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CS5.5 'Tone Ramping'?

Jan 3, 2013 5:34 PM

Hi,

 

I have read that such a thing can be done in regards to changes in exposure where there is no automation from the camera (ie gradual adjustment from an auto iris when shooting day to evening like a time lapse).

 

Can this be done, if so how would you go about it? Cheers

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2013 6:16 PM   in reply to MontyPython

    Explain a bit more about what you are wanting to do or to fix.

     

    You can keyframe certain effects that maybe helpful.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 4, 2013 11:14 AM   in reply to MontyPython

    You stand by the camera and make changes as needed.  Post correction won't always help an improperly exposed image.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 4, 2013 4:58 PM   in reply to MontyPython

    Why would Auto be smoother than manual??

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 4, 2013 5:54 PM   in reply to MontyPython

    In my own personal experince manual mode is generally your best option. Auto mode will generally always cause a "flicker". I think that keyframming CC effects is going to be your only option. What I generally attempt to do is set my exposure as hot as I can get it during the day without loss of details (so  the picture isn't blown out) that way when night falls you still have a somewhat well exposed shot to deal with.

    (Unless the light change is just insane due to no outdoor lighting being around in the area you're at) Then you keyframe and bring the exposure up or down VERY gradually as needed.

     

    However I'm not a expert or very experienced at timelapse content either since I haven't ever really done them more than a few times myself, so someone else here is likely to be able to offer better advice.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 4, 2013 5:40 PM   in reply to MontyPython

    If I change the ISO as its getting darker you will see the exposure jump.

     

    The point is to keep the frame properly exposed throughout.  The changes don't cause exposure jumps, they prevent them because every frame will be properly exposed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 5, 2013 8:18 PM   in reply to MontyPython

    He answered you correctly  in post 2.

     

    You have to manually expose the images if the camera wont do it for you.

     

    If you dont have a manual iris..use a rotating Polariser maybe.

     

    Ideal though  is ....use the right tool for the job.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 5, 2013 9:00 PM   in reply to shooternz

    lots to read about at this site..good place to start...

     

    http://timelapse.theusner.eu/

     

    maybe find timer to work with your camera. dont know if c300 has ability for shutter release cable, you have to google whats available for your camera

     

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/164271-REG/Canon_2477A002_Timer_ Remote_Controller_TC_80N3.html

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 6, 2013 12:25 AM   in reply to MontyPython

    And how can I make these changes when shooting a time lapse?? If I change the ISO as its getting darker you will see the exposure jump.

     

    You clearly know nothing about the C300, which is nothing like a DSLR or AF102.

     

     

    and you sir...clearly have no idea how to use a professional camera with lenses that have an iris.

     

    May I  educate you on the matter. 

     

    ISO is not how exposure is controlled for timelapse or generally.

     

    The iris one method and what I previously suggested is another in your case... where you said ...

     

    which does not have any automatic ISO or iris faciltiy

     

     

    and for your additional information...."Tone Ramping" despite what you read...is a meaninless non term in this context.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 6, 2013 10:24 AM   in reply to MontyPython
    So please advise HOW I do this as asked on the original question??

     

    I recommend consulting your camera manual on the proper methods of changing ISO and Aperture.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 6, 2013 11:51 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Monty, check out this page on the same webpage link given earlier...

    http://timelapse.theusner.eu/step-by-step.html

     

    forget the dslr stuff, you'll have to do it manually...but look at the chart re: exposure in general for night, dawn, sunset etc...

     

    One thing about the light changing over time... you don't wanna really keep compensating all the time or else as it gets darker you will actually see it stay the same ( cause you're compensating for it getting darker ). You sorta WANT to let it get darker so show the light changing. But you don't want to lose your resolution etc either ( too much noise, too dark to even see differentiation between building and now darker 'sky' etc )... sooooo, although I only did this type thing with a still camera in the past.... my advice is you pick out a spot in your scene that is roughly gonna stay close to zone 5 in a grayscale... probably some part of building a little ways off from a streetlight or something ?... this is similar to using a gray card and spot meter to read it..but you have to guess where that gray card is in your scene...

     

    Since you have to do this manually it would help if you really DO have a spot meter and 3deg or tight narrow area to read the exposure...

     

    As it gets dark at first you can probably leave it get darker... is normal looking...and at some point you decide to open iris 1/4 stop or so to try and keep that " tone " you chose as your gray card close to the start of your series of shots.... then after another period of time ( dont know how fast sun sets where you are ).. open another 1/4 stop...and just keep doing that throughout.

     

    I would start at a high ISO to begin with so you don't have to change it at night...say around 1000 iso or so...( your camera probably has good sensitivity at night noise wise )...  So you start with a higher f stop and gradually open up to keep your gray tone area sorta close to where you want it...

     

    Then the color ( gets more blue as night happens ) will also help you let it look " real " ... plus the color of lights in buildings and streetlights will add to that realistic look of it getting dark ( day to night ) etc...

     

    I had to do that manually using the red camera during a test last year... and started at 1000 iso and it worked out okay at night with some streetlighs, car headlights and so on at the end of the series of takes.

     

    good luck and if its for a client do a test first ...hehe... and bring stuff to drink, eat and something to sit on.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 6, 2013 12:07 PM   in reply to able123

    Thats pretty good advice to the O.P,  Rod.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 6, 2013 12:13 PM   in reply to shooternz

    thanks shooternz...

     

    I just thought of more, but its kinda tricky...

     

    most movie cameras have matte boxes on rails for filters...and you can put filters in several 'slots' of the matte box...and you can raise or lower those filters as needed ...

     

    I've worked on jobs ( sunsets, sunrise etc ) where the camera operator ( dp advising ) used stuff like " nd gradation " filters to sorta keep bright sky down in order to use the F stop for the main stuff being filmed... in other words, with the gradation filter manually raised and lowered in matte box you sorta keep the sky from blowing out at the beginning of the series of shots or the one shot you're trying to get...for me this experience has been just one shot.. not a series...time lapse..just one shot.

     

    But that would work for timelapse too.. so  you start with your gray scale GUESS for the overall time ...and use the gradation filter to keep the sky from blowing out at the beginning... and raise it slowly as it gets darker...and eventually remove it totally...I dont think you'd "see" it in the final product if done little by little....

     

    that stuff is really hard to do well... especially manually cause you have to actually BE THERE and do stuff instead of watching football and enjoying BEER THIRTY ! YIPEE !

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 6, 2013 12:41 PM   in reply to able123

    There's one more issue re: color and night stuff that is kinda real..but is only dealt with in big budget stuff...so this is probably a stupid thing to mention, but what the heck.

     

    Most movies have the crew and money and equipment ( man lifts and cranes and all that stuff ) to actually " pre light " some scenes...and in part this is color correction. I've been on jobs where all the street lights for several city blocks get " corrected" with color gels ..usually a couple days before the 'shoot' day / night .

     

    For example, sodium vapor lamps ( street lights etc ) can be color corrected with rosco or lee stuff... but you have to get up there in a manlift or crane and take the head off and put gel into it and put head back...then you have to take gel OUT after shoot is over...yet another day of people working on that stuff. It's very expensive to do this kinda thing. But it is done pretty often in movie land believe it or not.

     

    That way you dont end up with really 'green' people in the shot and so on....you know, flourescents, sodium vapor, 32k stuff in buildings, all that stuff is color... and in most cases it is corrected if possible.  HOWEVER, it is also true that sometimes it just gets left alone cause it's okay to let that stuff turn into what it is.... and looks fine... ( you can't color correct all the lights of the manhattan skyline ).  BUT you CAN guess what it's gonna BE when it gets dark...and color correct at the beginning at the lens....

     

    So that's another issue, but this probably is not a good place to talk about that until the initial solution of exposure etc is happy.

     

    just rambling on...

    GO RAVENS !

     

    PS... to the poster.... Monty... shoot a color scale and grayscale at head of your series... so you know where to put your white balance in post !

     
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