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BrackmannPhotography Calculating status...

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Can't save in Adobe RGB, Elements 10

Dec 8, 2012 4:09 PM

I want to save a picture from Elements 10 to an Adobe RGB color space .jpg file. I have set the color management optimiztion to Adobe RGB but it still saves as sRGB. In the Save As window it says it is saving as ICC Adobe RGB but it saves it sRGB anyway! Also, there's no way to know this unless you run another program that detects the color space, such as QImage. Is this a bug or am I missing something? I want to save in Adobe RGB.

1203 Views 23 Replies Latest reply: R_Kelly, Dec 12, 2012 10:32 AM

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1. hatstead,

Dec 8, 2012 4:48 PM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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I recall a discussion of this some time ago. I think that sRGB is in the metadata from the digital camera.

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2. BrackmannPhotography,

Dec 8, 2012 5:15 PM in reply to hatstead

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No. It's not from the camera. The camera is set to Adobe RGB or whatever it's supposed to be. When I use Elements 9 I have no problem saving an Adobe RGB file.
I would contact Adobe about this but there's no way to contact them. I'm a bit frustrated tthat I can't use a product I paid for. Why would I want to upgrade to Elements 11?

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3. R_Kelly,

Dec 8, 2012 7:24 PM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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Your opening the image with camera raw?

Under Image>Color Settings you have it set to Always Optimize for Printing?

After you open the image into pse 10, what profile does it list at the bottom left of the image window?

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4. R_Kelly,

Dec 8, 2012 8:02 PM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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Some where along the way (in photoshop cs5 to conform with the current standards)) adobe changed the way the data was written to jpegs, so pse 10 might have that change as well and some programs won't read the data right.

I just saved a canon EOS 60D file to jpeg from pse 10 in the adobe rgb 1998 color space and both krita and gimp said the profile was adobe rgb 1998.

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5. 27Prac,

Dec 8, 2012 10:02 PM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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Before saving the image in JPEG , convert its profile to Adobe RGB using "Image Menu>Convert Color Profile" and then choose "Convert to Adobe RGB profile. Now save the image.

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6. BrackmannPhotography,

Dec 9, 2012 4:49 AM in reply to R_Kelly

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When I open the image into Photoshop 10 directly after editing in Camera
RAW and then choosing Document Profile for what to display in the bottom
left corner of the image window it says Adobe RGB.

Thanks for continuing to get back to me!

Warren

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7. BrackmannPhotography,

Dec 9, 2012 1:02 PM in reply to 27Prac

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When I go to "Image Menu>Convert Color Profile" the "Convert to Adobe RGB"
profile is grayed out, which I assume means it's already in Adobe RGB since
the convert to sRGB is not grayed out.

Warren

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8. MichelBParis,

Dec 9, 2012 11:52 PM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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Everything is a confirmation that your image is in aRGB.
What is not clearly explained by the previous posts, is that the camera setting of aRGB or sRGB is only active for jpegs.
Raw files from camera have no color profile.
At most, your camera setting choice may be recorded in the metadata.
In Elements, you have no menu to choose the color space in the ACR dialog. That choice is made by selecting your option in the editor, menu edit/color settings.
If you choose 'Optimize for printing', that option is transferred to the ACR plug-in to do the proper conversion in aRGB.
(Note that if you are starting with an sRGB jpeg, you won't gain anything in converting to aRGB).

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9. BrackmannPhotography,

Dec 10, 2012 3:24 AM in reply to MichelBParis

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Thank you for your reply.

I'm using QImage to print the image after it is edited in, and saved from,
PSE 10.

I do everything as you said. I open the image into PSE from camera RAW and
it says Adobe RGB in the lower left corner. I then save the image as Adobe
RGB. Then I open the image in QImage and it says the image is in sRGB.

When I do the same thing with PSE 9, QImage says the image is in Adobe RGB.

An interesting thing is that, using PSE 10, I read the saved (by PSE 10) image,
that QImage says is sRGB, back into PSE 10, PSE 10 says it is Adobe RGB down
in the lower left corner.

When I read the image saved by PSE 10 (Qimage says sRGB) into PSE 9, it
also says Adobe RGB in the lower left corner.

There is something wrong. QImage thinks files saved by PSE 10 are sRGB and
files saved the same way by PSE 9 are Adobe RGB.

Thanks again!

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10. MichelBParis,

Dec 10, 2012 5:12 AM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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I just did a test with a raw image (CR2) processed through ACR with the preference option set to 'Optimize for print'. Not surprisingly, the raw conversion resulted in an aRGB profile. Then I tested if color aware software like Firefox or Faststone could recognize the profile : they did not.
I then searched in the exif viewer plugin of Firefox : the standard location is not documented : 'uncalibrated'. But if you delve into the Adobe specific section of the metadata, you find the correct profile, which explains why other Adobe software do recognize it.
I'll have to check with other versions (6 and 11) to see if they behave in the same way... it won't be long!

Edit :
I do not see any change in versions 6 and 11 compared with version 10. (I don't have version 9 nor qImage).

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11. BrackmannPhotography,

Dec 10, 2012 3:06 PM in reply to MichelBParis

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Okay, What do we do now?

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12. R_Kelly,

Dec 10, 2012 3:34 PM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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What happens if you save the image in the tiff format instead of jpeg?

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13. BrackmannPhotography,

Dec 10, 2012 4:21 PM in reply to R_Kelly

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Yes. It appears that PSE 10 saves the tiff image as Adobe RGB, according
to QImage. So now what? I can't save jpg as Adobe RGB? Is this a bug?

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14. MichelBParis,

Dec 10, 2012 11:44 PM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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BrackmannPhotography wrote:

Yes. It appears that PSE 10 saves the tiff image as Adobe RGB, according
to QImage. So now what? I can't save jpg as Adobe RGB? Is this a bug?
To be precise : it seems you can't save jpegs edited in Elements as Adobe RGB (the real color space being aRGB) with a correct metatdata understandable by non Adobe softwares. Your image is really in Adobe RBG, but Qimage or other software won't read the info present in the Adobe section of the metadata.
Is it a bug ? If that is confirmed I believe so, but I don't understand why a serious software like qimage is unable to get the info in the metadata.

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15. R_Kelly,

Dec 11, 2012 12:07 AM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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In photoshop elements 10 are you using File>Save As or File>Save?

Are there layers in the file before saving?

From my understanding of QImage, it will default to sRGB if it thinks there is no profile embedded.

What version of QImage are you using?

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16. R_Kelly,

Dec 11, 2012 12:20 AM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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Here's something over on photoshop.com that is similar to your experience:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/duel_color_space s_embedded_in_files

I don't know whether whatever change in photoshop cs5 was carried over to pse 10 or not, but it seems QImage was updated to fix the issue.

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17. MichelBParis,

Dec 11, 2012 2:36 AM in reply to R_Kelly

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With this document, it's very clear what happened in the metadata. Who is right, Adobe or Qimage ?
- The color space is stored in two places in the metadata. The first one is not changed by Adobe. When Adobe makes changes, they are stored in the Adobe section of the metadata.
- Qimage reads only the first one, ignoring the Adobe section. Is it ok ? Qimage ignoring Adobe section is not smart and does not seem prudent from a marketing point of view ... and perhaps it's a bit arrogant from Adobe to expect other developers to take its own metadata into account. It's up to you to choose.
- Both parties rejected the responsability to the other one... and both took measures to correct the problem in ulterior versions.

What I'd like to stress is that there is no way to tell the profile of a jpeg except if that is written in the metadata section. That does not solve the problem of BrackmanPhotography with his present versions of PSE and Qimage .

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18. BrackmannPhotography,

Dec 11, 2012 5:17 AM in reply to MichelBParis

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R_Kelly and MichelBParis,

Thank you for looking into this for me!

I'll try to answer R_Kelly's questions. Not sure if it matters at this
point but...

Do I use File Save, or File Save As? I use both. I usually use File Save
As when saving jpg.

Are there layers in the file before saving? No. I always Flatten Image
before saving jpg.

What version of QImage am I using? I'm using an old version, v2005.101. I
see that the latest version is, v2010.209 I believe. This issue may have
been corrected in subsequent versions beyond v2005.101. I'm not going to
be able to determine this myself as I have the old version I got from a
friend just to see if the files are sRGB or AdobeRGB. I don't have a
printer hooked up myself. My friend has the printer; an Epson 9800 44"
printer.

I see the thread from the PS / QImage posts. Interesting. Yes, seems like
there are similar issues there.

Let me see if I understand all this so I can take the appropriate measures.
It appears that, due to the color space data being written in 2 places in
jpg, QImage is the culprit in that it doesn't read the place where the
Adobe color space information is written. (Adobe may be arrogant but...).
I wonder why Qimage recognizes the Adobe color space information in TIFF
files and not in JPEGs. Assuming Qimage does recognize the Adobe color
space information in TIFF files does that mean I need to save in TIFF and send
TIFF files to QImage? If this is true then one should save using TIFF
format and not JPEG using the v2005 version of QImage, which is what my
friend prints my images with. The disadvantage in doing this is that the
TIFF files are much larger to store that JPEGs. But, given the situation I
need to save in TIFF. Is that correct?

Thanks a lot!

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19. MichelBParis,

Dec 11, 2012 5:33 AM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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I have come to exactly the same conclusion : exporting in tiff may be the only solution with the disadvantage of bigger file size.

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20. BrackmannPhotography,

Dec 11, 2012 6:05 AM in reply to MichelBParis

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Well, I guess that's that. Thank you for all your attention to this issue!

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21. R_Kelly,

Dec 11, 2012 10:19 AM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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Well there is one more thing you might try, as strange as it sounds, you might try unchecking the save profile box in the save as dialog and see if QImage
reads the Adobe 1998 (aRGB) profile correctly.

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22. BrackmannPhotography,

Dec 12, 2012 2:21 AM in reply to R_Kelly

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R_Kelly,

Thank you for the suggestion. When I tried unchecking the save profile box
in the Save As dialog it had no effect. QImage still sees the file as sRGB.

You all may not be able to tell me this but I'd like to know is subsequent
versions of QImage have rectified this issue.

Warren

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23. R_Kelly,

Dec 12, 2012 10:32 AM in reply to BrackmannPhotography

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I don't know as i don't use QImage.

They may have a trial version that you could try.

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