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Importance of embedding ICC profiles

Nov 20, 2012 2:19 AM

I have created a package of logos in different versions. 30 versions in all. However each logo weights around 1.2 mb. It contains nothing but a few vectors and colors, no blends no images.

If I save as unchecking "Embed ICC profile" the weights falls to around 188 k

 

Is it a bad idea unchecking the ICC profile?

I suppose it has no effect If I export pdf’s using the "Convert to destination (Preseve Numbers)" setting? - As long as it only contains vectors?

 

BR

Nina Storm

 
Replies
  • Rob Day
    3,127 posts
    Oct 16, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 20, 2012 5:21 AM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    How important is color appearance to you? If you don't include profiles it will be impossible to color manage the color appearance on different devices.

     

    A simple example would be if you are spec'ing CMYK colors and your document CMYK profile is US SWOP and you send the file to me without a profile, the color will shift if my application's CMYK working space is something other than US SWOP. So if I place your PDF logo in my document that has US Sheetfed assigned the logo colors will likely appear darker because US Sheetfed allows for more dot gain than US SWOP.

     

    There are some cases where you can argue for not including a profile—say you value saturation over  appearance. You might want a logo with 100% cyan, or 50% yellow objects to never be converted—you simply want to print the brightest cyan possible whether it's on newsprint or gloss coat. In that case not including profiles make output conversions less likely, but it doesn't stop someone from forcing one down stream.

     
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    Nov 20, 2012 5:21 AM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    Nor is there a reason to include a profile if the logo is spot colors.

     

    I've taken to not embedding profiles in most logo work, but if it uses process colors I do include the colorspace as part of the file name and make new versions if required for other spaces. It has proved to be less of a problem this way than having the profiles embedded for things like solid black and one spot logos that were created in SWOP and convert to a four-color black and spot when they wind up in a sheet-fed profiled document.

     

    It helps, of course, that I control the entire process. When things go to other designers it gets trickier.

     
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    Nov 20, 2012 6:43 AM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    If you want the numbers preserved, even at the expense of a color shift on output, don't embed the profiles. If the logos use mixed process colors and will generate 4 plates anyway, then I would leave the profiles embedded in hopes the other user gets the management right and the appearance of the color is maintained.

     
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  • Rob Day
    3,127 posts
    Oct 16, 2007
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    Nov 20, 2012 6:57 AM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    Thank you (though I am still in doubt what to do).

     

    Why is file size a problem 30mb doesn't seem excessive even if you are delivering via the web.

     

    You might consider PDF/X-1a, which includes a Output Intent profile but not a profile. A PDF/X-1a file acts like a PDF without an embedded profile—if you place or print it the CMYK numbers remain unchanged—but if you open it in AcrobatPro it previews by default with the  output intent profile and lets someone downstream know what you expect the appearance to be. It does not solve your file size problem.

     
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    Nov 20, 2012 8:07 AM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    I use YouSendIt for transfering files too large for email. I have a paid account which gives me a dropbox others can use to send stuff to me and a few other bells and whistles, but they have free basic service, too, which allows transfer of a single file at a time up to 50 mb, which is probably sufficient if you compress your ID packages before sending.

     
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    Nov 20, 2012 8:34 AM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    And for a couple companies I beta test for, we use a simple service, wikisend. Main thing about that service is it is dead simple for the users involved. But there isn't the inbox/outbox structure of either dropbox or yousendit. Then again, someone sending files to you don't need an account, etc.

     

    Take care, Mike

     
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  • Rob Day
    3,127 posts
    Oct 16, 2007
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    Nov 26, 2012 1:09 PM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    I think you can argue that eps is a dying format. Why not .pdf?

     
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    Nov 26, 2012 1:43 PM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    I get asked for jpeg and eps by one client, too. He still uses Pagemaker...

     

    Usually for logos you can convince the cleint that jpeg is jut not an appropriate format. If they can't use .png, perhaps a .gif?

     
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    Nov 26, 2012 2:11 PM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    I just did a quick test in PM7 (no longer have an earlier version running), and I was able to import both .ai and PDF, though neither came in with a transparent background and I don't see a way to fix that.

     
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    Nov 26, 2012 2:15 PM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    PM6.5:

    .EPS

    .CDR files from CorelDraw versions 3.0-5.0

    AutoCad DXF files

    .GEM files

    HPGL files (such as those saved from CorelDraw or AutoCad)

    Macintosh PICT graphics

    Lotus PIC graphics

    WordPerfect Graphics versions 1 and 2

     

    Might have been one or two more. I don't know about PM7 as I never upgraded to it.

     

    Sometimes all it takes is a little education for the client(s) to accept we might know about file types. Sometimes their requests are valid for where they are located. I get asked for EPS files all the time when it is an Indian client and that is what their service bureau people require.

     

    In most any other country, PDFs are the flavor of file to send. It can be a touchy thing, the education of a client. And I usually know before I begin what/how they are going to use a file so there is time to walk them through the how to use what they ought to use.

     

    In the case of offices where Word is King, PNG is about the only thing they can reliably use--but then I am also usually the person making their style sheets so it isn't a big deal.

     

    Take care, Mike

     
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  • Rob Day
    3,127 posts
    Oct 16, 2007
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:08 PM   in reply to Nina_Storm

    Am I right that saving an Illustrator file as .eps makes it impossible to embed a color profile?

     

    Yes, you can't save an Illustrator eps with a profile so when it is placed it will be assigned the ID doc's profile.

     
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