck would probably be your best bet. Although I'd recommend trying to the 5DtoRGB first to avoid having to spend money. I'd just attempt using and if you see big quality loss then I'd go with the BMD option.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 16, 2012 12:49 PM   in reply to ComputerNovice25

    The concern I have with the hardware approach (outputting from PC and recording to BMD Hyperdeck Studio, etc) is the uncertainty of the quality of the rendered sequence output. There might be a difference in quality between "exporting" a file, as opposed to "rendering" the sequence and playing it out via SDI or HDMI. Perhaps first exporting the sequence to an intermediate file, and then playing the intermediate out would be be best, but would add more work and require more space.

     

    If there is no quality loss from the PC "playback / output" process, this would provide a "hardware" means to encode in ProRes 422 without a Mac.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 16, 2012 3:10 PM   in reply to BGabriele

    Actually there will be a difference and I forgot about that. Here is how you can avoid that though, you would simply need to make a seqeunce that uses a uncompressed format or lossless codec like Lagarith for your preview codec

     

    examplepro4.PNG.

     

    All you would need to do is make a custom sequence and set it to either a uncompressed codec or a lossless codec like Lagarith. Then you're ready to roll. You can make your own choice for a preview file by chosing the custom editing mode. I'd recommend Lagarith though here is a link where you can download the installer.

     

    http://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 17, 2012 5:50 AM   in reply to ComputerNovice25

    I'm sure you're right on this...I hadn't paid much attention to the "video previews" until I got the Kona LHi video i/o card. When I have remembered to check this section, I've use the cineform codec, which (as you probably know) is a great DI codec. I should spend some time and create some custom sequences. I'm mostly concerned about the quality of the video sent out to the LHi.

     

    I wonder if "video previews" are used for all sequence playback, or only generated when a "render" is necessary and is executed?

     
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