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question about working with smart objects and composite images

Nov 16, 2012 6:24 AM

Tags: #composite #smart_objects #psb

so I'm working on a pretty complex image with alot of composites - models on a new backgrounds, new heads, arms, etc. I had to scale these elements down to fit the image and I used smart object b/c i had to go back and forth and get placement approval before moving on to the retouching. I still have to adjust the mask edges in the smart object PSB's but it is really annoying to go back and forth from the composite image to the PSB with layer mask. Is there a way to rasterize the PSB into the final image with the layer mask so I can better blend it? I tried dragging the PSB with layer mask over but of course it is too big (because i scaled the PSB down). thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 6:47 AM   in reply to eclic

    1. In the main doc, target the SO and press Cmd/Ctrl-T to enter Free Transform and note the W and H scale percentages. Cancel FT.

    2. Double-click the SO's thumbnail in Layers panel to open its content in a new doc window. Use Image > Image Size to scale that doc by the percentages noted in step 1.

    3. Drag (or duplicate) the layer with mask from the scaled doc to the main doc.

    4. Close the scaled doc (without saving if you want to maintain it at full size inside the SO for future use).

     

    You'll be back in the main doc with scaled layer and mask, and can hide or delete the SO.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Nov 16, 2012 8:12 AM   in reply to eclic

    eclic wrote:

     

    so I'm working on a pretty complex image with alot of composites - models on a new backgrounds, new heads, arms, etc.

    I may be off base here but to me it seem more like you making composites of composites.   You may better of working like that any way where some of the smart object layer are placed PSD file which itself is a composite. Embedded smart object can be reopened and work on in Photoshop so then Layers can be scaled using Image size an and the embedded composite can be tweaked. Being the embedded object is a copy of the original PSD composite its independent from the original. This also allows you to have layer mask over layer mask for an embedded smart object can have layers with layer mask and the smart object layer itself can have a layer mask which as of CS5 can be linked with the smart object layer.   To me the only thing different between Collages and Composites is masking.  I tried to show this in my Photo Collage Toolkit.  Where I automatically populated some preset PSD collage templates with images some of these images were PSD files.  One the Collages were built I user Photoshop to played around with the Collages layer mask and embedded smart object and even did a way with or reperpoused layer mask or two.  Showing differen version of the populated PSD file.

    http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/Collage1Interactive.jpg

    http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/Collage1v2.jpg

    http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/Collage1v3.jpg

    http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/Collage1v4.jpg

    http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/Collage2v1.jpg

    http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/Collage2v2.jpg

    http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/Collage2v3.jpg

    http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/Collage2v4.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 8:15 AM   in reply to eclic

    You can drag or duplicate the layer with mask from inside the SO, at whatever size it is, to the main doc then use Free Transform in the main doc to scale the layer with mask. Notice that FT in CS6 has resampling options at the right of the Options bar when a pixel layer is targeted. In earlier versions, the resampling method in Preferences is used.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 8:26 AM   in reply to eclic

    I meant that you can use FT in the main doc to scale without having knowledge of previous scaling factors. The edges of the layer being scaled will snap to the edges of the SO.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 8:41 AM   in reply to eclic

    You only mentioned scaling before. Do you mean Edit > Transform > Warp has been used on a SO? As far as I know, Photoshop doesn't store Warp parameters. You'd need to warp the masked layer to match the SO visually, I think.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Nov 16, 2012 8:46 AM   in reply to eclic

    eclic wrote:

     

    but for these layers i cannot find the transform info like i could in my first layer. am i missing something? or since these SO were transformed many times - i cannot recover the changes?

    Every Smart Object Layer has an associated transform when the smart object layer is first created the transform is normally 100% but not always if the smart object layer is the result of a "Place" command.  

     

    It does not matter how many time you transform a smart object layer. Its as though the is only a single transform for all transform start from the pixels Photoshop rendered for the smart object. 

     

    If you reopen the smart object and resize the embedded object using Image>size the smart objects pixels will be updated when you commit the changes made.  The only way to control the interpolation used for smart object is to change you Photoshop interpolation preference.

     

    CS6 free transform only has the interpolation option for raster layers.  I do not know if when smart filters are re-rendered on smart object layers if Photoshop starts with the smart object pixels or the transformed pixels.  I hope its from the transformed pixels so I set Photoshop's interpolation preference before I transform a smart object layer and hope the interpolation sticks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 9:18 AM   in reply to eclic

    Do you mean the SO layer in the main doc has an attached mask, or the SO contains layer(s) with mask(s)?

     
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  • JJMack
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    Nov 16, 2012 9:28 AM   in reply to conroy

    conroy wrote:

     

    You only mentioned scaling before. Do you mean Edit > Transform > Warp has been used on a SO? As far as I know, Photoshop doesn't store Warp parameters. You'd need to warp the masked layer to match the SO visually, I think.

    Yes and No while Photoshop records the Transform Warp settings for the smart object it does not record a Transform Warp setting used on a layer mask added to a smart on. A layer mask is and addition to a smart object layer not part of the embedded smart object. The embedded smart object itself can have layers and layer mask.

     

    If you target a smart object layer that has a layer mask and do an edit>Transform>Warp you will see the transform is to the smart object not the layer mask. If you target the layer mask then edit>Transform>Warp you will see the transform is to the mask. If you do both and then redo the one on the object you will start from your old warp setting.  I you target the layer mask you will start a new warp.

     

    You can not Edit>Transform>Warp ig Layer mask is linked to smart object....

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 9:25 AM   in reply to eclic

    I think you should post screenshots of main doc and opened SO, both with Layers panel visible, (and, optionally, a link to a file download) at this stage.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 9:35 AM   in reply to JJMack

    Hi JJ

    Ah yes, of course, you're right, the Warp parameters of an SO do have to be stored with the SO because we can replace the content of a SO and the warp will still be applied. Do you know whether a script can access these parameters and apply them to another target?

     
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  • JJMack
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    Nov 16, 2012 9:46 AM   in reply to eclic

    This is a pefect example as to what I ment by composites of conposites.  If the Girl is placed PSD with a replaced eye, nose head or a cutout. You would need no layer mask she would be on any background she is over. If the girl is a placed png you could reopen the embedded pgn and work on it. While it may seem more complicated it make thing easer.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Nov 16, 2012 11:09 AM   in reply to conroy

    Conroy I'm retired and never learned javascript I just hack at it. Even object programming isn't in my bag of tricks. Adobe DOM is far from complete Photoshop Script often need to resort the using action manager code.  You could ask the question over in the scripting forum.  My guess is the most likely is not possible.  Support is limited in the DOM interface to basically to a layer resize by some percentage or size. No actual transform support. That would fall to action manager code from the scriptlisener plugin.  You may be able to come up with some transform functions using that type of code.  I do not know if current setting could be retrieved.

     

    However the smart object can be replaced with an other. So you could use Layer>Smart Objects>New Smart Object via Copy to create a independent smart object layer the replace the object and the transforms will be applied to then replaced the embedded object. That is why is is important to replace smart object with other object that have the sane size as the original smart object.

     

    Message was edited by: JJMack

     
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  • JJMack
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    Nov 16, 2012 10:13 AM   in reply to eclic

    eclic wrote:

     

    any thoughts on transforming just a portion of this SO with LM?

    What is in the embedded smart object.  All smar object are not created equal. When you double click on the layers smart object icon in the layers palette what opens in Photoshop or ACR???  If by LM you mean layer mask they do not transform they just mask.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Nov 16, 2012 11:01 AM   in reply to eclic

    eclic wrote:

     

    in the SO there is a pixel layer and a layer mask (LM) showing 2 models. they are being put on a different background. I want to enlarge the head of one alittle but if I do that the mask will not transform with it. is there a way to do that?

    I asked about the smart object the above description does cot seem consistent. with a pixel layer.  It reads more like its several layers or we are not on the same wave length. Can you post the PSD|PSB file.  If the smart object contains many layers and layer mask you can make change the these layers. When you commit the changes using save the original embedded object will be updated with the changes you made.  Look at the images I posted the one wit the boys in the plane. That smart object embedded object is a PSD file with many layers any mask all have the visibility off but the background layer.  The smart object layer mask is jus user to constrain the layer visibility over a portion of the canvas. In fact the layer mask is not linked to the smart object. So I can transform and position the layer and position it only in the portion of layer over the canvas in the area of the layer mas will show. Creating the different versions of the composite. I linked the mask and the object so I could freely mover it over the canvas.  In fact the Layer mask and object had different aspect ratios the layer mask virtually cropped the object to its aspect ratio. In the last version I could even do away with the smart object layer mask for I reopened the smart object turned off the visibility of its background layer and turned one the visibility of other layers in the psd.  The result is a cut plane the smart object layer mask was no longer needed all the was needed was a little rotation.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 11:20 AM   in reply to eclic

    Your problem may have been solved by now if you had provided the requested screenshots instead of the image you did supply.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 12:33 PM   in reply to eclic

    Maybe this is all you need:

     

    Select the head.

     

    Screen shot 2012-11-16 at 20.29.23.png

     

     

    press Cmd+J to make a new layer with just the head.

     

    Screen shot 2012-11-16 at 20.29.37.png

     

     

    Scale the head.

     

    Screen shot 2012-11-16 at 20.29.53.png

     
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