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BenRobinson2010
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converting to profile makes black 4 colour?

Nov 30, 2012 5:19 AM

Hi, I'm using InDesign CS5.5 and producing material for printing. The printers that we use we work very closely with. They use the profile Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12649-2:2004) for their press. Material that i have produced for them in the past using this as the output intent profile name when creating the pdf as worked fine. However, when i asked it to convert to profile, using the same profile, it converts black (key) to four colour. When its printed this can create a slight blurring and is obviously a waste of ink as well. Any thoughts on why it does this?

553 Views   7 Replies   Latest reply: Rob Day, Nov 30, 2012 11:10 AM
 
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  • Peter Spier
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    1. Peter Spier,
    Nov 30, 2012 6:14 AM   in reply to BenRobinson2010
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    What is the profile assigned to the document? The fast way to check is Edit > Convert to Profile... and then cancel.

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    2. Peter Spier,
    Nov 30, 2012 6:15 AM   in reply to Peter Spier
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    And are we talking about objects created in ID or that were imported?

     
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  • BenRobinson2010
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    3. BenRobinson2010,
    Nov 30, 2012 7:09 AM   in reply to Peter Spier
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    The profile assigned to the document is the same - coated fogra39 etc etc. Its objects created in indesign - the main problem is the text going from black to full colour

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    4. Peter Spier,
    Nov 30, 2012 7:30 AM   in reply to BenRobinson2010
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    ID should most definitely not be converting 100%K in a 4-color mix unless there is a change in profile. Are you seeing the change in your PDF, or only in the output from the printer? If you see it in your PDF using Acrobat's output preview, the problem is someplace in what you are doing, if not the printer is adding a new conversion and you need to find out what that is.

     

    If you see the conversion in the PDF you should go back and make sure that the color space is really correct in ID in the file (Edit > ASSIGN Profiles [you want to assign, not convert, or you'll make rich blacks in this operation]) or in the Export settings (Convert to profile (Preserve Numbers)). If the profile is correct in ID you should be able to output either with colors unchanged (if there is no RGB or other out of profile content) or either of the Convert to Profile options, perserving or not preserving numbers, and your native objects won't change.

     
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  • BenRobinson2010
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    5. BenRobinson2010,
    Nov 30, 2012 7:43 AM   in reply to Peter Spier
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    Hi,

    yes the four colours are in the pdf - when i use the output preview in acrobat the 'black' areas are rich black rather than pure key - thats useful as its definitely something my end rather than with the printers. I set up the document in the fogra39 profile but when i was creating the pdf didn't use the convert to profile (preserve numbers) option, so i guess thats where the problem is coming in.

     
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  • Peter Spier
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    6. Peter Spier,
    Nov 30, 2012 7:56 AM   in reply to BenRobinson2010
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    The only reason that your 100% K should convert during export though, even if you don't use the Preserve Numbers option, is if the document working profile and the output profile are not the same, so you need to double-check your settings.

     
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  • Rob Day
    2,299 posts
    Oct 16, 2007
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    7. Rob Day,
    Nov 30, 2012 11:10 AM   in reply to BenRobinson2010
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    The profile assigned to the document is the same - coated fogra39 etc etc.

     

    ...when i use the output preview in acrobat the 'black' areas are rich black rather than pure key.

     

    If you assign a profile Acrobat's Output Preview shows you the values based on the destination  or Simulation Profile. So here I exported to Fogra39 and included the profile, but the Simulation Profile is set to my Acrobat working CMYK profile US SWOP Coated, so the numbers show the conversion from Fogra39 to US SWOP:

     

     

     

    AcrobatScreenSnapz002.png

     

     

     

     

    If I set the Simulation Profile to Fogra39 there's no conflict and I get 100% Black:

     

     

     

    AcrobatScreenSnapz001.png

     

     

     

    If you export to PDF/X-1a or 4 the Simulation Profile will default to your doc's profile when you open the PDF.

     
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