I know this is been said before but indesign really is unworkable for long periods of time without getting a headache. It is a program designed for text and when that text is unreadable it's a problem. Please please please update this soon.
Agree. Thanks for the advice Alec, but user interface elements are tiny enough without displaying them at 220 ppi. That might work if you have better than 20/20 eyesight. And we shouldn't have to strain our eyes trying to use the program in order to not strain our eyes looking at text. Just update InDesign as soon as you can.
Using Adobe since PSD 2 and 3 on the macintosh platform I noticed Adobe was always slow to adapt to the Mac tech. I think it's shameful to let us pay full retail and delivery an old school interface. As a billion dollar company you should have the resources to develop these screen adjustment from day one rather quickly. Sometimes one wishes Apple bought this company.
Maybe you wish Apple did but I'm quite happy knowing they didn't.
As for your remarks, Adobe has been adapting to Apple's changes as
quickly as possible. Are you under the impression that Adobe somehow has
advanced notice of these hardware changes?
Because if you think they get inside information you are sadly mistaken.
Have patience. Photoshop and Illustrator are done and both have been
InDesign still hasn't been and that may or may not be the hold up.
Bob, I apprechiate you are chiming in however this message was intended for Adobe ppl. I do feel as a long time Adobe user I am being let down. And it's very annoying to hear form a fellow board member everything is good and peechy. Let the staff members tell me the PR spin. There is really no sugar coding it on this matter.
I understand your disappointment and frustration about the fact that InDesign doesn't have an immediate update to support Apple's new “Retina” displays.
What you must understand is that Apple gave Adobe absolutely no advanced warning about these new displays or indication that it would not be compatible with the existing “carbon” program interfaces. Maybe you should also be let down with Apple as well!
Adobe was and is in process of converting InDesign to remove the use of the “carbon” interfaces from InDesign and use the newer OS interfaces that provide for compatibility with the “Retina” displays. However, as perhaps Adobe's most complex software product, implementing and testing such changes is much more difficult and time-consuming than for smaller products such as Illustrator and Photoshop. They have been in progress since even before the release of CS6. The support for “Retina” along with the common interface (choice of dark or light) will be available for the next major release of InDesign.
Dov, thanks for the long explanation. I do find it hard to believe after Apple released a few years ago the iPhone and iPad retina, that Adobe didn't anticipated the move towards larger displays. Seems like a clear business evolution in the market.
I don't even want to argue. I cross my fingers that the whole CS suites sees an update quick. I looks a lot better crisp.
Have a good weekend and thanks again everyone for their feedback.
I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but you could enable HiDPI as far ago as December 2011, see this article: http://www.cultofmac.com/132751/enable-retina-like-hidpi-display-modes -in-os-x-lion-video-how-to/
I know plenty of OS X and iOS developers and as soon as that info came out they a) started planning for the transition and b) pretty much knew how Apple will handle high-resolution displays (same as they did on iOS—by doing resolution doubling).
If Adobe was somehow "surprised" by this then they have a bunch of idiot managers on their InDesign team. And, no, it’s not Apple’s fault that Adobe’s apps don’t use Cocoa’s UI controls but are instead going for some weird ***, half-flash-half-not combination of a home grown UI framework monstrosity. They’ve been trying to have a "magic" UI framework that works across Windows and OS X for over a decade and it has never worked well (at least not on the Mac side). You’d think they'd learn it one day, but apparently idiot corporate policies like "Flash is an app development framework, now!" trump pragmatic engineering decisions.
As for the non UI, content rendering—if it works at 200% zoom, it works with HiDPI.
To be honest, seeing how little in terms of innovative features Illustrator gets I was really surprised by its retina support being out as quick—and InDesign’s being MIA.
It’s fascinating that Apple can make do with Cocoa which is at its core a UI framework that is over a decade old while Adobe has been fumbling around like a bunch of amateurs.
And, yes, this post was brought to you by having to work with InDesign over the weekend on a retina MacBook Pro and googling to see if or when an update is forthcoming. *grumble*
With regards to be being able to enable HiDPI as are ago as December 2011, CS6 was already locked down in terms of featues and functionality by December 2011. The code was only open for significant bug fixes. And HiDPI was not going to be implemented until the transition from Carbon to Cocoa was complete, a process that will be complete with the next full version of InDesign.
The issue of Carbon and Cocoa has been discussed numerous times in various threads in multiple Adobe forums and I will not rehash it, but Cocoa was a work-in-progress for many years and did not have all the system interfaces required and used by InDesign, an application which is much more complex than any of the relatively simple Apple applications and even Adobe's Photoshop and Illustrator applications. Cocoa wasn't ready for prime time when the transition was made to MacOS X or when the transition was made from PowerPC to Intel processors. Must of Adobe's engineering bandwidth was spent making both of those transitions, neither of which were at all trivial (in the latter case, Apple's XCode tools couldn't even compile the Adobe applications and much time was spent working directly with Apple to resolve these issues as quickly as possible!)
And yes, Adobe software does and will continue to work cross-platform. That is a requirement of our user base, Mac fanatics notwithstanding.
And by the way, your own credibility is not particularly enhanced by snarky remarks with regards to Adobe's engineering and corporate management (i.e., “idiot managers on their InDesign team” and “idiot corporate policies”). What are your engineering and product management credentials?
I agreewith Sam. Don't see why end users should have to factor in the technical logistics here, we're not the ones getting paid to write software. It's been a while since Retina hit the wire, other publishers have gotten across it. Am looking forward to a more usable version of InDesign.
I gave up my Adobe fanboy membership a long time ago, but I'll side with them on this one. Even casual users need to anticipate and be prepared to deal with potential problems stemming from ANY significant hardware or software upgrade. In this case, even a small bit of due diligence would have revealed that this hardware upgrade would be incompatible with your critical software. I'm all for early adopting on my personal machines, but know that when you live on the cutting edge you're going to get cut once in a while. Stick with tried and tested setups for your money making rigs.
In this case, even a small bit of due diligence would have revealed that this hardware upgrade would be incompatible with your critical software.
That's an excellent point. Apple has created the illusion that its faithful must have every one of its new innovations the moment it's announced. Good for them. Bad for you. Apple is not some magical beast that does no wrong. It's every bit the hungry corporate kool-aid machine that Adobe is repeatedly accused of being. Both trains don't always run on the same track. When there's a divergence, judging which one screwed you in particular is strictly a matter of perspective...your perspective; not their's.
Very informative thread. Has Adobe released any sort of timeframe as to the release? InDesign retina support wasnt a deal-breaker for me buying the retina MacBook, but it would be nice. Aplogies if I'm veering this thread on another path entirely but does anyone know a way to make at least the on-screen text and images look somewhat better (other than making everything else minutely small with the "more space" display option) ?
Thanks in advance.
Adobe has announced a more frequent release schedule for CS products. They haven't released a time frame, but you may have noticed that new product releases have come about once a year. You won't see HIDPI in InDesign CS6 as Dov pointed out above, but it should appear in future releases.
As indicated in this thread, there will not be an updated for this, but rather, such support will appear in the next full product release. Adobe has not yet made such a product announcement.
Adobe doesn't pre-announce products until they're close to release. Keep your eyes open by checking regularly on the Adobe.com website, and by watching keynotes at events like the Adobe MAX Conference in May where announcements can sometimes be made.
What everyone here fails to even mention is the compleat lack of support for Indesign period, Mac or PC when compared to other Adobe software. Even Fireworks got the new interface update before Indesign with CS6, what's that all about. For Indesign to be such an important cornerstone of the Adobe suite, especially with it's "Digital Publishing Suite" addition, it boggles the mind why it does not get more love. And don't listen to Bob, he runs to Adobe defense and poo poos Apple any chance he gets and loves to give vague facts when it comes to how fast something is able to be complete as is his reasoning why it's not done. Adobe and others have known for years about higher resolution displays, Apple did not invent this they were simply one of the first to implement them.
I completely agree with Ryan on this one (except for singling out any individuals). InDesign CS6 has been buggy from the start (not just on MacBooks but also on highly-specced windows-based, SSD boasting Quad core systems) and the way I see it, if Photoshop and Illustrator can be optimised for Retina, so should InDesign. Adobe is not a start-up with limited resources, it's a goliath. It's impossible to work on a MacBook Pro with Retina and after these many months, it's plain unacceptable. Too bad there's no other tool that matches InDesign's capability though.
Bugginess is a completely different issue from retina support. ID is a very complex bit of programming, maybe the most complex program in the Creative Suite, and as has been mentioned already, all of the code needs to be re-worked to get 64-bit and Retina display support. Allocation of developer time, up to now, has been tilted towards new features rather than making the application 64-bit -- users seem to want to be able to do epub and dps, and there are only so many man-hours available in the release cycle, so things get prioritized.
Well now with the anouncement of CC at MAX 2013 InDesign will have retina display along with many other new feutures including 64-Bit support. Unfortunantly this update is only avaliadle if you have the creative cloud but personaly I think it is worth it becaus because if you already have CS3 or later or if you are a teacher or student then you can get creative cloud for only 20 bucks a month* instead of the regular 50 bucks. If you want to you can also just get one of the apps like just InDesign you just pay 20 bucks a moth**.
*Discounted price lasts for 1 year only
**First year will be $20 but after one year price will go to $30 a month
CS3-CS5.5 intro pricing is $29.99/month. CS6 and student intro is $19.99/month.
But I agree, it's worth it. Here's my take on it for those that might still have some questions: http://boblevine.us/adobes-creative-cloud-perception-vs-reality/
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