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`~`* Multi-Cam = DSLR sending me to LOONEY BIN!!

Nov 27, 2012 3:37 PM

Tags: #audio #sequence #dslr #nested #disappears #multicam #waveform

First off, my system properties...

quad core, 16GB RAM, GTX550Ti graphics card

Premiere CS5.5


I'm editing multi-cam....

Two camera's with diff properties -

Cam #1) 29.97fps + 1.33 PAR + 1440X1080

Cam #2) 23.97 fps + 1.0 PAR + 1920X1080 = (DSLR)

The main problem I'm having has to do with the DSLR - cam #2...seems to be making premiere go a little haywire.

The two big issues =

A) When opening project, sometimes DSLR footage shows up in the project panel....sometimes it doesn't. It just says media pending. A couple times it's said "media offline".

I have to quit premiere and start it back up and usually it pops back up...sometimes further opening/closing is required.

Initially when I imported the files into the various projects (about 13 total proj's for the series I'm producing)....the DSLR footage did not import. It just froze premiere and had to open/close...try until it worked. Some proj's the footage imported right away. Same project settings.

B) Currently, I'm rendering the video's and about 12 diff times so far, the exports either don't start when I start queue....or they do start but freeze at a given point (5%, 15%, 40% complete).

I would think this has to do with the DSLR #2 cam but that's what I want your insight on. I then close the proj out + encoder, and reopen and repeat until it works. It's worked for all with exception of one video.

Why is the DSLR giving such trouble - as listed above?

Any solutions for this?

The DSLR plays choppy as well, even when I match sequence exactly to video. But, my computer isn't taxed at all = low CPU/RAM.

Don't understand it...

All I know is it's a massive pain in the tush!

Other details...

I tried editing via the multicam monitor but the playback was so choppy I decided to just created a nested sequence and edit via timeline.

The sequence that worked best = specs matching Cam #1 (listed above) I went with that.

Is there a better way to setup the sequence for two diff camera's with diff properties?

Maybe...right clicking the DSLR footage - interpreting footage - assume frame rate...and maybe other settings?

Other issues that you may be able to help out with...

When you create a nested sequence and enable multi-cam - the audio waveform disappears. I tried a few things and searched around for a way to get audio waveform to reappear. Ultimately, I rendered the audio and audio wave pops back up.


If I have to close project, switch to another project or the proj crashes, etc.....the rendered audio waveform disappears and I need to re-render again. Is there a way to remedy this? I just need to see the waveform without having to re-render or render at all. I only need one audio track for the two camera's.

Thanks for your help - really appreciate it.

P.S. - don't know why it's highlighting my text w/white box...tried fixing but no dice.

  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 27, 2012 3:37 PM   in reply to npags711

    don't know why it's highlighting my text w/white box...tried fixing but no dice.



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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 27, 2012 3:41 PM   in reply to npags711

    Is there a better way to setup the sequence for two diff camera's with diff properties?


    Honestly, the better way is to shoot using two of the same camera, or at least two cameras capable of the same settings.  Your DSLR footage is fine, your camera 1 footage is less than ideal.  Not much help now, but in the future, get a second DSLR for best results and skip camera 1.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 27, 2012 6:50 PM   in reply to npags711
    It's the client's camera's so not much to be done there...


    Convince them they're doing it wrong and the end product will not be as good.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 27, 2012 6:51 PM   in reply to npags711

    doesn't have an option to edit my original pos


    Once someone replies, you lose the ability to edit.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 27, 2012 8:11 PM   in reply to npags711

    Fix it in the old-fashioned way: transcode your Camera #1 footages with settings that match your Camera #2 ones.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 27, 2012 11:27 PM   in reply to npags711

    Theoretically there's no reason why mismatched footage can't be mixed this way, it is after all the headline selling point for Premiere Pro over the competition. Practically, some footage is nastier than others. Prosumer DSLR footage has some of the most complex compression (H.264/AAC) so it places a huge load on Pr when it's doing the internal upsampling and interpolation. If it's edited on a matching timeline  you generally don't see much of a drag thanks to the Mercury Playback Engine, but you're placing DSLR footage at 1:1 PAR onto a DV sequence at 1:1.33 (which in turn needs to be re-dimensioned again so Pr can display your monitors with square pixels). All in all, a huge bunch of pixel-pushing.


    I agree with Fuzzy - if your system can't cope with the dynamic matching, transcode your DV camera #1 clip into regular 1080p and use a matching sequence for the multicam. Beyond that, you could render proxies for everything.


    About the multicam audio waveform - sorry but that's how it is; you don't get to see the waveform in the nested timeline, though if you're using a separate audio track in the final edit you can just mute the MC track and drop another one onto the sequence.


    Your post indicates other issues though - choppy playback is a classic side effect of complex footage but not finding or importing the media at all suggests there's a problem with your storage. What's your disk setup?

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 28, 2012 7:03 AM   in reply to npags711

    My system does seem to be able to handle it b/c as I said, I have low CPU/RAM usage and I'm GPU accelerated.


    All the more proof that the CPU/RAM is waiting for your disks to finish their disk activities.


    First question: How is the external connected? eSATA, FW800/400 or USB2/3?


    Second question: Given a certain amount of traffic, do you prefer to drive on a 4 lane highway or on a single lane road with traffic lights, allowing traffic from one direction only and stopping the traffic from the other direction? The second situation is what you are actually doing with everything on your C: drive.


    Media pending is nothing more than traffic waiting for the light to change.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 28, 2012 7:04 AM   in reply to npags711

    Tanscoding was proposed as a workaround so that you could finish the project.


    With some probability either your external HDD or its connection is a bottleneck.

    However, as you suspect, there is also a chance of footages issue.


    Since you already presented some of your spec:


    CPU - i7 quad core;

    RAM - 16 GB;

    GPU - GTX550Ti;

    HDD - ? OS drive; 500 GB ext. HDD;

    PrPro CS5.5;


    what are your OS, external HDD speed and system drive spec?

    Do you have all the applications and drivers updates installed?

    Are you experiencing this issue when just those DSLR footages are in use or the same things happen with other media files as well?

    Do you have some 3rd party software, codecs installed?

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 28, 2012 7:32 AM   in reply to npags711

    and it doesn't have an option to edit my original post now...


    all the text is scrunched together - makes it tougher to read...


    Jim has addressed the Edit function.


    As for the second part, are you referring to the paragraph spacing, and lack of Line Breaks? If so, please send me a Personal Message (just click on my Profile, and in the upper-right of the page, click on Send Personal Message), and we will see if we can correct things, like Line Breaks.


    Good luck,



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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2012 7:18 AM   in reply to npags711

    Your 500 GB Verbatim disk, which I assume to be a USB2 external, is disastrous for performance. Even a new and empty USB2 disk will achieve transfer rates around 20 - 25 MB/s, depending on the number of USB devices attached, but when filled to around 80+%, that transfer rate will decrease even more and become a real bottleneck.


    DSLR material is heavily compressed and needs to be decompressed instantly for fluid playback, requiring lots of space, both memory and hard disk space and that may be where you have the problems.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2012 11:38 AM   in reply to npags711

    Since Harm generally answered your question, just a couple of notes.


    So as to measure HDD speed you can either use some 3rd party utilities or run built-in winSAT under Command Prompt (important: run Command Prompt in Administrator mode so as to see winSAT test results inside Command Prompt window; otherwise it opens a new window that will be automatically closed on the test finish).


    If that's all Greek to you, just trust Harm.
    If your external HDD is heavily defragmented, things are even worse.
    Do not rely on Windows defrag utility. Rather exploit Auslogic Disk Defrag.


    Since you have some room on your system drive, as a temporary workaround move your footages on it (at least those DSLR ones).


    And for the long run rebuild your rig.

    So as to optimise your config for PrPro in general, check out PPBM website running by Harm.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 5:50 AM   in reply to npags711

    Can't comment on your PPBM6 scores, if they are for your external USB drive.

    My ones (PPBM5 though) for quite slow (5400 RPM) internal 1TB WD Caviar Green look worser: "153","263","266","169" (software only), - but I haven't experienced any difficulties with editing various H.264 footages so far.


    Regard to temporarily moving footages onto your C: drive, you could have actually tested that so as to see if it gives any differences: copying about 100 GB takes around 30 min - that is much less than several days waiting a reply on the Forum...

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 6:31 AM   in reply to npags711

    I didn't intend to offend you in any case.

    But actually you could have tested if there were any differences with your 'old' footages since you were experiencing issues with them. And that wouldn't definitely take long, whereas could contribute into nailing your issue down.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 1:46 PM   in reply to npags711

    Apart from the duration there is no a lot of deviations in what you can see in PrPro vs QuickTime. QuickTime displays a movie frame size in the Format field according to the player's current size. Actual frame size - 1920x1080 - is displayed in the Normal Size field.


    Bitrate in PrPro is shown in MBytes/sec, whereas in QuickTime in mbits/sec. 1 Byte = 8 bits.


    Regard to transcoding software, you can use either Adobe Prelude or Adobe Media Encoder.


    Regard to intermediate codecs, have a look at this thread in After Effects Forum so as to save me on some copying-pasting. Bear in mind that transcoding to a production codec requires some disk space, on which you're limited now.


    Regard to 'extending' clips length while interpreting your 29.97 fps footages as 23.976 fps ones, yes, that's normal behaviour, since you're telling PrPro, 'Please, palyback those footages at the speed of 23.976 frames per second'. And what should PrPro do with remaining roughly 6 frames?


    Actually, you shouldn't reinterpret your footages at all. Just create a sequence out of your DSLR clips, drop there your DV ones as well, and PrPro will try its best to mix them. Yes, if they were exactly the same camera angle, you would probably see some frame mismatch, but they are not. Try, and it may appear you don't need a transcoding at all.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2012 7:30 AM   in reply to npags711

    It is not clear which sluggish playback your are talking about. Final exporting in your media player, playback in the Multicam Monitor or playback while previewing edited multicam sequence in the Program Monitor?


    Regard to downloading footages via FTP, yes, you could end up with corrupted media files.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2012 9:35 AM   in reply to npags711


    The only way I know for improving performance while you're in multicam is using proxies.

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