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ninefish
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why does spot CMYK paste as spot book colour? CS5

Aug 19, 2012 9:22 PM

open pre-existing doc with CMYK spot colour defined named as PANTONE 280 C

copy  element

paste into new document

 

 

Both existing doc and new doc have identical colour proof set-up

new doc has empty colour palette

 

When pasted into new doc, CMYK spot becomes Book Colour Spot

Same element with colour defined as a CMYK Process swatch is unchanged

Book Colour Swatch has colour shift (on-screen)

 

Once processed in ONYX rip this colour has huge shift in colour.

 

Any ideas as to how to fix this?

 

(so result is pasted as CMYK spot without transformation)

 

Adrian

1267 Views   16 Replies   Latest reply: jsmerdel, Apr 9, 2013 7:33 PM
 
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  • Monika Gause
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    1. Monika Gause,
    Aug 20, 2012 2:46 AM   in reply to ninefish
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    You should have a look at this: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1003852

     
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  • ninefish
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    2. ninefish,
    Aug 20, 2012 2:12 PM   in reply to Monika Gause
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    Thanks Monika, interesting thread, but not as relevant to my use of CS5 as I hoped (unless I missed your point)

     

    My issue is that (seemingly suddenly) as I paste between documents Illustrator CS5 changes a colour spec from Spot CMYK to Spot Book Colour.

     

    This affects output when ripped: ONYX uses the colour name and possibly the spec to then process through the ICC profile for our digital printers.

     

    Either way output is not as expected.

     

    Initial (original) file outputs as expected, second (pasted graphic now with different colour spec) prints differently.

     

    I'm just trying to figure where CS5 chooses to change the colour spec.

     
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  • emil emil
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    3. emil emil,
    Aug 20, 2012 9:59 PM   in reply to ninefish
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    ninefish wrote:

     

    ... Illustrator CS5 changes a colour spec from Spot CMYK to Spot Book Colour ...

    Are you saying that when you double click the swatch of the spot color in the Swatches panel in both documents, the Swatch Options dialog shows different Color Mode and or values of the spot color? Can you please show screen shots of the Swatch Options dialog of the spot color in the two documents?


     
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  • ninefish
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    4. ninefish,
    Aug 21, 2012 1:48 PM   in reply to emil emil
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    Screen shot 2012-08-22 at 8.39.01 AM.png

    original doc

    Pantone 280 C is spot CMYK

    $ 72 0 18

     

    Screen shot 2012-08-22 at 8.44.16 AM.png Screen shot 2012-08-22 at 8.44.30 AM.png

    Pasted element in new document

    Now a spot book colour with lab colour definition

     

    I don't mind the different colour space definitions, but the arbitary change to Book colour means our RIP software deals with the colour differently.

     

    I'd like to know why this is happening, to either make a change in our RIP or to change our workflow

     

    This is CS5 not CS6...

     
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  • Mike Gondek
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    5. Mike Gondek,
    Aug 21, 2012 1:58 PM   in reply to ninefish
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    Colors changing to book colors upon paste happens when you have an exisiting book color by the same EXACT name existing in the document swatches you paste into.

     

    Regardless if this is the case for you,  a solution that will work, and a good overall policy for you is whenever you make  book color into cmyk, change the name. I add "(cmyk)" to the end so your color would be "PANTONE 280 C (cmyk)".

     
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  • ninefish
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    6. ninefish,
    Aug 21, 2012 2:41 PM   in reply to Mike Gondek
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    OK.

     

    However, this is a new blank document, not a document with existing colour swatches

     

    Also, considering that this is a daily activity (copy from doc A to Doc B) I'd rather not also have to add the redefine colour step everytime, for every predefined spot colour.

     

    I'm not sure why this has started happening recently, my real goal is to find why, rather than create a work-around.

     
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  • emil emil
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    7. emil emil,
    Aug 21, 2012 6:48 PM   in reply to ninefish
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    From the menu in the Swatches panel, select Spot Color... and check what option is selected.

     
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  • ninefish
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    8. ninefish,
    Aug 21, 2012 8:03 PM   in reply to emil emil
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    Use CMYK :-(

     

    Checked that earlier…

     

    Same in destination templates, as well as host document

     
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  • emil emil
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    9. emil emil,
    Aug 22, 2012 6:47 AM   in reply to ninefish
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    I can only reproduce your problem if I change the Spot Color options to Lab. May be your preferences are corrupted. Restart with resetting the preferences.

     
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  • Mike Gondek
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    10. Mike Gondek,
    Aug 22, 2012 12:17 PM   in reply to emil emil
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    A book color that you change to spot cmyk, will change back to book, unless you change the cmyk breakdown. As menioned before if you ever change the cmylk breakdown you want to chaneg the name of he colro or else you will dig yourself into a hole.

     

    Do this to help understand what is happening.

    1. Make a new document, remove all colors (except registration)
    2. Add "PANTONE 280 C"
    3. Change color type to spot, & mode to cmyk. Nothing else. Click ok.
    4. Double click the color, notice what happens this goes back to book.
     
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  • emil emil
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    11. emil emil,
    Aug 22, 2012 2:05 PM   in reply to Mike Gondek
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    I thought that ninefish's problem as shown on the screenshot in post #4 is that the Pantone color defined as CMYK book turns into Lab book color after pasted in a new document. This is not normal. In CS5 the default is CMYK book color for every new document unless a custom document profile had been created and selected when choosing File>New. And ninefish said that the Spot Color options in the new document is CMYK book but if I understand it correctly after pasting the Pantone color becomes Lab defined. If that's the case I think there is something completely wrong with the way Illustrator behaves there.

     
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  • ninefish
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    12. ninefish,
    Aug 22, 2012 3:25 PM   in reply to Mike Gondek
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    Mike, tried that

    Deleted prefs

    new doc

    new swatch PANTONE 280 C

     

    open swatch colour again, still CMYK, click OK

     

    Nothing changes

     

    This might be the behaviour in CS6, which we're not running here.

     
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  • ninefish
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    13. ninefish,
    Aug 22, 2012 3:29 PM   in reply to emil emil
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    That's a good restatement of the issue yes.

     

    deleteing prefs didn't fix it.

     

    I might try a new account and see if it is some hangover from 'old' prefs and whatnot

     
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  • jsmerdel
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    14. jsmerdel,
    Apr 9, 2013 6:46 AM   in reply to ninefish
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    I'm having this issue as well.  Were you ever able to determine what the cause was? 

     
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  • ninefish
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    15. ninefish,
    Apr 9, 2013 6:15 PM   in reply to jsmerdel
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    Never able to determine why this happened no, just got used to checking that the colour spaces hadn't changed.

     
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  • jsmerdel
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    16. jsmerdel,
    Apr 9, 2013 7:33 PM   in reply to ninefish
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    I work in prepress and this is driving me crazy. Whenever I forget to check the spot colors of pasted/linked art, if its book color it's not not recognized at the rip unless I'm using a profile that has a color table enabled, and ends up just printing black. Problem is even when I'm checking a PDF I've made for print in acrobat it doesn't show the problem. Only preview in OS X and my rip have the problem.

     

    I've scoured the web in search of a solution and found nothing. I even picked the brain of a Agfa color specialist that came into the shop last week and he had no idea.

     

    So frustrating.

     
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