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Lightroom4 prints are too light

Nov 22, 2012 9:10 AM

Tags: #printing #lr4

I have documented the lighter print output from LR 4 a while back and have been waiting for someone at Adobe to notice and offer some solution to this problem. I use a robust printing workflow and have done the experiments under very carefully controlled conditions. The same photograph printed from PS CS5, PS CS6, LR3 all look the same and the print from LR4 is a good deal lighter, probably 1.5-2 stops in exposure terms. This is a problem that seems specific to LR4 and has persisted over several updates. Could someone from Adobe address this question please.

 

Cemal Ekin

 

Posts documenting printing problems:

http://www.keptlight.com/2012/03/lightroom-4-printing-issues/

http://www.keptlight.com/2012/03/lr4-print-issues-part-2/

 
Replies 1 2 3 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2012 9:42 AM   in reply to keptlight

    I have never observed that Lr prints too light, and I have never heard it either on this forum. Although I've heard complaints that it prints too dark when the monitor brightness is set too high.

    You say you have a 'robust printing workflow", and I assume that includes a calibrated monitor.

     

    Are your Print Adjustments set to 0? See screen shot:

     

    PrintAdj.JPG

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2012 10:07 AM   in reply to keptlight

    Yes, I did.

    But before I would say that Lr is causing this i would carefully check the whole setup of my color management.

    I remember several times when experienced photographers, Photoshop users, and Lr users complained about the printing out of Lr on this forum. In all cases there was a profile mismatch in the workflow setting that was responsible.

    Please check carefully your setup from the selected profile in Lr to the settings of yourprinter in the printer dialog.

     

    And, to repeat myself, my Lr 4.2 does not print too light.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2012 10:18 AM   in reply to keptlight

    Please understand that the forum members are not Adobe - although occasionally Adobe staff writes posts, too. They are clearly designated as "staff".

    The members are Lr users just like you and - except for staff - have no affiliation with Adobe.

     

    That nobody answered your earlier post is probably due to the fact that the problem you are reporting is highly unusual.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2012 10:46 AM   in reply to keptlight

    i'm sorry I can't help you with this; maybe Adobe can.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2012 11:09 AM   in reply to keptlight

    I notice that in the Lr profile you have your paper specified by icc-profile (which is correct) but in the printer dialog it says <Premium Luster Photo Paper (260)>.

    I am not familiar with your printer but does your printer not allow you to specify the paper by icc-profile? I have a HP printer but it lets me add any paper I have an icc-profile for to the list of papers.

    Also, your paper is "Satin" whereas the printer dialog says "Premium Luster". I have made prints with the Epson Premium Luster paper on my HP printer - but the Epson Premium Luster correlates to the HP Glossy Paper, not to the HP Satin Paper.

     

    What I cannot see is your printer <Custom Settings>.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2012 4:58 PM   in reply to keptlight

    I assume that the settings in your printer driver are identical for printing from CS6 and from Lr ?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2012 5:28 PM   in reply to keptlight

    I just did a test:

    I printed a TIFF that has alos some Lr adjustments from Lr 4.3 RC and then opened this image in CS5 (copy with Lr Adjystments) and printed it from CS5.

    Same print settings in Lr 4.3 RC and in CS5. the TIFF has proPhoto RGB embedded. My working color space in CS5 is proPhoto RGB.

     

    My two prints are absolutely identical in color and in tonality.

     

    Since I do not doubt what you are seeing and reporting, I conclude at this point that either Lr does not talk to your printer correctly or your printer does not listen correctly (or both) - question is only which one is from Mars and which one from Venus.

     

    I would suggest to ask Epson if they can reproduce the results that you are seeing.

    Simultaneously you could get in contact with MadManChan. You can find his e-mail on his website: http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/photos/profiles.html

    MadManChan is the software engineer for the Lr color engine.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2012 5:36 PM   in reply to keptlight

    You are welcome!

    See also this webpage of MadManChan: http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2012 8:08 PM   in reply to keptlight

    Lighter and +magenta/red implies double color management (darker green implies no color management). Somehow, both LR and your driver are both applying color management. I suspect a driver issue...or the inability to clear out the the driver settings as stored by LR. I would suggest trashing your LR preferences and reinstalling the most recent driver.

     

    One thing you've not mentioned is wether or not you are trying to print from a LR Preset...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2012 5:08 AM   in reply to keptlight

    There should be no need to manually delete folders under App Data. The App Data Camera Raw folders are shared by Photoshop's ACR application and should not be deleted. A LR uninstall removes everything except the Preferences file, Catalog files, Preview files, and Camera Raw cache files, so you will need to manually delete the LR4 Preferences file before doing the LR4 reinstall.

     

    http://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/preference-file-locations-lightroo m-4.html

     

    It's also a good idea to update the printer driver and create a new monitor profile with your hardware display calibrator to eliminate these as a source of your problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2012 9:07 AM   in reply to keptlight

    Going back to your screen shots of yesterday - the Lr print settings and the printer settings - there is one thing that I don't see: is color management by your printer disabled in both cases, i.e. when printing from CS6 and when printing from Lr?

    I know, it's a very basic thing, and you know all about this - but have you checked recently?

     

    You said "what I choose on the printer dialog box is independent of the softare pushing the print" - yes and that's where my question comes in:

    Could there be a different setting for enabling / disabling color management by the printer for CS6 and for Lr.

    As you know, Photoshop can save the printer settings - so could there be different settings for CS6 and Lr?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2012 9:33 AM   in reply to web-weaver

    I just did this test:

    Opened an image in CS5, went to <Print>. In the printer settings I selected <Application managed>. This is my printer's wording for disabling color management by the printer. Clicked <Done>, and saved the image in CS5.

     

    Same image in the print Module of Lr: in Color Management I did not change the profile (one of my HP papers) - but in the printer settings I selected <ColorSmart RGB/sRGB> instead of <Application managed>. This results in color management by Lr and by the printer and with different color settings (proPhoto RGB vs. sRGB). I started the print.

     

    I re-opened this image in CS5, checked the printer settings - and lo-and-behold - it still said <Application managed>. Re-checked the printer settings via Lr - it says <ColorSmart RGB/sRGB.

    Result: if you don't check and reset manually you can have color management by CS5 only and color management by Lr and by the printer for the same image.

     

    So the assumption "what I choose on the printer dialog box is independent of the softare pushing the print" is not true for color management.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2012 10:44 AM   in reply to keptlight

    OK.

    In this situation I would run a test with a TIFF or PSD that has either no adjustmenst in Lr at all, or if it has I'd open it in CS6 as a <Copy with Lr Adjustments>.

    This test would eliminate a cause in the conversion from Raw to pixels.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2012 11:35 AM   in reply to keptlight

    Your latest test that confirmed that printing from Lr  with colors managed by printer produces correct colors and Jeff Schewe's earlier comment that "Lighter and +magenta/red implies double color management" both point in the same direction: double color management.

    It seems that somehow your printer doesn't accept "color management off" when printing from Lr.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2012 1:51 PM   in reply to keptlight

    I cannot comment on this since I am not familiar with your printer.

     

    But I think  "double color management" has not yet been ruled out .

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2012 2:04 PM   in reply to web-weaver

    Another thought - still in the vein of "double color management":

    Can you reset your printer? I can reset mine by switching the power off (i.e. inplugging it from the outlet / power bar), waiting at least 30 seconds and switching the power back on. My printer then goes through a set-up routine.

    If the "double color management" is "stuck" in the printer, maybe it could be reset that way (?).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2012 2:28 PM   in reply to keptlight

    Forgive me for saying this: It seems to me you are too fixated upon the idea that Lr4 is the cause of this.

    Just think: Lr 4 prints with so many different printers perfectly, and also with Epson printers.

    I don't know of anybody on this forum who has this problem.

    What are the chances that Lr4 is causing this for the Epson 4880?

     

    Why would Lr4 act differently on the Epson 4880 than on -for instance - the Epson 2880?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2012 2:42 PM   in reply to web-weaver

    I am providing a link will gives some basic info about printing with proper color management and may assist in sorting out the original posters problems. While one of the programs involved is not Lightroom the concepts employed to create properly color managed prints are the same. Hope this helps.

     

    http://ddisoftware.com/tech/articles/may-2011-printing-the-same-colors -in-qimage-ultimate-and-photoshop/

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2012 3:17 PM   in reply to keptlight

    Just to let you know I've searched the Web and other forums and found no post with your specific LR4 issue with any Epson printer, at least none that weren't correctable using proper settings.

     

    I also downloaded the Epson 4880 user manual and see on pages 53-55 mention of 'Advanced Controls' under 'Custom Settings.' I know it's a long-shot, but did you check these advanced settings in ALL of the tested applications – LR4, LR3 and PS CS5/6? Is there anything set differently here in LR4? You may also want to consider testing with LR4.3 RC.

     

    Epson 4880 Advanced.jpg

     
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