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turner111
turner111
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How to automatically start chapter on verso?

Nov 19, 2012 12:53 PM

Hi all,

 

I'm finding it puzzling to figure this one out...

 

I have a book document, and the first chapter ends on recto.

 

The next chapter begins, automatically, on recto as well... I need to to start on verso.

 

Odd thing is, one chapter in the book is behaving... but I can't figure out why.

 

What setting controls this?

 

thanks,

Andrew

1244 Views   21 Replies   Latest reply: Peter Spier, Nov 20, 2012 6:30 AM
 
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  • [Ariel]
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    1. [Ariel],
    Nov 19, 2012 1:22 PM   in reply to turner111
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    You're looking for the "keep options" -- altctrlj by default. You want

    to "start paragraph on odd page".

     

    Ariel

     
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  • [Ariel]
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    2. [Ariel],
    Nov 19, 2012 1:22 PM   in reply to turner111
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    Oh, actually, you don't want it on an odd page.

     

    So select the first paragraph of the chapter, and set it to "start

    paragraph on next page"

     

    Ariel

     
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  • turner111
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    3. turner111,
    Nov 19, 2012 1:31 PM   in reply to [Ariel]
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    Hi Arïel -

     

    Well, first, I can't get the option to show up.

     

    Anyway, though, the first page (the one I want on recto) only contains images.

     

    There should be a way that this happens without overriding anything...

     

    cheers

    Andrew

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    4. Peter Spier,
    Nov 19, 2012 1:38 PM   in reply to turner111
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    Are the images anchored in the text, or floating free?

     
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  • turner111
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    5. turner111,
    Nov 19, 2012 1:41 PM   in reply to Peter Spier
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    Hi Peter -

     

    They're not anchored.

     

    But for the sake of clarity - let's suppose it's a page with nothing on it. Should it matter?

     

    thanks,

    Andrew

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    6. Peter Spier,
    Nov 19, 2012 1:47 PM   in reply to turner111
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    If they're not anchored inthe text, how do the get into the document? Seems like you ought to be able to place them whrever you want them...

     

    I'm, obviously, a little confused.

     
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  • [Ariel]
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    7. [Ariel],
    Nov 19, 2012 1:56 PM   in reply to turner111
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    To get the option to show up, you have to select some text, or have your

    cursor in some text. It's a text option, not a page option.

     

    If the first page of the chapter is all graphics, and if they are not

    anchored objects, there is no simply way you can force that page to

    always be a recto that I know of.

     

    You'll need to manually add a page before.

     

    There may be a way to play around with the pages in the pages palette

    (don't allow pages to shuffle, or something like that) -- but I think it

    would be more trouble that it's worth.

     

    Ariel

     
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  • turner111
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    8. turner111,
    Nov 19, 2012 3:18 PM   in reply to [Ariel]
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    Peter - I've simply placed the graphics on an empty page.

     

    Arïel, I can try anchoring the graphics but am really not sure why there would need to be content to simply tell a chapter - really, just a page - to start based on the last page of the previous chapter.

     

    Just to be clear:

     

    The previous (first) chapter ends on recto. The one in question (and several more thereafter) should simply start according to whatever happens before it, regardless of where the previous chapter ends.

     

    I just can't imagine it's difficult to actually do this!

     

    thanks,

    Andrew

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    9. Peter Spier,
    Nov 19, 2012 3:28 PM   in reply to turner111
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    But you are saying the chapter start is not a page of text. That's the problem.

     
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  • turner111
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    10. turner111,
    Nov 19, 2012 3:34 PM   in reply to Peter Spier
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    Well, for what it's worth, there is text, but it's set on the master pages.

     

    That said - does this mean if the book was entirely blank, it wouldn't work, but as soon as I added even a single letter to the first page, it would flow properly?

     

    thanks again-

    Andrew

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    11. Peter Spier,
    Nov 19, 2012 3:47 PM   in reply to turner111
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    Is the text for each chapter a separate story of do you have one continuous flow?

     
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  • turner111
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    12. turner111,
    Nov 19, 2012 4:01 PM   in reply to Peter Spier
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    Well... Just tried this with a new document, and  text  on a page has no bearing on page flow; I created two completely empty chapters to test this. I deleted a page from the first chapter, and the first page of the second chapter re-flowed properly.

     

    So... must be another answer!

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    13. Peter Spier,
    Nov 19, 2012 4:19 PM   in reply to turner111
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    You aren't really answering the questions, so it's hard to figure out what your document structure is.

     

    If you've used styles, and the first paragragh in the first page of your chapter has a Keep Option as part of the style, or one has been applied as local formatting, and that keep option specifies a page to start on, then that is going to control what page that paragraph will occupy.

     

    Perhaps you could show us some screen shots of this chapter changeover.

     
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  • turner111
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    14. turner111,
    Nov 19, 2012 4:29 PM   in reply to Peter Spier
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    Sorry - I really don't think the content has anything to do with it. I create all kinds of documents; in this case, there are MANY unconnected text and graphic elements on any given page.

     

    Not at the same computer now, but you can follow my steps:

     

    1) Create a new document (facing pages) and drag a master spread down. You now have three pages. Save as "chapter 1".

    2) Create a new document (facing pages) and drag a master spread down. You now have three pages. Save as "chapter 2".

    3) Create a new book, and add the two documents you've just created. Note that chapter 2 of the book begins on the left hand side, as it should.

    4) Delete one page from Chapter 1. Note that the first page of chapter 2 moves to the right hand side.

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    15. Peter Spier,
    Nov 19, 2012 4:39 PM   in reply to turner111
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    OK.

     

    You're using a Book to combine files. That's important information that wasn't included before. Page flow in a book is controlled by the numbering options you choose for both the Book and the individual files, and whether you need to update the page numbering.

     

    ID presumes that odd numbered pages are rectos and evens are versos in left-to-right languages. If you've set things up to continue from previous number in the docs and the book numbering options, and the various files are open, the numbering should update and the pages will swap sides if you change the page counts by a single page (this can, by the way, cause a lot of trouble if you have master objects that you override).

     
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  • turner111
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    16. turner111,
    Nov 19, 2012 6:34 PM   in reply to Peter Spier
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    Hi Peter,

     

    From my first post:

     

    "I have a book document, and the first chapter ends on recto."

     

    And... we're back to the start - what you're saying about how having things set up so that chapter pagination should continue from the previous document/chapter/page numbering in a book file simply isn't happening, which I why I started the thread.

     

    BTW - I'm using "reflective objects" which is a great plugin.

     

    thanks,

    Andrew

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    17. Peter Spier,
    Nov 19, 2012 7:11 PM   in reply to turner111
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    When you say book dodument most of us see document and presume you are creating a book in one file, a common technique.

     

    Have you synchronized the numbering?

     

    When you go to Book Page Numbering Options from the Book panel flyout menu does the dialog look like this?

    Book Page Numbering Options.png

     

    When you check the Numbering and Section Options from the Pages panel flyout menu withe first page of your second (and subsequent) chapter(s) does the dialog look like this (your page numbers and chapter number will be different, but it must be set to automatic)?

    Book Numbering Doc Section Options.png

     

    A failure of your pages to flow properly indicates a problem in one of these areas.

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    18. Peter Spier,
    Nov 20, 2012 5:08 AM   in reply to turner111
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    I thought of one other possibility this morning for why a page doesn't change sides, and that would be if you've disabled shuffling for the spread or the document.

     
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  • turner111
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    19. turner111,
    Nov 20, 2012 5:40 AM   in reply to Peter Spier
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    Thanks Peter!

     

    I'm going to open up my docs now and take a look at these points, though I do believe I have my chapters set up correctly. Back to you soon.

     

    Andrew

     
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  • turner111
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    20. turner111,
    Nov 20, 2012 5:51 AM   in reply to turner111
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    Well this is embarrassing... but sometimes we (I) forget the basics.

     

    Wasn't working, everything was set up correctly.

     

    Decided to shut down/restart.

     

    Fixed.

     

    Arghhh.....

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    21. Peter Spier,
    Nov 20, 2012 6:30 AM   in reply to turner111
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    Happens to all of us...

     
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