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davidozzz
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Help diagnosing colour management problem - windows 7, CS3, Eye-one display 2

Oct 10, 2012 7:25 AM

Hi,

I had my colour management all set up and working on my old laptop then I foolishly got a new laptop and am completely failing to get things straight.

 

The new laptop (Asus N56VM with Nvidia GT 630M) is running Windows 7.. I've calibrated the screen using my Pantone (X-Rite) eye-one display-two and straight away it looks much better to the eye. I calibrate to native white point which I always do with laptops.

I've used the following procedure to make Windows 7 load the profile at startup and removed the GretagMacbeth tool which attempts to do the same:

http://www.laszlopusztai.net/2009/08/23/stop-losing-display-calibratio n-with-windows-7/

 

Everything looks great except when I attempt to use anything with colour management.

 

Eg. All my old photos looked great  in Adobe Bridge until I activated Color Management via it's settings and suddenly they look awful - sky blues turn turquoise.

If I open an sRGB tagged file in photoshop it looks the same - awful (using Preserve Embedded Profile and with a working space of Adobe 1998 in Color Settings)

 

Only way I can get images to look normal in Photoshop is to open them then ASSIGN the monitor profile to the image (I know this makes no sense to do and is in no way a workaround)... and it looks great.

 

Something's not right somewhere but not sure where to start looking since there are so many variables. Can anyone suggest a route to investigate based on what I've said so far?  This is driving me nuts!

 
Replies 1 2 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 10, 2012 12:13 PM   in reply to davidozzz

    go download the WHACKED RGB PDI TEST IMAGE

     

    open it in Photoshop (use the embedded profile)

     

    set the lower left corner triangle bullet to show Document Profile as pictured

     

    docpro.png

     

    post a screenshot of the entire open Photoshop window displaying the PDI image showing the Doc profile (lower left)

     

    +++++++

     

    you either have a bad profiling package or you are not using the correct Source Profiles... my test will rule out the monitor profile and the source profile issues

     

    you may speed things up by posting a screen shot of your Edit> Color Settings window, too...

     

    you may also want to upload a small copy of one of your problem files, too...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 10, 2012 1:02 PM   in reply to davidozzz

    everything looks good (except your monitor profile, it looks way over saturated here)

     

    note (this is what you want):

     

    PDI Whacked RGB "matches" sRGB in Photoshop

     

    Color Setting all set to PRESERVE Profile

    Color Management Policies ALL THREE CHECKED

     

    +++++++

     

    can you go to Photoshop Edit>Color Settings and post a similar screenshot to verify which monitor profile Photoshop is using:

     

    Monitor_Profile.jpg

     

    if you are indeed using your custom monitor profile, one of the Windows folks will need to drop in to move you forward to rule out any Windows settings... other than that your profiling package looks suspect

     

    good luck

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Oct 10, 2012 5:10 PM   in reply to davidozzz

    Sounds like you've done all the right stuff. 

     

    I suppose it's possible the profile itself is coming out wonky.  If you want to post a copy of your display profile perhaps someone here could look inside it and see if it seems sound.

     

    Might your video driver be setting up a calibration of its own at startup, conflicting with the profile?  I'm not particularly familiar with the current nVidia drivers.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 10, 2012 7:25 PM   in reply to davidozzz

    yes, you appear to have Photoshop settings nailed down

     

    there could possibly be corrupted Photoshop preferences or

     

    PHOTOSHOP DISPLAY BUGS to rule out OpenGL, Scene-Referred, Version 4 monitor profiles...

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Oct 11, 2012 6:08 AM   in reply to davidozzz

    davidozzz wrote:

     

    Hmm, not entirely sure how to post a profile...

     

    If you don't have your own web server, you'd have to find a site to which to upload the file, then post a link here.  A profile is usually a fairly small file.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2012 10:41 AM   in reply to davidozzz

    Ok, I use the same tool and software to calibrate my monitor. I disagree with Lazlo p about resetting Color Management. What you should have is under Devices>Display, click "Use my settings for this device". (You will have to go to the place you checked Windows display calibration and uncheck it first.)

     

    When I first started using Win 7, I did not have either checked, (I didn't know about Windows Display Cal) and had fits. Then I checked "Use my settings..." and it ran fine.

     

    The reason the Gregg MacBeth Calibration Loader tool is needed has to do with their reluctance in updating the software completely to run in 64 bit. The Calibration Loader has always been a part of their software and for at least, XP, has run seamlessly. I now have the icon for Cal Loader in my tray, and after reboot, I'll click it to be sure the profile has loaded. Most of the time it has.

     

    I verified it with the support group who verified the need to use that tool in 64 bit. The workaround? An entirely new software package at a considerable sum!

     

    So I did what Lazlo suggested, and when I had completed the changes, I clicked the cal loader icon in the Tray.

     

    The display changed!

     

    I trust the Cal Loader.

     

    I do not grasp what MS implies in their discussion of WCS vs ICC, especially with respect that WCS is better.

     

    Finally, I am doubtful that you should be using native white point. It's not simply a choice available to laptops, but to all LCD screens (AFAIK!). There is a huge difference between 6500K and native white point on the Dell u2412,so much so I dismissed it out of hand and tweak the colors in RGB during calibration. Your laptop may not offer that path.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Oct 14, 2012 12:18 PM   in reply to davidozzz

    I took a look at your profile...  I don't have that much experience analyzing profiles made by user devices, but this one looks a bit odd to me, compared to others I've looked at.  Perhaps Chris Cox can comment as I know he has some more sophisticated profile analysis tools.

     

    Examples:  Look at where the red, green, and blue colorant tags fall:

     

    ScreenGrab_10_14_2012_151527.png

     

    ScreenGrab_10_14_2012_151537.png

     

    ScreenGrab_10_14_2012_151544.png

     

    I'm thinking this profile, for some reason, was created incorrectly or with essentially bogus information.  I don't know why that would be.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2012 1:02 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    How did you run those?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Oct 14, 2012 1:36 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    That's a handy little utility called the ''ICC Profile Inspector'', downloadable from the ICC here:

     

    http://www.color.org/profileinspector.xalter

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2012 1:52 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    That's not a realistic profile - it appears to be pretty bogus.

     

    Yeah, you need to replace that profile with a real one.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 17, 2012 1:04 PM   in reply to davidozzz

    in case this pops up via Google for anyone with the same problem

     

    yea, your monitor profile was the prime suspect from the beginning (your tests proved it)

     

    not sure if anyone mentioned this but one effective way of ruling out the monitor profile (on a standard gamut monitor, not a wide gamut monitor) is to TEMPORALLY set an unaltered sRGB profile (or possibly the OEM factory profile for the monitor) as the default system monitor profile

     

    (if you use Photoshop to accurately PROOF color [like me] it's important to get a good custom profile back in place asap so you are seeing true color, and not leave a sRGB profile in place as the default monitor space)

     

    if a sRGB default monitor profile clears the problem in Photoshop (using the correct Source Profile on a known good image) - there's your proof

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 17, 2012 2:55 PM   in reply to davidozzz
    Even though I've uninstalled Eye-one Match 3 (X-Rite's profiling software for those that don't know), Windows is still using the profile created by it

     

     

    that sounds confusing

     

    i don't think uninstalling the profiling software has much to do with changing the default monitor profile (?)

     

    Photoshop should be displaying through the system default monitor YOU set in Windows Control Panel> Color Management> Devices

     

    THERE: check "Use my settings for this device"

    and your custom default monitor profile should be listed there under Name "(default)"

     

    i may be missing something though as i am a Mac user...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 17, 2012 3:34 PM   in reply to gator soup

    I agree.

     

    Davidozzz, before spending money on a new calibrator, talk to X Rite about this problem. After all, they do sell the i1 as a basic device, and should have some suggestions to try.

     

    From what you describe here, I would not be surprised if, as you indicate, the mere presence of the calibration software is messing up the profile (which I do not doubt at this point) colormunki may do the same.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Oct 18, 2012 6:10 AM   in reply to davidozzz

    Click Start, then type color management into the search box.  When Color Management comes up click it.

     

    What do you see in the Devices tab?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 18, 2012 12:37 PM   in reply to davidozzz

    Well, it seems that perhaps the colorimiter may be defective. Your settings as Noel asked are correct.

     

    I disagree with the powered hub. I have had sme problems with running the device on a hub so I plug it into the main chassis fron panel.

     

    As a final check, go back to the default profile from Asus. It's likely an sRGB profile, or close to it. Set that as your default and look again. That should point to the defect...colorimeter or Asus! You might also actually set sRGB  for your test as well.

     

    I use the same HW/SW you did for cal, BTW.

     

    Good Luck!

     

    Lawrence

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Oct 18, 2012 1:06 PM   in reply to davidozzz

    davidozzz wrote:

     

    Seems fine... It says, Display 1:Generic PnPMonitor Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000

    And "Use My Settings for this Device" is checked.

    And below that my profile is marked as (default).

     

    As a test, try adding the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile to that list and making it the default.

     

    Outside of the monitor colors likely being more saturated than they should be, do you see consistent color?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 18, 2012 4:46 PM   in reply to davidozzz

    Nobody reads post #25!

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Oct 18, 2012 9:11 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Hudechrome wrote:

     

    Nobody reads post #25!

     

    I was just trying to be more explicit.  Being vague about exactly how to do color-management things being suggested often leads to more confusion.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 18, 2012 9:48 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    sRGB Color Space Profile.icm is probably more accurate as that is how it is stated as a profile, if you are going to look it up in System32>spool>drivers>color. sRGB IEC61966-2.1 is not listed there, at least on this computer. It is listed in Color Settings dialog box. So if I were being precise, I would have used sRGB Color Space Profile.icm, had I been asked for the location.

     

    Yes? No?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Oct 19, 2012 2:42 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    You select profiles by name in the dialog I referred to.

     

    SelectByName.jpg

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 20, 2012 2:35 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    For some reason I haven't been getting e-mail notification of responses until lat night.

     

    You may select it that way, but I don't have that profile in my list, Noel. I have the one I posted and it works.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 20, 2012 2:38 PM   in reply to davidozzz

    I'm glad for you it's solved.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 7:46 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Hudechrome,

     

     

    Hudechrome wrote:

     

    So I did what Lazlo suggested, and when I had completed the changes, I clicked the cal loader icon in the Tray.

     

    The display changed!

    I have i1Match 3 and have profiled my new Dell U3011, and have Cal Loader in my startup folder (I also removed Adobe Gamma Loader from the startup folder). However, I do not see a Cal Loader icon in the sys tray. How do you see it and how did you get it there? I'm on Win7 ultimate x64.

     

    Thanks,

    Griz

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 7:50 PM   in reply to GrizzlyAK

    Also, how can I tell which profile is loaded, since there seems to be some confusion around what Windows does and what 3-rd party loaders do, is there a way to check what's actually in place at any time? I have the "use my settings for this device" checked in Color Management CPL.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 9:04 PM   in reply to GrizzlyAK

    1) Calibration Loader:

    C>Program Files (x86)>GregMacbeth>i1>Eye-One Match 3>Calibration Loader>Calibration Loader.exe.

     

    Right Click and pick Send to Desk top. Find the icon and drag it to the tray. Now any time you are concerned whether it loaded, click the icon, which will be visible in the tray even in PS and see if the screen  color/tone changes. Either way, doing that will invoke or validate the proper profile is loaded.

     

    2) To check the actual Profile:

     

    Right click in the desktop screen, not on any icon. Select Screen Resolution>Advanced Settings>Color Management>Color Management. Click the devices Tab. Profiles associated with this device shows the profiles available and the default, which should be the profile done with the i1. If not, you didn't save it after running it. Do it again and be sure to save it.

     

    You also have to have the check box "Use My settings for this device" checked. Actually, you should check  this before you begin running a profile.

     

    I hope this explains it ok!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 10:10 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Hudechrome,

     

    Thanks for the quick response. In (1), I'm assuming by 'tray' you mean the task bar, typically on the left bottom next to the start menu in Win7, right, not the system tray on the bottom right where things like network, sound, and USB safe removal tool live. I can drag Cal to my task bar, but not my system tray, and didn't think you could do that anyway.

     

    At any rate, when I click it, nothing happens, and my custom profile is set as default. I'm a little confused still though, since in Lazlo's (excellent) blog post, he describes the ever-important step of enabling the "Use Windows display calibration" check box in System Defaults - Advanced tab in order to reliably load your default profile in Windows 7 (along with the "Use My settings for this device" check box, of course).

     

    As he states, Windows seems to unload custom profiles at various times, and third party programs like Cal Loader only run at logon, and so you'll lose your profile at those times until you run it manually (i.e., if you rely on the 3rd party app). Lazlo states that if you use the windows loader through this check box, then it will consistently be loaded, and reloaded whenever windows decides to unload it. Do you think this is correct?

     

    The reason I'm confused is because I haven't really seen that setting discussed elsewhere in CM posts, and this isn't explained sufficiently in Windows help. Can anyone confirm that this setting should be enabled, and the Cal Loader removed as redundant?

     

    You'd think the industry would have all this figured out by now! ;-)

     

    Thanks,

    Griz

     
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