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Reverse Telecine

Dec 10, 2012 4:51 PM

Hello All,

 

Does anyone know how to do a reverse telecine in any of the software in CS6?

 

Thnk you all for reading.

 

-john

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 10, 2012 4:55 PM   in reply to johnsirabella

    PP does this automatically when you add 24p media with pulldown to a 24p sequence.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 10, 2012 5:05 PM   in reply to johnsirabella

    Yes, by adding it to a 24p sequence.

     

    (On a side note, there is no such thing as 60i.  That's a misnomer that technically means 60 interlaced frames per second, which simply doesn't exist.  The correct label is 30i, and is the same thing as 29.97.)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 10, 2012 5:51 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim Simon wrote:

     

    (On a side note, there is no such thing as 60i.  That's a misnomer that technically means 60 interlaced frames per second, which simply doesn't exist.  The correct label is 30i, and is the same thing as 29.97.)

    The fact that many of the presets within Premiere itself are written as 1080i60 would seem to disagree with you. Plus many professionals around the world prefer the term 60i.

     

    Both terms are correct, and there's a lot of regional variations as to which one is more commonly used. I think you're taking a very prescriptive view of language where a descriptive view is more appropriate.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 10, 2012 9:09 PM   in reply to SimonHy

    The longhand convention is horizontal resolution, followed by the i or p as appropriate, followed by a slash, followed by the FRAME RATE.  1080i/30

     

    The short form is to drop the resolution and move the i or p after the FRAME RATE.  30i

     

    No matter how many people insist on listing field rate doesn't make it right.  You never say a "female woman" as all woman are female.  Similarly, you never say "interlaced fields" as all video fields are interlaced.  Both are redundant and improper grammar.

     

    If you specify interlaced or progressive, then you only say frames, and thus only ever list the FRAME RATE.  Hence, 60i does not exist.  When people say that, they are incorrectly saying 30i.

     

    Adobe seems to recognize this as sequence presets are correctly listed as 25 or 30 frames, even when interlaced (with the incorrect designation following in parenthesis as an aid to understanding simply because so many others do get it wrong).

     

    The point here is uniformity, so that everyone is on the same page.  So much confusion has been caused by not following the convention above.  It's best not to continue that trend.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 10, 2012 9:45 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Conventions change. There's nothing magic about frame rates that mean they have to be the convention, and typing it in all caps doesn't make it true.

     

    Of course you can say "interlaced fields". In the same way that you have said :"fields are interlaced", you can re-phrase that as "they are interlaced fields". It's a verb and a noun, the verb qualifies the noun, there's nothing grammatically incorrect about it. Totally different  grammatical structure to "female woman". Just because something is implied or redundant doesn't make it wrong, it's called clarifying.

     

    And that's at the heart of why I prefer 60i. I've had so many people express confusion about how interlacing works, or just plain get it wrong, and the most common mistake I've come across is that the two fields are recorded at the same time. Once you clarify that there are 60 increments of time recorded in a 60i clip, it makes a lot more sense to people. 60i puts that out there and makes it clear from the start. Much better.

     

    But that's just my opinion. If you prefer 30i as a term that's fine with me, but it is a subjective opinion, not an objective one.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
    4,391 posts
    Dec 6, 2009
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    Feb 8, 2013 3:21 PM   in reply to johnsirabella

    I prefer doing this in Ae... either natively or with a plugin (ReVision FieldsKit).

     

    Remove 3:2 or 24Pa pulldown from video

     

    Edit:

    Keep in mind that if the piece was edited @29.97, it is unlikely

    that the 3:2 sequence will be the same from shot to shot.

    In fact, you will likely end up with some incomplete frames @24p.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
    4,391 posts
    Dec 6, 2009
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    Feb 8, 2013 3:46 PM   in reply to johnsirabella

    If I get the plug in will that deal with the issue if the piece was edited in 29.97.

    Nope.

    And, there is nothing lesser about using the native

    method in Ae that is described in the link above.

    my best guess would be is that it was edited in 24p as it is a very recent feature.

    My best guess (if it was shot on film @24 and transfered in telecine to 29.97)...

    it was probably edited @29.97.

    Is revision the better way to go in geneal?

    I assume you mean reverting to 24p...  it depends on what you intend to do.

    For example if you have 29.97 with 3:2 pulldown inserted and need to do

    a composite with that clip, it is imperative to remove the fields.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Feb 8, 2013 4:17 PM   in reply to johnsirabella

    In your case, I would suggest following Jim Simon's advice in posts #1, 3 & 5.

     

    Doing 3:2 removal for bulk footage in Ae is not really practical.

    Ae is best when you need to remove, comp, then add the 3:2 back.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Feb 9, 2013 4:02 PM   in reply to johnsirabella

    Ok.

    If I were in your place, I would take one of your field encoded broadcast

    program masters into Ae and run a test to see how long it takes to remove

    the 3:2 pulldown and re-encode to a lossless 24p file for editing.

    At that point, you can use a native frame rate sequence in Premiere

    to speed up your editing, and you will have a 24p master for your archives.

     

    Whatever method you choose, there is no reason for you to send this

    job out of house... you have the tools in hand if you have the time.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Feb 11, 2013 7:24 AM   in reply to johnsirabella
    ...there is a show I am doing now that they say is 29.97 native but for some reason I find it hard to believe they would still do that now.

    It is not at all unusual or outdated to shoot and edit at 29.97i.

    Is there anyway for me to check if that is the native format or not?  Will any program be able to tell if a 3:2 pulldown is there or not? 

    If every frame is interlaced, the footage is likely native 29.97i.

    If the interlacing follows a 3:2 pattern (three non-interlaced frames

    followed by two interlaced frames, repeat) the footage is likely

    native 24p converted to 29.97i.

     

    Here are some resources to aid in understanding:

    Fields and Interlacing

     

    Interlaced video and separating fields

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 24, 2013 11:28 AM   in reply to johnsirabella

    Most people use After Effects to remove pulldown, and it usually works very well. Some people do the pulldown and preliminary grading in AE, then import it into PP for cutting, sort of the opposite of what you might find ideal in terms of workflow. Although technically Premiere Pro should remove the pulldown on the fly, if you compare individual frames with properly removed pulldown you will sometimes see strange artifacts and distortion. Whether this affects all cameras I can't say, but it is a problem with all my Canon and Panasonic cameras and camcorders (put not if you shoot real 24p, obviously).

     

    So short answer, AE for pulldown, if using PP render out a few test frames to see if you are happy with the result.

    I usually set AE to "guess" the pulldown.

     
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