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Noel Carboni 23,469 posts
Dec 23, 2006
Currently Being Moderated

Uh Oh, Possible Problem with GPU-based Color Management

Nov 3, 2012 1:31 PM

NOTE:  The following could be an unwelcome side effect of installing the ATI 12.11 Beta 4 display driver, which I installed yesterday to try out with my Radeon HD 7850.

 

Consider this PNG image file - nothing special, sRGB color space, some well-saturated greenish colors...

 

GreenProblem.png

 

 

It looks like this to me when opened into Photoshop CS6 with either Normal or Advanced GPU modes enabled:

 

PhotoshopGreenProblem.jpg

 

 

Note that the saturated green lamp is completely blacked out.

 

It looks like this if the GPU Mode is set to Basic:

 

PhotoshopNoGreenProblem.jpg

 

 

The data is actually there, and when I sample the colors I find that the Red channel is clipped (zero). 

 

SamplingBlackOut.jpg

 

 

That is a clue.  Sure enough, if I raise the black point of the red channel to 1 the problem is averted:

 

RedChannel1.jpg

 

 

As it's a pretty obvious glitch I hadn't noticed until just now, this likely started occurring when I installed the new ATI driver yesterday morning, but I'm not sure.  It may be some kind of overflow or underflow in the GPU color-management processing, which is moved to the CPU in Basic mode.

 

I'm doing more investigation, including ultimately cleaning up and dropping back to the ATI Catalyst 12.8 release, but given this behavior I think I'd advise staying away from the Catalyst 12.11 Beta 4 driver for now.  Assuming this is a driver issue, 12.8 may still be the best in recent Catalyst releases.

 

I'll follow-up in this thread as I learn more.

 

-Noel

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 3, 2012 2:24 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Ho hum. Your 12.11 beta trial all seemed to be going so well too... I'm definetly sticking with 12.8 for the foreseeable future!!

     

    M

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 7, 2012 1:46 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I also installed 12.11 Beta 4 display driver, and when Noel found the problem shown, he sent me that file and asked to test it, which I did but did not obtain his result. But since then, I have seen it with a different file.

     

    I decided to dig into it and the following is my result.

     

    The black overlay is an indication of clipping. As Noel showed, this is limited to the red channel. But in order for this to manifest, certain conditions must be met. They are:

     

    1) Color Space in Photoshop must be set to sRGB

    2) Drawing Mode in Preferences>Performance has to be set to either Normal or Advanced.

     

    That's all there is to it. The clipping appears valid, that is in sRGB, the color is out of gamut. It would actually be a feature if all three color channel exhibited this effect, but it is only present on the red channel. If you open Hue/Sat and move the Sat slider maybe to -3 or -4, the clipping disappears. Alternately, setting Basic in Drawing mode or any other color space than sRGB, even setting ACR to open in Adobe RGB will negate the clip.

     

    I elected to remain wth 12-11 b4 as the previous release actually slowed down the computer by a factor of two. I could go back to 12.8 but so far, no other bugs have shown so I'll stay with the beta, and reset Color Settings to Adobe RGB.

     

    Incidentally, I don't see the clipping in ACR, only Photoshop.


    -Lawrence

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 7, 2012 6:39 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    No 3D as of yet. I haven't come near mastering what can be accomplished in 2D!

     
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    Nov 7, 2012 9:07 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Ok, ok. Threw down the gauntlet, did you? And at first, I didn't even notice.

     

    Soooo...of course I had to try. Picked a photo of grapes, pasted it on a wine bottle rotated in all three planes until hell wouldn't have it any mo.......Ooops! (Nah! Pulling your chain!)

     

    No crash, fun playing with it, however!

     

    I'm set at Adobe RGB and Advanced Drawing Mode. Rotated as fast as I could move the mouse, rattled some cages grids etc.

     

    No crash.

     

    I think I am beginning to find out just how capable this computer is.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 7, 2012 9:12 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Thinking this further, what I would ask ATi (or Adobe) to do is to give us the clipping info for all channels, not fix the red.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 8, 2012 6:59 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    If you are still running it, try changing the Drawing Mode to Basic and see what happens.

     

    I'm curious.

     

    Or, maybe wait until (if?) it crashes, then change to Basic.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2012 6:27 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Hi there, I'm having the same issues - and nothing new to add. Just wanted to stay in the loop. Thanks for sharing your observations.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 24, 2012 3:26 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Ram reporting...is that what you see in the system Info from PS? I'm seeing 1326 MB at the moment but earlier it was over 3G. So it appears to be dynamic which then in turn, means it's taking memory from RAM.

     

    So far, other than the screens powering up (backlight is on) I'm ok with the beta.

     

    Oh, and Open CL has turned itself off again, so that problem persists from earlier drivers.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 24, 2012 8:39 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I see that. It says 104%.

     

    Ok, crazy making. I looked again at Info and it said "Open CL Unavailable", and it was right. Open CL is grayed out. But after closing then restarting Photoshop Open CL again is active but needs to be checked. If that's all the problems I'm having, I can live with it since I rarely use tools that need Open CL.

     

    Video card memory use is back up to 3182M.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 8, 2012 1:04 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Shouting again, I see!

     

    Interesting you bring this up right now. I just checked over at ATI for updated drivers. I am running the beta and supposedly, no further updates, except that the current beta is a later date than the one I installed. But I let it be.

     

    The power down feature is intermittent here. I did power down over night but earlier in the evening last, it didn't.

     

    The whole software round robin reminds me of a Hydra transformend into an Ouroboros.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 8, 2012 1:04 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    They have been escalated.  But we're having some, um,  understanding issues with driver teams that seem very game oriented.

     
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    Dec 8, 2012 1:08 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    There's HYDRA!

     
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    Dec 8, 2012 1:56 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    On that platter sits Ouroboros!

     

    I saw the edit. At least we have two indicators in the space of a few minutes that took action on your comment Noel.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 8, 2012 2:33 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    There are some issues in the drivers and shader implementations that we cannot work around.

    This one is a shader and low level detail that can't be worked around without blacklisting the entire card/driver set, and we'd like not to resort to that.

     

    AMD is aware of these issues, and is working on them.  I wish I could tell you more, but the details are covered by NDA.  But I see the AMD engineers at least twice a week in my office.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 17, 2012 8:05 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I've just found this thread, and I am now following it with interest. I too have 12.11 beta11 installed and am occasionally seeing bits of my images blacked-out, with GPU Acceleration enabled. It has the same appearance as the Gamut warning, but in reverse!

     

    I have tried a few 12.11 betas too, and every time I end up going back to 12.8. This is a shame, because 12.11 does seem to be faster. What a pain. I hope the final release has this bug fixed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 17, 2012 10:36 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I have noticed recently that my monitor was still on when it shouldn't have been, but hadn't thought anything of it. I've had problems of this nature in the past, so I tend to ignore them. So, I think I can probably confirm this, maybe ;-)

     

    That tip about using Basic acceleration is very useful. Thanks. I tried Normal and Advanced, and gave up.

     
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    Dec 17, 2012 10:36 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Same here, during the last days it happened that my monitor(s) were'n in standby-mode when they should have been. Does anyone here monitor ( ) the ATI/AMD fori if this issue is widespread?

     

     

    Markus Mathieu

    theinteractiveArchitect

     

    Dollmannstraße 17

    81541 München

    fon: +49 89 41171122

    mobile: +49 171 5352852

     
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    Jan 17, 2013 10:32 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    No need to upgrade then, I assume.

     

    My post #3 has my workaround, allowing you to use Advanced or Normal. Probably the drawback is that my monitor is limited to sRGB so setting the color space to AdobeRGB will result in some prints not matching the screen. OTOH, maybe that can be good! So far, I haven't seen it in the print.

     
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    Jan 17, 2013 11:29 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I'll check it out.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 18, 2013 12:39 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I have had a bad computer week, and decided to roll back from 12.11b11 to 12.8 yesterday. Now that 13.1 is available, and the blackout problem continues, I shall probably be staying where I am for the forseeable. I saw some online benchmarks of different Catalyst versions, and there's hardly any difference between recent versions--we're talking 1 or 2 percent. Most of the perceived difference is probably placebo.

     
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    Feb 5, 2013 12:12 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    It has been fixed in Catalyst 13.2 beta

     
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    Feb 5, 2013 1:47 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Yes, the ZeroCore problem has been fixed too like 12.10

     

    Right, it reports 2666MB for me while my GPU has only 1GB VRAM

     
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