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Images getting corrupted in Lightroom 4.2

Oct 13, 2012 1:28 PM

Tags: #lightroom #file #image #broken #64bit #corrupted #lightroom_4

I have experienced this aswell. As mentioned in:

 

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4138626

and http://forums.adobe.com/thread/948417?tstart=0

 

My lightroom has after two weeks of playing with a fully working raw file corrupted it.

 

This is what the photo looked like originally http://500px.com/photo/14737987

 

As of today, I tried to reexport it with a diffrent watermark, the raw file corrupted. It exports a corrupted jpg and when I delete the .xmp metadatafile and try to import it again (same happens with it now when trying to import it to photoshop) the raw file now renders as corrupted in all software.

 

broken.jpg

I have tried every possible way to reimport it, its just plain broken. If this should happen to my whole portfolio I would cry.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 13, 2012 2:34 PM   in reply to jinordnes

    I suspect a hardware or preview issue. The other threads you quote have no answers from the OP's what their problem ended up being - deafening silence after other options than Lightroom were mentioned.

    I suggest that you remove the file from Lightroom and if you have another copy, make a copy of the copy, rename it using the OS, place the copy in a test folder and import to Lightroom. What happens?

     
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    Oct 13, 2012 3:00 PM   in reply to jinordnes

    I'm in one of those threads, having had something similar happen to me in the past: my problem was unequivocally traced back to a failing hard drive, and every other such thread that has been followed up by someone suffering from this kind of corruption has confirmed hard drive, RAM or other hardware problems.

     

    It's well-known that Lr stresses the kit pretty hard, which is probably why this corruption manifests itself when Lr is in use.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2012 7:20 AM   in reply to jinordnes

    File was probably wonked when it got to Lightroom. Other softwares may have just displayed a jpeg preview. Lightroom "never" corrupts raw files - look for a hardware problem: card, reader, cable, ...

     

    I'm not saying it's impossible, just *very* unlikely - so far zero of many such cases (that I know of, and I know of a lot) have been traced to Lightroom.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2012 11:51 AM   in reply to jinordnes

    Check your memory with memtest86+ ( http://www.memtest.org ). I had corrupted raw files due to a memory error.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2012 6:22 PM   in reply to jinordnes

    jinordnes wrote:

     

    No the file was working perfectly well in Lightroom for about two weeks. When I was to reexport the file for like the 10th time, it corrupted, two weeks after import.

    That is unusual. Still, I concur with the others here - if not corrupt going in, it was probably a disk problem or something... - Lightroom doesn't write to the raw files, so it corrupting them seems highly unlikely. consider a thorough disk check. Note: the look of the corruption is "signature" - like a bit was stuck or something...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2012 7:03 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    I have also had this type of corruption twice in the past four years, which was caused by faulty ram.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2012 7:22 PM   in reply to DdeGannes

    I would guess faulty ram would be more likely to corrupt DNG than (proprietary) RAW files (i.e. w/sidecars), since DNG files *are* being constantly written, but perhaps when ram is failing, all bets are off...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2012 7:31 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    My experience was mainly a couple files with  corruption during import of a folder of files from a card reader. Copying the files to the hard drive then importing would solve the problem. I went through the process of switching, CF cards and card readers to try and get rid of the problem.

     

    Eventually checking the ram and changing the faulty modules stopped the random corruption.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2012 8:11 PM   in reply to DdeGannes

    Ah - right. So, corruption during import may be due to faulty ram, but after import, (like in OP's case), less likely due to ram failure, I would guess. I can't help but think it more likely the result of a failing disk in the OP's case - I could be wrong...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 15, 2012 5:08 AM   in reply to jinordnes

    I agree with Rob. You probably have a harddisk error which prevents you from reading the raw file.

     

    When you first have imported a raw file, Lightroom never writes anything to it again (unless you use Lightroom to move it). So Lightroom cannot suddenly corrupt that file.

     

    Today's drives actually keep a log of functional errors and are willing to share this information with you if you ask them in a standardized way. Sometimes the harddisk even tells you its own estimation of expected remaining lifetime based on the errors which have happened. The standard is called S.M.A.R.T (from the silly acronyms department, I assume). So you should try a harddisk analysis tool which can extract the S.M.A.R.T. information from the drive and see what it says.

     
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  • BernardDigital
    35 posts
    Apr 30, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 30, 2013 11:18 PM   in reply to jinordnes

    Yea this problem is still present and were using Lightroom 4.3 and Camera Raw 7.3

     

    Unfortunantly I don't think its a hardware issue as you would be having other graphics related issues... but to me it looks like a data basing error... If the images are fine on the disk then the problem is with the way the lightroom database is linking to the photo and loading the raw xmp look up value for that photo...

     

    Unfortunatly I think this problem will alway be present because of upgrade incompatiblity... ie... if you upgrade lightroom but not the camera raw plugin or the other way around... What would be a cool fix is a way to re-connect all your photos and essentially clean up your database after you upgrade... Our problem was fixed when we re-imported the photo... But that can be a tetius processes, so some way of batching it would be really cool

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 31, 2013 10:45 AM   in reply to BernardDigital

    What are you talking about, a “data basing error” related to an upgrade?  Image data is not stored in a LR catalog database, only the settings for an image and nothing in the settings would produce the artifacts seen in the first post, which appears to have resulted from corrupted or probably missing raw data on the hard-drive, perhaps due to a failing hard-drive or iffy USB connection if it’s external. 

     

    Sure, the previews can get corrupted and things can be fixed by removing the previews folder and having them rebuild, which your removing and re-importing would be an unnecessarily drastic version of.  Manually deleting the previews and doing a rebuild-all on them would be the batch way to fix them.

     
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  • BernardDigital
    35 posts
    Apr 30, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 13, 2013 1:46 AM   in reply to ssprengel

    Whoa! Chill out... I am talking about an error with the way Lightroom is linking to the file on the disk to load the image and then to load the look up values for that image... If you have a lightroom library that is fine then one day it goes bad the next but the file on the disk is good then yes its the previews that were corrupted... Which are connected to through the data base which is what probably corrupted them possibly when you updating your build or camera raw compatibility... Sure there are lots of ways data can be corrupted and people can be experiacing the same problem that are caused by different factors... Which is what seems to have happened here...

     

    My photo was fine on the disk and the disk is an internal drive but it was corrupted in lightroom and looks exactly like the picture shown above... So do you really think my problem is hardware related? And if it was hardware related do you think the only place you would be experiancing problem would be in lightroom? Im sorry to say I disagree. I think the problem is what I said ealier which is with the way lightroom is connecting to everything. So thank you for the advice of removing the preview folders and having them rebuilt. But what is the best way to do that?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 13, 2013 7:11 AM   in reply to BernardDigital

    I recommend checking your disk for errors.  Start > Run > CMD on XP or open CMD Window as an Administrator in Win7/8.  Then enter CHKDSK /F and reboot.  The drive will be checked for errors.  If you have any your drive is likely failing.

     
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  • BernardDigital
    35 posts
    Apr 30, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 13, 2013 11:21 PM   in reply to DigitalLayering

    Thank you... But I have checked the disk and its good... It was after I had upgraded the camera raw support that I started having problems... But with re-importing the images the problems are fixed and have not come back Thats why I think my problem was just some wierd glitch... I really should not have posted... I just thought it was interesting that two people were having the same problem caused by different factors...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 14, 2013 12:16 AM   in reply to BernardDigital

    Bernard feel free to post problems, sounds like it could have been a bad connection possibly?? I still haven't seen Lightroom corrupt an image as all the image data is just read not written to whether DNG, raw, jpeg, etc.............. Now if there is a problem reading files it is alo=most always a hardware issue!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 14, 2013 2:06 AM   in reply to BernardDigital

    xmp is kept at front of DNG & jpeg files. xmp block includes padding such that more xmp can be inserted without re-writing the file, until the pad's gone, then it re-writes the file in it's entirety with another pad, and the cycle repeats.

     

    Thus bad ram can cause corruption to image data when xmp is being written, in all file types except proprietary raw.

     

    PS - Having auto-write xmp enabled increases the odds of such corruption.

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 14, 2013 7:57 AM   in reply to Rob Cole

    And you have seen corruption from this Rob?

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    xmp is kept at front of DNG & jpeg files. xmp block includes padding such that more xmp can be inserted without re-writing the file, until the pad's gone, then it re-writes the file in it's entirety with another pad, and the cycle repeats.

     

    Thus bad ram can cause corruption to image data when xmp is being written, in all file types except proprietary raw.

     

    PS - Having auto-write xmp enabled increases the odds of such corruption.

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 5:01 PM   in reply to Geoff the kiwi

    The point is: the potential for corruption exists, whether you or I have ever seen it, or not, and whether or not it is the source of BernardDigital's (or anybody elses) present problem.

     

    I repeat: Lightroom can corrupt photos (including raw or rgb image data) when saving (xmp) metadata, if system ram is malfunctioning, unless file format is proprietary raw.

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 6:21 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob, you may like to anwers the question........... pigs can fly as well, anything is possible

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 7:21 PM   in reply to Geoff the kiwi

    Geoff the kiwi wrote:

     

    ...if there is a problem reading files it is alo=most always a hardware issue!

    I agree.

     

     

    Geoff the kiwi wrote:

     

    ...all the image data is just read not written to whether DNG, raw, jpeg, etc..............

    That statement is incorrect.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 6:48 PM   in reply to Geoff the kiwi

    If you are insinuating that whether I've personally experienced it or not makes any difference whatsoever, then I disagree.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 6:55 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob, I'm not insinuating anything I simply asked a question which you refuse to answer, simple!!

    Here it is again, have you seen any corruption from this? Easy yes or no!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 7:20 PM   in reply to Geoff the kiwi

    Geoff the kiwi wrote:

     

    Rob, I'm not insinuating anything I simply asked a question which you refuse to answer, simple!!

    Here it is again, have you seen any corruption from this? Easy yes or no!

     

    Of course Rob has never seen data corruption in Lightroom due to bad ram because while it may be theoretically possible, the chances of it happening are infinitesimal.

     

    Rob seems to like to spread FUD about Lightroom and image corruption and teases people with the possibility (no matter how remote) that Lightroom could in some near impossible situation corrupt image data…

     

    Fact is, he knows better…

     

    If you have image corruption it's 99.999999% hardware, somewhere, that is causing it–not Lightroom. To even suggest that somehow, Lightroom might be at fault is completely disingenuous. He knows better…and no, he has no proof or any experience that Lightroom could be at fault. Which is really the sad part of this…Lightroom doesn't corrupt images, hardware does.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 7:35 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Jeff,

     

    I don't appreciate you denegrating me - I stand by every thing I've said in this thread, without reservation.

     

    PS - If it weren't apparent that you didn't read my posts very carefully (since you've totally misrepresented what I said), I'd consider responding to the accusations. As it stands, I shan't waste my breath, or waste any more of other readers time.

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 7:46 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    PS - If it weren't apparent that you didn't read my posts very carefully (since you've totally misrepresented what I said), I'd consider responding to the accusations.

     

    Oh, I read every single word you've posted...make no mistake about that. We've been around this before. You do a disservice to other users by saying Lightroom could corrupt image data because you know that it doesn't.

     

    That's the problem I have with what you post. Again, it's 99.9999999% due to hardware. Could a mini black hole fly through your computer and corrupt you image in Lightroom while working on it. Yes, I suppose it's "possible". How likely? Not very. Could faulty ram corrupt an image in Lightroom? Perhaps...but I think the chances of that happening is as likely as your computer being hit by a black hole. If you have ANY evidence to dispute that, post it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 7:49 PM   in reply to janh1948

    janh1948 wrote:

     

    Check your memory with memtest86+ ( http://www.memtest.org ). I had corrupted raw files due to a memory error.

    That's what I use too, however it's worth noting that system bios has ram test built in (right: they are not as thorough as memtest86+). Such tests used to always be run at every boot, now they are optional, but definitely recommended if you are having inexplicable problems, especially if:

     

    * Known good images are going bad, when the only access you've had to them is through Lightroom, and disk-check did not indicate any disk errors.

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 7:50 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Jeff Schewe wrote:

     

    Oh, I read every single word you've posted...make no mistake about that.

    No you didn't, and you know it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 7:59 PM   in reply to jinordnes

    jinordnes wrote:

     

    No the file was working perfectly well in Lightroom for about two weeks. When I was to reexport the file for like the 10th time, it corrupted, two weeks after import.

    Please let us know whether you see this problem again after installing the new disk drive.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 8:26 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    No you didn't, and you know it.

     

    Yes...I did...you started out ok but when you said faulyt ram could corrupt .xmp data (and thus corrupt image data) you went off the reservation...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 16, 2013 2:49 AM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Deny much? (consider re-thinking what happens when Lightroom saves metadata in a non-proprietary raw (or rgb) file) - see my 5th post from the top if you are uncertain how it works.

     

    For the record - I never said Lr was (or Lr bugs were) responsible for corrupting raw files - what I said was that files can become corrupted under Lr's watch due to faulty hardware (e.g. bad ram), when embedded xmp is being saved, due to the fact that the entire file sometimes gets re-written, image data and all - if you think otherwise, then you think wrong. - far more likely than pigs flying and mini black holes swallowing your computer...

     

    You can't change the facts by denying them, or bad-mouthing me.

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 16, 2013 3:17 AM   in reply to DdeGannes

    DdeGannes wrote:

     

    I have also had this type of corruption twice in the past four years, which was caused by faulty ram.

    You are not the first person to report such, and you won't be the last. (not that it matters, but I have personally never had corrupt image files due to faulty ram. however I have had other files get corrupted before correcting ram problems).

     

    Re-writing image data when hardware is failing can and *sometimes* will cause files to become corrupt. It doesn't take a computer engineering degree to know that (although I happen to have one).

     

    I'm not about causing alarm, or trying to smear Adobe or Lightroom... - none of that. It's just how computers work, and people who are having problems with corrupt image files deserve to know about it.

     

    PS - This has nothing to do with Lightroom - it's true of all apps that read and write files. The difference is that Lightroom may exercise ram that is not being exercised (at least not for anything critical) when other apps are saving files... Thus, if the problem only occurs as a result of editing files in Lightroom, it does not necessarily mean it's Lightroom's fault (somewhat counter-intuitively).

     

    Cheers,
    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 16, 2013 1:29 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    ...what I said was that files can become corrupted under Lr's watch due to faulty hardware (e.g. bad ram), when embedded xmp is being saved, due to the fact that the entire file sometimes gets re-written, image data and all - if you think otherwise, then you think wrong.

     

    The entire file (including image data) get's rewitten? You think that? Then you don't understand the way .xmp is written to the headers of files. Those headers reserved for .xmp metadata have built in padding to allow for the expansion of new additional xmp data. It may be that if a header gets too full, the headers will be rewitten to expand the header padding. At no time (that I'm aware of) does that require rewritting the image data in the file. Can corrupt header data make the image inaccessable? Perhaps...I've never seen a case of that. Have you?

     

    Lightroom does load the entire image into Lightroom when working in the Develop module...but the only thing LR alters in Develop is the xmp settings, not the original image data.

     

    What I have seen is image corruption happening because of faulty cards, faulty writting to the card from a camera, faulty cabling when trnasfering the image to the HD or a faulty card reader. I've also seen image corruption caused by failing hard drives (files there were good becoming corrupted or unreadable due to loss of data ingetraty on the drive). I've seen images corrupted by faulty ram in Photoshop (but never in Lightroom).

     

    You'll note that  DdeGanes image corruption was being caused by faulty ram but the images were corrupted during an import (copy) process...not once the images were safely copied to the HD...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 16, 2013 3:54 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Jeff Schewe wrote:

     

    The entire file (including image data) get's rewitten? You think that? Then you don't understand the way .xmp is written to the headers of files.

    Well one of us certainly doesn't understand it.

     

     

    Jeff Schewe wrote:

     

    It may be that if a header gets too full, the headers will be rewitten to expand the header padding. At no time (that I'm aware of) does that require rewritting the image data in the file.

    Once the xmp pad is exhausted, the entire file is re-written (you can't insert more data in the front of a file without rewriting the part that comes after (which includes image data) - see "Computers 101"). I mean, if you write your own operating system, then you can - but we're talking about Windows & Mac, right? I'm making the assumption that Adobe did not write their own low-level IO functionality, thus bypassing the operating system. If they did, then I will eat crow, apologize, beg for forgiveness, ... (but I seriously doubt they did that).

     

     

    So, the file will never be re-written no matter how many changes are made to pre-existing adjustments, but when painting..., the file must be re-written periodically (with a new pad).

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 16, 2013 3:50 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    @Jeff and Rob. I would just like to make some further comments here. My experiences with faulty/flacky ram was some time ago and as far as I can recall, I experienced issues with corrupted raw files after import into Lightroom. The files would appear to import fine and then there would be a few files at random show corruption while attempting to do processing in the develop module. Sometimes I was able to delete the problem files and then re-import without problem and work with the reimported files without corruption issue. This would happen with a few files out of several hundred imported. A very random experience.

     

    Even checking the ram with software designed to detect problems with the ram did not identify problems and it is only with a tecnican's assistance we were able to isolate the problem. The ram modules on my system were in pairs. We removed one of the pairs and ran the computer and eventually inditified that the problems only occured when one of the ram modules was present.

    Installing new ram (both modules) rectified the problem. I had to go through this same process on two occasions.

     

    Just a note. I do not write to .xmp and I do not use dng, just work with raw files direct from my Olympus and Panasonic cameras.

     

    One other note, while I had problems related to Lightroom I also experienced some other problems with my system, shutting down unexpectedly. These problems also vanished when the ram was changed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 16, 2013 4:12 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Here's evidence that LR is rewriting an entire JPEG file when I add metadata and do Save Metadata To File, just as Rob has described.

     

    First, I imported a JPEG in which all the metadata had been stripped using Exiftool.  Exiftool's dump shows that the image data starts at around hex offset 10:

     

    c1.PNG

    Immediately after importing, I did Save Metadata To File, and the image data now starts at around hex offset 0cf0:

    c2.PNG

    Next I added a short caption and did Save Metadata To File, and the image data now starts at around hex offset 0dd0:

     

    c3.PNG

     

    I used the Microsoft Sysinternals' Process Monitor to trace file reads and writes to the JPEG file while LR was doing Save Metadata To File, and that confirms it is writing the entire 1 MB file:

     

    c4.PNG

     

    Obviously, if there's a hardware fault anywhere in the path from the disk to memory and back, the contents of the image data could get corrupted.

     

    And just as Rob has patiently explained, the fact that the file could get rewritten doesn't constitute any criticism of LR.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 16, 2013 4:42 PM   in reply to John R. Ellis

    "Obviously, if there's a hardware fault anywhere in the path from the disk to memory and back, the contents of the image data could get corrupted."

     

    I would agree.

    Conversly, If if there is image data corruption it is likely to be hardware problem related.

     
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