NOTE: The following could be an unwelcome side effect of installing the ATI 12.11 Beta 4 display driver, which I installed yesterday to try out with my Radeon HD 7850.
Consider this PNG image file - nothing special, sRGB color space, some well-saturated greenish colors...
It looks like this to me when opened into Photoshop CS6 with either Normal or Advanced GPU modes enabled:
Note that the saturated green lamp is completely blacked out.
It looks like this if the GPU Mode is set to Basic:
The data is actually there, and when I sample the colors I find that the Red channel is clipped (zero).
That is a clue. Sure enough, if I raise the black point of the red channel to 1 the problem is averted:
As it's a pretty obvious glitch I hadn't noticed until just now, this likely started occurring when I installed the new ATI driver yesterday morning, but I'm not sure. It may be some kind of overflow or underflow in the GPU color-management processing, which is moved to the CPU in Basic mode.
I'm doing more investigation, including ultimately cleaning up and dropping back to the ATI Catalyst 12.8 release, but given this behavior I think I'd advise staying away from the Catalyst 12.11 Beta 4 driver for now. Assuming this is a driver issue, 12.8 may still be the best in recent Catalyst releases.
I'll follow-up in this thread as I learn more.
Yeah, it seemed pretty good - I had zero Photoshop crashes with 12.11 Beta 4.
I've reverted back to 12.8. All the colors are now back as expected.
Sigh, I guess I've got to report this to ATI.
I also installed 12.11 Beta 4 display driver, and when Noel found the problem shown, he sent me that file and asked to test it, which I did but did not obtain his result. But since then, I have seen it with a different file.
I decided to dig into it and the following is my result.
The black overlay is an indication of clipping. As Noel showed, this is limited to the red channel. But in order for this to manifest, certain conditions must be met. They are:
1) Color Space in Photoshop must be set to sRGB
2) Drawing Mode in Preferences>Performance has to be set to either Normal or Advanced.
That's all there is to it. The clipping appears valid, that is in sRGB, the color is out of gamut. It would actually be a feature if all three color channel exhibited this effect, but it is only present on the red channel. If you open Hue/Sat and move the Sat slider maybe to -3 or -4, the clipping disappears. Alternately, setting Basic in Drawing mode or any other color space than sRGB, even setting ACR to open in Adobe RGB will negate the clip.
I elected to remain wth 12-11 b4 as the previous release actually slowed down the computer by a factor of two. I could go back to 12.8 but so far, no other bugs have shown so I'll stay with the beta, and reset Color Settings to Adobe RGB.
Incidentally, I don't see the clipping in ACR, only Photoshop.
Thanks for the follow-up Lawrence.
I mentioned above that I saw no Photoshop crashes with 12.11 beta 4. After I had written the above and was back on 12.8, I tried once again to upgrade to 12.11 beta 4 to test a few more things. and at that time I did see my first ever system crash when attempting some Photoshop 3D work with the 12.11 beta driver. So it's back to 12.8 again, until the next version of Catalyst is released.
I don't know if you do any 3D work, Lawrence, but be careful to save other work in other apps if you do try it.
Ok, ok. Threw down the gauntlet, did you? And at first, I didn't even notice.
Soooo...of course I had to try. Picked a photo of grapes, pasted it on a wine bottle rotated in all three planes until hell wouldn't have it any mo.......Ooops! (Nah! Pulling your chain!)
No crash, fun playing with it, however!
I'm set at Adobe RGB and Advanced Drawing Mode. Rotated as fast as I could move the mouse, rattled some cages grids etc.
I think I am beginning to find out just how capable this computer is.
Already reverted back to 12.8, but I did try Basic and also GPU off when I had 12.11b6 in and it was the same as before: The problem only occurs in Normal and Advanced modes when the red channel data reaches 0 (black point clipping). Only thing I forgot to test this time around was Camera Raw.
I'm a little disappointed in ATI, but maybe they just haven't had time to get to it yet. They might have their hands kind of full with bunches of users disappointed with the way Catalyst works in Windows 8.
P.S., I did try opening the same 3D file I had worked on before that crashed the driver and this time rotating the motorcycle model worked just fine - so maybe that's what they've been working on.
Catalyst 12.11 beta 8 - same problems:
Ram reporting...is that what you see in the system Info from PS? I'm seeing 1326 MB at the moment but earlier it was over 3G. So it appears to be dynamic which then in turn, means it's taking memory from RAM.
So far, other than the screens powering up (backlight is on) I'm ok with the beta.
Oh, and Open CL has turned itself off again, so that problem persists from earlier drivers.
It's the Edit - Preferences - 3D dialog's "Available VRAM for 3D" amount.
You can see that dialog on a non-Extended edition of Photoshop by going to Edit - Preferences - Type, then pressing Next.
I see that. It says 104%.
Ok, crazy making. I looked again at Info and it said "Open CL Unavailable", and it was right. Open CL is grayed out. But after closing then restarting Photoshop Open CL again is active but needs to be checked. If that's all the problems I'm having, I can live with it since I rarely use tools that need Open CL.
Video card memory use is back up to 3182M.
FYI, the latest 12.11 beta 11 software still shows these exact same problems.
One other thing wrong with the 12.10+ drivers (including the latest betas) is that the monitor power-down feature no longer works. The monitors shut off, but then more often than not in the next minute or so they come back on.
Lastly, though I didn't look too hard, I think the VRAM reporting may still be wrong in the later drivers.
I have reported all these things.
Adobe: You need to escalate your efforts with whatever friends you have at ATI/AMD, because they're clearly not scrambling to fix this.
Shouting again, I see!
Interesting you bring this up right now. I just checked over at ATI for updated drivers. I am running the beta and supposedly, no further updates, except that the current beta is a later date than the one I installed. But I let it be.
The power down feature is intermittent here. I did power down over night but earlier in the evening last, it didn't.
The whole software round robin reminds me of a Hydra transformend into an Ouroboros.
Shouting again, I see!
Someone decided to edit my post and reduce the font size. Like that makes some kind of meaningful difference. Whomever did it, that you found that to be an important use of your time says something. [ it just made things much easier to read, while not removing your emphais - ccox ]
Of course display driver writers are game-oriented! Gamers buy video cards! Photoshop users, on the other hand, don't have any money left because they've bought (or rented) Photoshop.
I have a suggestion, since Adobe seems to have serious problems with deciding when it's time to take unilateral action.
It's high time to do the following:
1. Outfit a system to reproduce the problem.
2. Restructure the Adobe GPU code that's involved to work around the problem.
3. Prepare a point release with the restructured code.
You have seen this coming. I have handed you the information on a silver platter here.
There are some issues in the drivers and shader implementations that we cannot work around.
This one is a shader and low level detail that can't be worked around without blacklisting the entire card/driver set, and we'd like not to resort to that.
AMD is aware of these issues, and is working on them. I wish I could tell you more, but the details are covered by NDA. But I see the AMD engineers at least twice a week in my office.
Thank you for the info, Chris.
I was hoping maybe this might prompt you into repairing another issue - the one where document data in the ProPhoto RGB color space is inaccurately rendered in Normal and Advanced modes (e.g., grayscale gradients show visible color bands). Please don't forget about that one.
At least for the issue I've reported in this thread we have Basic mode to fall back on (or we can just stay with older, slightly less imperfect drivers), though it seems to be to be a bad trend to have to use a fallback configuration on up-to-date hardware. I might be willing to use Basic, but I need the monitor power-down to work properly.
I used to emphatically recommend ATI video cards. Those winds are changing.
P.S., re my tone: Please understand that when I don't hear anything back I grow increasingly frustrated at the possibility that everyone just thinks these kinds of problems are okay to just let slide. It's comforting to hear that you are pressuring the AMD folks. Despite my note above, I believe at least some video card sales must be attributable to people wanting to run Photoshop rather than render blood spatter in unprecedented detail.
I've just found this thread, and I am now following it with interest. I too have 12.11 beta11 installed and am occasionally seeing bits of my images blacked-out, with GPU Acceleration enabled. It has the same appearance as the Gamut warning, but in reverse!
I have tried a few 12.11 betas too, and every time I end up going back to 12.8. This is a shame, because 12.11 does seem to be faster. What a pain. I hope the final release has this bug fixed.
I've reported the info to them, and I've posted it on their forum (and I had to smile - one of the other forum members asked "what does this have to do with gaming?").
You can work around the "blacking out" problem by using Basic GPU mode.
Do you also find that with Catalyst versions of 12.10 and newer the Windows power-managed screen saver no longer properly keeps your monitor powered-down?
I have noticed recently that my monitor was still on when it shouldn't have been, but hadn't thought anything of it. I've had problems of this nature in the past, so I tend to ignore them. So, I think I can probably confirm this, maybe ;-)
That tip about using Basic acceleration is very useful. Thanks. I tried Normal and Advanced, and gave up.
Same here, during the last days it happened that my monitor(s) were'n in standby-mode when they should have been. Does anyone here monitor ( ) the ATI/AMD fori if this issue is widespread?
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Does anyone here monitor ( ) the ATI/AMD fori if this issue is widespread?
The ATI/AMD forums are mostly populated with people wanting to play games. There are few mentions of Photoshop.
Yes, I browse over there from time to time, where I am considered a "peon". I've seen evidence that a few games show corruption of a type that might be similar to what's shown here, but since it's the GPU programming by Adobe that's going wrong, which we must assume is some kind of edge case that's not behaving as expected, it's hard to say how it might manifest in other programming.
Chances are good gamers shut their computers down when done playing, so the monitor power-down failure may not be seen by many, but again I have had confirmation from several folks that the failure is seen by others besides me. By the way, to be very specific, the monitors DO power down at the prescribed time. Then a little later they turn back on.
No new news, except I need to vent...
The 12.11 beta drivers have all suffered from this particular problem.
I have a feeling, since I reported it also to AMD and they didn't see fit to fix it in something like 7 different beta builds, that they don't feel it's THEIR problem.
I figure this will play out as follows:
Catalyst 13.1 (AMD's next driver release, the culmination of the work including the 12.11 betas) will come out shortly, and I believe it will have this same color problem when Photoshop CS6 uses it.
I'll report the problem again here, and a number of new reports will show up from people who have updated to Catalyst 13.1 as well .
The workaround will be (as with the 12.11 beta) to deconfigure Photoshop to Basic mode, or to drop back to Catalyst 12.8.
But somehow I suspect that EVEN THEN Adobe will not act to change the coding in their color engine to avoid the issue.
So those of us who use an ATI card will either be stuck on 12.8 (which I don't believe is perfect) or stuck with using deconfigured settings that yield poor performance. This will be a shame, since Adobe will have known about the issue since November 3, 2012.
I dearly hope I'm wrong.
No need to upgrade then, I assume.
My post #3 has my workaround, allowing you to use Advanced or Normal. Probably the drawback is that my monitor is limited to sRGB so setting the color space to AdobeRGB will result in some prints not matching the screen. OTOH, maybe that can be good! So far, I haven't seen it in the print.
Most colors in real images are not out of the sRGB gamut, so you might not notice.
You're running a 12.11 beta, right? The one thing that seems to be fixed in 13.1 vs. 12.11 is that the power-down screen save seems to be working again. I've only tried it a couple of times, though.
All my benchmarks show 13.1 to be just about the same speed as 12.8.
I have had a bad computer week, and decided to roll back from 12.11b11 to 12.8 yesterday. Now that 13.1 is available, and the blackout problem continues, I shall probably be staying where I am for the forseeable. I saw some online benchmarks of different Catalyst versions, and there's hardly any difference between recent versions--we're talking 1 or 2 percent. Most of the perceived difference is probably placebo.
That's probably the right decision, Yammer, for two reasons:
1. The issue I noted at the top of this thread, which hopefully Adobe will address soon.
2. I was wrong in post 33 about Catalyst 13.1 properly doing screen save power down. The monitors come back on after a few minutes all by themselves, just like with the 12.11 betas. It may be intermittent.
Thank you, PJayZzzzz. Having run that version myself, I can confirm Catalyst 13.2 beta 4 has solved this issue, as well as the "monitors power back on after screen save" problem.
Looks like it still reports wrong information about VRAM size to Photoshop, though, and there's evidence that Photoshop Extended's 3D lighting and shadow isn't being handled right (where that worked in 12.8).
At this point enough is working that I'm staying on 13.2b4 for now.