If I load .MTS media files from my Panasonic GH2 camera onto the timeline of Premiere Pro CS6 (Win7 on PC) on some footage I get a wierd noise/artifact appearing in the footage on playback and also if i render the timeline out.
The artifacts look like a 'rain' of digital noise appearing in certain dark areas of the footage (issue doesn't happen on well lit scenes)
If I use Media Player Classic to play back the .MTS footage outside of PP CS6 the footage plays back 100% ok.
If I transcode the .MTS files into DNxHD format using Adobe Media Encoder the problem persists.
However ....if I transcode the .MTS files into DNxHD format using a 3rd party transcoder (5DtoRGB) the problem is resolved and the DNxHD files work 100% ok in PP CS6
It is as though both PP CS6 and also Adobe Encoder are not interpretting the .MTS file structure ok (?) and introducing artifacts.
It seems that some dev work is needed to resolve the handling of .MTS files by Adobe (?)
Can anyone please assist?
I've just done another test.
I shot 10 secs of indoor footage in a dimly lit room.
If I play back the raw .MTS file in Premiere Pro CS6 I can see the digital rain/snow/lightening (pick your own description) on playback.
If I take the same .MTS and use FFMBC to transcode to DNxHD 175M the resulting file now plays back on the PP CS6 timeline 100% ok.
a) The GH2 is not producing a 'correct' .MTS file and as such PP CS6 can't be expected to work with it.
b) PP CS6 does not work fully ok with .MTS files
what is puzzling is why this only happens on underexposed, dim parts of GH2 footage and not on well-lit footage??
I have uploaded a 23.976fps .MTS file straight from the camera, without any processing applied, to vimeo at http://vimeo.com/54606592
It's not great footage, but I chose it as it shows the problem up quite well as a typical dark/underexposed shot where the problem typically rears it's ugly head.
Please note that you cannot see these noise artifacts when playing back the video in Vimeo. The vimeo transcode and playback process does not exhibit the same issues as playback within Premiere pro CS6. You must download and playback the .MTS clip in PP CS6 to see the problem.
If you download the original media .MTS media file from vimeo and load into a sequence within Premiere Pro CS6 you will see on playback some digital artifacts that look like snow/rain/banding that occur at approx 13 -14 secs onwards into the video. Look at the lower left part of the screen (the floor in the left hand footwell of the car) and you will see the 'snow/rain/banding' artifacts flickering on playback in PP CS6
These snow/rain/banding noise artifacts only seem to happen on dark/underexposed areas of GH2 footage and only if played back within Premiere Pro CS6 or VLC player. If I play back using Windows media player classic then the problem appears to not exist.
If I transcode the .MTS media files from the GH2 into DNxHD .MOV files then the media is played back in Premiere Pro 100% ok and the rain/snow/banding noise is not shown. Therefore the problem appears to be Premiere Pro CS6's handling of GH2 .MTS files.
My GH2 is hacked, but I have read reports where this noise is appearing on standard unhacked footage (GH2 hacked with flowmotion v2.02) ie. I don't believe the hack is anything to do with this issue.
I do not see much of the 'rain' in the VLC player.
But the 'rain' is visable in Pro and AE. Also very visible in QT. Its not just visible in the underxposed area but its all over the picture
There is also a faint green vertical line on the left side of the image.
I use the GH2 with PP CS6 and the digital rain is a real, consistent problem. It is not in the source file, it occurs in rendering of shadow areas. The problem has a workaround, which is to resample the footage to another codec, such as Cineform. I'm assuming the problem is in the mainconcept decoder. There is only a slight loss in quality from using an intermediate codec, but it is a bug of some sort.
Well, then the people who have the problem can still fix it using the workaround, and the people who don't have the problem don't need to use the workaound. It would be nice if there is no need to resample the source file, nothing is perfect. I think most people who have the proble--and this is more than a few people--just decided to convert to an intermediate codec; I use Cineform, but I see several people are using 5D2RGB and prores to solve the problem. I'm happy to upload some particularly vivid examples, I don't use Vimeo because they resample the source files. However, I'm resigned to resampling, I don't have hours and hours to go over each clip to see if they have noise added.
Well, then the people who have the problem can still fix it using the workaround
You shouldn't have to, though. I'm saying something may be wrong with your camera if it's recording those artifacts, because in several hundred hours worth of shots using stock firmware and half a dozen patches, I have never had it.
Well, you could say that there are a number of cameras that have a problem--like a large batch with an identical design flaw--but you would not be able to repair it because it only shows up in videos with a combination of high bitrate and short GOP. You would never be able to cover that under warranty. The camera company would simply say it is PP CS6 fault, and no one could blame them for saying so since every other NLE can handle it with no problems. After all, it doesn't show up in playback.
The fact that the artifacts do show up outside of PP is pretty strong evidence that it isn't PP CS6 fault, though. The fact that clips which do have the problem show it in PP for me, but my own clips do not is also pretty strong evidence that there is something wrong with those clips.
Now why the artifacts show up in some software but not others is a valid question to ask. For those with the problem, it might be worth finding an answer.
Hi guys. Just wanting to pitch in here as I found this post and I am having exaclty the same problems. Here is my post today on Creative Cow. It appears to be a problem with the Mainconcept filers used by PP which needs to be fixed. I got thhat information from this post and my post follows:
http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/5120/please-help-problem-wit h-my-gh2-footage/p2 post near the bottom by "willyfan".
Here is my experience.
The problem is rain like artifacts on GH2 MTS files when viewed and exported from PP CS6 (I haven't tried but apparently cs5.5 was the same). I have taken some clips and you can view them with the links at the bottom of this post. The rain like effect builds up over 1 second then disappears then builds again cyclically every 1 second. Guessing this is GOP related??
If you view the original material in VLC the first second shows the effect then it disappears and you just have the normal background noise but no obvious cycling rain. I have tried both stock 1.1 GH2 firmware and with higher bit rate set via ptools but the effect is the same even with stock firmware.
Import into PP and you can see it on source and program monitor, it does not show if you set the monitors to half res. However the export does show the effect.
If I transcode the MTS via FFMBC to prores the prores files plays fine from the vert start, shows fine in PP when imported and exports fine too.
So this relates to some sort of comparability issue between PP (and AE I am told) and the GH2 MTS files.
If anyone else has come across this can you tell me how you resolved it. Obviously I can pre convert to prores prior to import the PP but that negates the huge advantage of native support on the PP timeline and wastes a lot of time.
Files below of 2 sec clip if you want to have a look but any ideas guys?
Original GH2 MTS 1280/50F under exposed to show effect
Exported MP4 from PP CS6.0.3
Original MTS converted to ProRes via FFMPEG, imported to PP then exported.
It appears to be a problem with the Mainconcept filers used by PP
That's unlikely, as my own GH2 clips have never shows these artifacts. Further, neither VLC nor QuickTime require the MainConcept filter to play the clips, yet those programs do also show the artifacts. I've also recently learned that at least one user is seeing these artifacts using Sony Vegas.
I'm telling you guys, all the evidence points to the problem being in the clips.
The clips play fine in VLC but not PP so if, as you say, Mainconcept is not used in VLC that would point all the more to it being a compatabilty issue with PP and the MTS's.
I have 2 different GH2's bought at different times from differnet suppliers but both exhibit the identical problems. Whilst I can understand there could be problems with the clip, ffmpeg seems to have no such trouble giving me a perfect prores transcode so the filters in PP are an issue in this situation.
I took the trouble to upload two files which show the difference, and after viewing those files, if anyone still does not think this is an issue, then that of course is the nature of subjective observation.
What we do know, is that the problem goes away if you render the video using 5.5, or use an intermediary codec. I find the idea that if the camera is at fault, the fact that 5.5 knows this, but version 6 does not, an intriguing idea, but I can't see how it would work. Since there is a simple workaround, like many things, it is better to work around it.
The clips play fine in VLC
They don't. At least, the clips I've checked do show the artifacts in VLC as well. And Ann has seen them in the QuickTime player. And Sony Vegas shows them as well.
ffmpeg seems to have no such trouble giving me a perfect prores transcode
It is curious why some software will show the artifacts and not others. It's a thread worth pulling. But the totality of evidence so far still points to the problem being with the actual clip.
it is better to work around it.
I'd not be happy with that, myself. I'd want to find out exactly why they appear and get it fixed. 'Cause like I said, in 8 months of using my GH2, in a few hundred hours worth of footage, I've never once seen those artifacts.
If you downloaded my files, and they look the same in VLC, then that would be an unusual piece of the puzzle, but no one else has made that observation. It is also unusual that CS5.5 works fine, and CS6 doesn't. I'm not disagreeing with you, everyone has different systems, monitors, etc. My examples were made in a very large room with large areas of shadows, which highlight the "rain" or whatever. Outdoors, you don't see it. I don't want to speak for Ann, but she looked at my clips and echoed back rain in one, not the other. That's what I get and a bunch of people who work in my area. If you get the same rain in both of my clips, then I can't explain that.
I appreciate it that she took the time to look at my clips, and I appreciate everyone's opinion here, of course.
I bought CS6 for Speedgrade and hopefully a better AVCHD experience. I have no sour grapes. I found Speedgrade unusable, but I love the new three-way color corrector in V6. So, great upgrade for me. My AVCHD experience needs a workaround for some clips. I do my pullldown in AE, it works perfect. I do my pulldown in Premiere, not as good. So, no problem. I use AE for pulldown, it looks great.
I would prefer it if everything worked perfect, but this is a great product. I only posted this because I spent hours trying to fix this problem, and I wanted to save some people some grief. If you don't get this unusual digital rain, that is way cool. And if it is the camera that is at fault, or the program, you can just use Premiere 5.5, which also has the advantage that it handles the file spanning.
If you downloaded my files, and they look the same in VLC
Ann did, as reported in post 20.
she looked at my clips and echoed back rain in one, not the other.
She saw them in the original, but not the converted. That's not unexpected. It follows the idea that some software shows the artifacts (PP, VLC, QuickTime and Vegas), but not others (my preferred KM Player does not show it). That seems very odd to me. But I don't know enough about how the software works to explain it.
I just tried my clips in CS5 and the fault is not there, just normal low level noise. So CS5 does handle the files ok and CS6 does not. What ever the reason CS6 is less capable in this particular aspect than earlier versions.
Understanding where errors are creaping in is mine field these days but I think this is worth investigating by Adobe. As DrDave says, in a lot of shots you wont see the fault, however it stood out like "dogs bits" on a shoot done last week with a speaker in front of a mid coloured painted wall, ie, pretty much constant area of low saturation colour. The test I did today and posted as above is of our office wall under exposed on purpose the show the fault and it is really really obvious and really unusable.
So having spent the day investigating and following the paths of other people I have a work around which is reassuring however there is a problem which has been introduced in CS6 and I think it is worth looking into the downgrade in performance in this area. Hey don't get me wrong,I love Premiere CS6, beats the pants of everything else out there but it has its bugs like everything and the speed attraction of native support of MTS files is lost and I am back to pre rendering. Can we help Adobe investigate and find if not a solution then a reason??
PS DR Dave I jsut checked your clip encoded via CS6, and I can some of the effect but please guys have a look at the clips I did, they are only a few seconds long but the problem is as clear as night and day, you really can't miss it.
There are two files that I posted, one is rendered using Cineform, one is rendered by dropping the AVCHD file on the timeline. The one that Premiere CS 6 rendered has the noise, the one that used the intermediary codec and then was rendered does not have the noise. There is no noise in the original, that is, the original is identical to the Cineform.
Most people who look at the two files will see a difference. If it is important to you, as it seems to be, just take a moment to look at the two files.
there is a problem which has been introduced in CS6
Again, given that the issue shows up in several other programs, it is almost certainly with the clips themselves. Which points to a camera malfunction. More so that not all GH2 will exhibit the artifacts.
Its the programs and the way they handle the mts codec on decode. Hacked GH2 footage goes beyond Profile High Level 4 in bitrate. Adobe and other programmes decoder is unble to read the hi bitrate data correctly - probably decoding it to the confines of the lower elements of profile. Adobe, VLC and the likes should look into it.
WMP users should dowload K-lite encoder pack which has a better decoder than Adobe's.
Adobe and other programmes decoder is unble to read the hi bitrate data correctly
Not sure that explains it. The artifacts have shown up for folks even when using the stock 1.1 firmware. And they don't show up for every camera.
I still believe the issue is in the clips themselves. Or at least, a combination of clip and software.
so you are saying you downloaded my original MTS clip, played it in VLC and you saw the rain effet throughout the clip? I see a short bit at the front then it disappears. If we are seeing different things wit the same clip and VLC then that confuses things. What ever I render out of PP CS6 I see the effect in every player. Pre-render via Prores does not. I am running CS6 Windows 7 64bit.
Nick thanks for the comments but apart from setting PAL/NTSC and disable record lenth limitation in ptools 1.1 I am running stock bit rate. The effet happened with stock bit rate and set to average 25mbs.