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Neutral Overlay Layer Inside a Group Screws Up All the Layers Below It

Dec 12, 2012 11:25 AM

A Group in NORMAL mode containing  a NEUTRAL OVERLAY layer blocks all the layers below and outside the Group with a solid grey color.  Feature or problem?

545 Views   18 Replies   Latest reply: conroy, Dec 14, 2012 4:42 AM
 
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  • Terri Stone
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    1. Terri Stone,
    Dec 13, 2012 3:44 PM   in reply to AEP22
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    Hi. Because the forum you originally posted in is for beginners trying to learn the basics of Photoshop, I moved your question to the Photoshop General Discussion forum.

     
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  • conroy
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    2. conroy,
    Dec 13, 2012 4:49 PM   in reply to AEP22
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    There's no screw up.

     

    The Group does not have Pass Through mode, therefore its bottom layer's blending mode is irrelevant and that layer will be considered to have Normal mode.

     
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  • AEP22
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    3. AEP22,
    Dec 13, 2012 4:54 PM   in reply to conroy
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    This reply does not make any sense. Bottom layer or layers cannot even be seen. The neutral gray overlay layer inside the top NORMAL mode group blocks every layer below with a solid grey image.

     
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  • conroy
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    4. conroy,
    Dec 13, 2012 5:02 PM   in reply to AEP22
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    My reply did make sense. You failed to make sense of it. The bottom layer to which I referred is the bottom layer inside the group. I constructed the sentence to make that clear; the pronoun it referred to the object the Group.

     
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  • AEP22
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    5. AEP22,
    Dec 13, 2012 5:08 PM   in reply to conroy
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    Start of Group in Pass Through Mode

    layer with 50% neutral grey in Overlay mode

    layer with image of tree, rest invisible

    end of group

     

    layer of field

     

    You see a tree in a field.

     

    Now change the mode OF THE GROUP to Normal. Field disappears and is replaced by solid grey.

     
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  • conroy
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    6. conroy,
    Dec 13, 2012 5:19 PM   in reply to AEP22
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    OK, you didn't mention more than the gray layer being inside the group. The result is still correct. Take the layers out of the group and make only these layers visible. You get a tree surrounded by gray. That's the same as is being evaluated inside the Normal group, and it's then Normal-blended with the field layer below the group.

     
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  • AEP22
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    7. AEP22,
    Dec 13, 2012 5:26 PM   in reply to conroy
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    So what you are telling me is that a 50% grey overlay layer inside a NORMAL group turns off all the layers below the group . Very weird.

     
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  • conroy
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    8. conroy,
    Dec 13, 2012 5:34 PM   in reply to AEP22
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    No, I'm not telling you that.

     

    You said that inside the Normal group is a neutral gray Overlay layer above a layer containing a tree surrounded by absolute transparency. When the content of the group is evaluated, the gray will be blended with absolute transparency to produce the same gray, and the result will be a tree surrounded by gray. That is then Normal-blended with the field layer below the group, which results in the field layer being obscured.

     
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  • AEP22
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    9. AEP22,
    Dec 13, 2012 5:41 PM   in reply to conroy
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    OK, I get it and understand it. Thanks for your input.

     
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  • conroy
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    10. conroy,
    Dec 13, 2012 6:17 PM   in reply to AEP22
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    Clip the Overlay layer to the tree layer if you want it to affect only the tree pixels.

     

    Screen-shot-2012-12-14-at-02.14.43.png

     
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  • R_Kelly
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    11. R_Kelly,
    Dec 13, 2012 6:19 PM   in reply to AEP22
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    Another way of saying that the Pass Through blending on layer groups tells photoshop to honor the individual blend modes of each layer in the group.

    But if you set the blending mode of the layer group to something else such as Normal, then photoshop applies that blending mode (normal in your case)

    to all the layers in the group.

     
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  • conroy
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    12. conroy,
    Dec 13, 2012 6:31 PM   in reply to R_Kelly
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    R_Kelly wrote:

     

    Another way of saying that the Pass Through blending on layer groups tells photoshop to honor the individual blend modes of each layer in the group.

    But if you set the blending mode of the layer group to something else such as Normal, then photoshop applies that blending mode (normal in your case)

    to all the layers in the group.

     

    No, I disagree. When a group's blending mode is other than Pass Through, each layer except for the bottom layer in the group still has its own blending mode honoured. The group's content will be evaluated as if its layers were being merged then that will be blended with layers below the group, according to the group's blending mode.

     
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  • R_Kelly
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    13. R_Kelly,
    Dec 13, 2012 6:43 PM   in reply to conroy
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    You may be right, but here's the expanation from adobe:

     

     

    Specify a blending mode for a layer or group

    A layer’s blending mode determines how its pixels blend with underlying pixels in the image. You can create a variety of special effects using blending modes.

    By default, the blending mode of a layer group is Pass Through, which means that the group has no blending properties of its own. When you choose a different blending mode for a group, you effectively change the order in which the image components are put together. All of the layers in the group are put together first. The composite group is then treated as a single image and blended with the rest of the image using the selected blending mode. Thus, if you choose a blending mode other than Pass Through for the group, none of the adjustment layers or layer blending modes inside the group will apply to layers outside the group.

     
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  • conroy
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    14. conroy,
    Dec 13, 2012 6:49 PM   in reply to R_Kelly
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    The statement agrees with me. When a group isn't Pass Through then the layers inside it are first evaluated to a single image (using the layers' own blending modes) then that image is blended with whatever is below the group (using the group blending mode.)

     
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  • R_Kelly
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    15. R_Kelly,
    Dec 13, 2012 6:54 PM   in reply to conroy
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    Well you could have explained that instead of saying AEP22 didn't understand what you were saying, heck i couldn't even understand your explanation.

     
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  • conroy
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    16. conroy,
    Dec 13, 2012 7:10 PM   in reply to R_Kelly
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    R_Kelly wrote:

     

    heck i couldn't even understand your explanation.

     

    I tried to help the OP. So sorry I couldn't please you.

     
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  • R_Kelly
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    17. R_Kelly,
    Dec 13, 2012 7:49 PM   in reply to conroy
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    Conroy,

     

    I was probably out of line, so i hope you accept my apologies.

     

    R_Kelly

     
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  • conroy
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    18. conroy,
    Dec 14, 2012 4:42 AM   in reply to R_Kelly
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    It's no big deal. Don't worry about it.

     
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