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Dec 31, 2012 5:14 AM

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 5:14 AM   in reply to Community Help

    How can I see the metadata colorspace for RAW photos in Lightroom 4.3?

    As described above on this page I selected all the different premade metadata sets in the Library module. But none of them shows the metadata colorspace (sRGB or Adobe RGB) for my Nikon D800 RAW photos.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 5:34 AM   in reply to Van-Paul

    Lightroom does not show a metadata field "colorspace".

     

    Inside of Lightroom, the photos are neither sRGB nor Adobe RGB, but rather a proprietary MelissaRGB.

     

    When you export a photo, you have the option of choosing a color space for the exported photo.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 6:36 AM   in reply to dj_paige

    Hi dj_paige,

     

    "I know that Raw photo files generally don’t have embedded color profiles. For raw files, the Develop module assumes a wide color space based on the color values of the ProPhoto RGB color space. ProPhoto RGB encompasses most colors that cameras can record." See About color management in Lightroom

     

    But I want to know in which colorspace the original RAW photo was taken, just as I can see the metadata focal length, aperture, shutter and ISO value.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 7:15 AM   in reply to Van-Paul

    Raw images are not taken in a color space. Technically they are black and white data until they are rendered by a Raw converter.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 7:29 AM   in reply to Rikk Flohr

    Hi Rikk Flohr,

     

    In the Shooting menu of my Nikon D800 I can set Color space to: sRGB or Adobe RGB.

    So I want Lightroom to show me this metadata.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 7:30 AM   in reply to Van-Paul

    In the Shooting menu of my Nikon D800 I can set Color space to: sRGB of Adobe RGB.

    So I want Lightroom to show me this metadata.

    The color space setting in your camera applies to JPGs only; it does not apply to RAW

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 7:36 AM   in reply to Van-Paul

    Only applies to your JPEG Thumbnails - not your Raw files...

    Or if you only shoot JPEG...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 8:06 AM   in reply to Rikk Flohr

    Thanks for helping, but:

     

    The Dutch Nikon D800 usermanual on page 274 says: JPG files made in the color space Adobe RGB are DFC-compliant.

     

    And in the book "Mastering the Nikon D800 by Darrel Young" on page 125 - 126 is written: "If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB....." and "Even with a JPEG's limited color capacity, the colors in the JPEG represent a broader range of color when you use Adobe RGB".

     

    Conclusion:

    - For RAW I can use: Adobe RGB or sRGB

    - For JPEG I can use: Adobe RGB or sRGB

     

    But my simple question is: I want that Lightroom shows me the original color space metadata.

    Is there a Adobe professional available that can answer my question?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 8:16 AM   in reply to Van-Paul

    The reason Darrel recommend shooting in Adobe RGB while shooting Raw is so that your JPEG thumbnail embedded in the Raw file looks more like a Raw file and less like a JPEG. Many pros do this and also turn down the contrast on the JPEG preview as well. It gives them a ball-park view of the Raw file before you actually run it through a Raw converter. It has nothing to do with the Raw file and only applies to the JPEG thumbnail.

     

    You can specify Adobe RGB and sRGB for either but it does nothing to your Raw file.

     

    Lightroom cannot show something that doesn't exist - ie. the Color Space of a Raw file.

     

    Lastly, this is a user-to-user forum and an official answer from Adobe Employees is unlikely.  Regardless, no matter how many times you ask the question, the answer will be the same.

     

    If you want to post to the Official (Bug and Feature Request forum) it is here: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/products/photoshop_fami ly_photoshop_lightroom

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 8:36 AM   in reply to Rikk Flohr

    So to summarize Rikk's very thorough answer, you don't need this information for RAW photos, and LR won't show it to you, and it doesn't exist anyway.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 10:35 AM   in reply to Van-Paul

    Van-Paul wrote:

     

    In the Shooting menu of my Nikon D800 I can set Color space to: sRGB or Adobe RGB.

    So I want Lightroom to show me this metadata.

    Lightroom only shows the exif metadata that Adobe chose to support - colorspace did not make the cut.

     

    The only way to see this metadata in Lightroom is with the help of a plugin, e.g.

     

    ExifMeta

     

    Reminder: colorspace chosen in camera does not affect raw data nor Lightroom's rendering of it (it is stored in the raw file, and is critical to proper interpretation of color in the jpeg preview which is embedded in the raw file, but does not affect raw photo processing).

     

    Rob

     
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  • Victoria Bampton
    5,302 posts
    Apr 1, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 11:12 AM   in reply to Van-Paul

    Van-Paul wrote:

     

    Is there a Adobe professional available that can answer my question?

     

    If it makes you feel better, I'll answer with an orange Adobe Professional badge and confirm that the answers Rikk and Paige have given you spot on.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2012 12:01 PM   in reply to Van-Paul

    Van-Paul wrote:

     

    in the book "Mastering the Nikon D800 by Darrel Young" on page 125 - 126 is written: "If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB....."

     

    Conclusion:

    - For RAW I can use: Adobe RGB or sRGB

     

    This statement is misleading, in my opinion. Consider consulting author and suggest improved wording.

     

    Although colorspace *does* affect the raw file - i.e. the jpeg preview(s) in it, it does not affect the raw data, and it is ignored in Lightroom (except potentially for a brief moment when displaying the embedded preview from the raw file, before it is supplanted by Lr's rendering of the raw data - but it is probably even ignored then as well - dunno), and it is ignored in other raw data processors as well, for the most part (except potentially, like Lightroom, when displaying the embedded previews...).

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 1, 2013 7:33 AM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Happy New Year and thanks for all the answers!

     

    Nevertheless, I want to hear from a Nikon and Adobe expert how color space, JPEG and RAW interact.

    So I will mail them the questions below:

     

    Questions for Nikon and Adobe:

    1. Which influencehas has - in Nikon D800 shooting menu selected - color space (Adobe RGB or sRGB) on a:
      - NEF (RAW) 14-bit mode Lossless compressed photo and thumbnail? "Does color space affect RAW data?".
      JPEG 8-bit mode photo and thumbnail?
    2. Is the selected color space saved in the JPEG/RAW metadata so a program like Nikkon Capture NX 2 or Adobe Lightroom 4.3 can show this to me?
    3. If you have suggestions or better questions: post it.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 1, 2013 7:59 AM   in reply to Van-Paul
    If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB

    This is pure and utter nonsense. As the others have told you repeatedly: a raw file has no color space. It is opened into one in the raw converter. The camera setting is totally and completely irrelevant.

     

    There is no need for any Nikon or Adobe "expert" to comment on this. This is simply how it works, end of story. Period. But unfortunately many people fail to understand this, so the misunderstanding gets propagated.

     

    The camera jpeg, however, is fully processed in the camera and that's a completely different story.

     

    That said, it could of course happen that Nikon put something in the metadata so that Capture NX would open it into the "user-chosen" space. But that would be the only reason for it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 1, 2013 3:33 PM   in reply to Van-Paul

    Van-Paul wrote:

     

    I want to hear from a Nikon and Adobe expert

    Good luck with that.

     

    Warning: if you do get an answer from the company rep(s), it probably won't be from an "expert" - it will probably come from somebody who doesn't understand it as well as those in this forum who've already commented.

     

    Maybe time to accept that user's-manual and other book writers don't always get it quite right...

     

    PS - I am 100% confident about my understanding of it, despite not having a badge by my name...

     

    Happy N'Year,

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 2:23 AM   in reply to Rob Cole

    If the people of Nikon and Adobe have the same helpful attitude as the people on this forum I think they seriously answer my question.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 2:51 AM   in reply to Van-Paul

    I suppose I should just let this pass, as the question has been answered several times over already, and there's really nothing to add.

     

    But I just can't resist: The.concept.of.color.space.does.not.apply.to.a.raw.file. How many times should I repeat that? Because I can keep this up for a long time.

     

    When you're ready to find out how a raw workflow in Lightroom really works, come back, instead of chasing this red herring.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 4:14 AM   in reply to Van-Paul

    I hope you can shake a little sense into Nikon. Their D300 manual makes no distinction whatsoever between settings that affect jpegs (almost all of them) and those that affect raw data too (essentially just the basic exposure settings). - very confusing to a raw newb.

     

    Please report what they say if you get a response.

     

    Thanks,

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 5:08 AM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    Their D300 manual makes no distinction

     

    I suspect that's because they want all Nikon shooters to use Capture NX - or rather are in denial that anyone should choose not to - so they probably put those parameters into the NEF metadata, and Capture NX can pick it up from there. Integrated workflow and all that....

     

    To everybody else, that's just another example of "don't think, let us do the thinking for you". And as a result, people never learn how the stuff really works.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 5:45 AM   in reply to Community Help

    Some camera models change their filename pattern as a prompt, whenever the camera is set to AdobeRGB instead of sRGB.

     

    For example, they may show the first character of your JPGs as an underscore - Pentax, for instance, change IMGPxxxxxx.jpg to _IGPxxxxxx.jpg

     

    Because these cameras may sometimes be set to Raw+JPG (and the main filename still needs to match) you see the same change in Raw filenames also.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 6:21 AM   in reply to richardplondon

    Ah, that's right, same with Nikon: DSC_xxx vs _DSCxxx.

     

    So if the OP really needs to know what his camera was set to (for some other reason than whether it has any effect whatsoever on the raw file...), it's in the original file name.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 12:23 PM   in reply to twenty_one

    twenty_one wrote:

     

    I suspect that's because they want all Nikon shooters to use Capture NX...

    Good point. - if one uses NX2 or ViewNX to process, then (theoretically and for the most part), one does not need to concern oneself with such details...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 12:31 PM   in reply to twenty_one

    twenty_one wrote:

     

    So if the OP really needs to know what his camera was set to (for some other reason than whether it has any effect whatsoever on the raw file...), it's in the original file name.

    The problem with this, obviously, is that unless one uses the original filename verbatim when renaming upon import from card, such information will be lost, since the tokens available for renaming otherwise exclude such information...

     

    I'm actually in agreement with the general request: support 100% of exif-metadata in Lightroom, natively, but even so, it is definitely worthwhile understanding the scope of influence of in-camera colorspace...

     

    If in-camera colorspace were available as a renaming token, I certainly would not use it.

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 5, 2013 4:44 AM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Nikon's anwwer is here

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 5, 2013 4:51 AM   in reply to Van-Paul

    There is a saying that there are none so blind as those who will not see

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 2, 2013 12:53 AM   in reply to Community Help

    LR 4.4RC shows ISO and shutter speed used in the DNG file from my Leica M Monochrom but the aperture space is blank. Why is LR not reading this information?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 18, 2013 12:45 PM   in reply to Community Help

    When I use my full frame D600 I know that when the photo metadata shown in Lightroom reads 100mm, the focal length used for the photo was 100mm.

     

    But sometimes I use my D300 with an 18-200mm DX lens.  When the photo metadata in LR for the D300/18-200mm shows a focal length of 100mm, is that the focal length of the lens used for the shot with or without the 1.5 factor correction for the DX lens??  That is, is the effective 35mm equivalent focal length 100mm or 150mm in this case??  Thanks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 18, 2013 1:09 PM   in reply to slmathison@aol.com

    The easy answer is to shoot an image with your D300 and the 18-200mm lens at 18mm, and then see what Lightroom displays.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 19, 2013 8:48 AM   in reply to dj_paige

    Good suggestion.  I shot images using the D300 and the 18-200mm lens at settings of 18mm and 200mm.  In Lightroom the metadata showed 18 and 200mm.  So Lightroom does NOT show the 35mm equivalent focal lengths which would be 1.5 times the actual focal length.  Thanks !!

     
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