Skip navigation
polarhki
Currently Being Moderated

Photoshop Elements 11 Organizer: Full screen view of lower quality than with PSE 10 and before?!

Jan 19, 2013 12:23 PM

Tags: #organizer #low_quality #full_screen_mode #photoshop_elements_11 #pse11

Upgrading from PSE 10 to 11, I noticed that when I watch my images with the organizer in PSE 11 in full screen view mode (F11), while the images load faster, they are shown in a lower quality than in PSE 10 or any other version of PSE that I owned before. In PSE 11, after the initial viewing in full screen (in the "fit screen" mode), when I click with the mouse on an image to display the "100%" view, there is a delay and the program says "Loading...", after which the 100% view in the full screen mode appears. When I then click another time with the mouse on the image to get back to "fit screen" mode, I get an image of better quality than during the initial view!

 

So it seems like the program first gives a faster, but lower quality view of the image in full screen mode, and only after the user requests a 100% view, it actually loads the image with full detail, which is then preserved when going back to the "fit screen" view. This is a serious issue for me, because I also use PSE organizer to present my pictures to other people, and I don't want to show them some lower quality versions of my images, but the full quality ones, without having to first choose "100% view" and then go back to "fit screen".

 

How can I make the PSE 11 organizer give me a full-quality full screen image right away, as this used to be the case in PSE10 and before?

(I have both versions, PSE 11 and PSE 10, now on the same computer and tested this to confirm that the PSE 11 initial full screen view is of lower quality than the PSE 10 one. Also in PSE 10, there is practically no delay for displaying the "100%" view afterwards, indicating that the image was loaded with full detail right away.)

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 24, 2013 9:55 PM   in reply to polarhki

    Hi...

     

    A few questions on this issue-

     

    What happens if you launch Full Screen View and then wait for a second or two so that the first image loads completely (in high resolution) and then start navigating using say arrow keys. Does the Loading symbol still comes?

    What format of file are you viewing in FSV and what is the average size?

     

    Does the same issue happen when you start FSV using the "Slideshow" button present on the bottom action panel?

     

    Thanks

    Andaleeb

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 12:50 PM   in reply to polarhki

    polarhki has continued this discussion here:

    http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76799

     

    You can share your comments here and see if the solution in post #14 (with the hidden prefs in Elements+) may be good for you.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 21, 2013 5:00 PM   in reply to polarhki

    Just found this thread & totally agree with Polarhki - I noticed the fullscreen preview wasn't so good & was beginning to think it was my eyesight that was the problem!

     

    To me, being able to see my photos fullscreen in the best possible quality is the most important feature of Elements (surely the whole point of a fullscreen preview?) & I don't want to open every picture up in the editor just to see it at it's best. I only use Elements to organise my files, I use CS6 for editing them.

     

    Due to this latest downgrade and the fact that you can no longer open the F11 preview on a separate monitor (as you could with previous versions), I find I'm using Elements very rarely these days.

     

    I'm tempted to uninstall PSE11 & go back to PSE10 although I don't know if the catalogue would still work or if you can convert it back to an earlier version.

     

    It really annoys me when companies do this - bring out a newer version that has features missing from previous versions.

     

    I guess it's very unlikely Adobe will take onboard our comments - as with most large companies they'll carry on regardless, safe in the knowledge that they know what we want better than we do

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 22, 2013 12:28 AM   in reply to Les_Cornwell

    Les_Cornwell wrote:

    .

    To me, being able to see my photos fullscreen in the best possible quality is the most important feature of Elements (surely the whole point of a fullscreen preview?) & I don't want to open every picture up in the editor just to see it at it's best. I only use Elements to organise my files, I use CS6 for editing them.

     

    You don't need to open the editor, as already mentionned several times in this thread. You only need two clicks on the image : the first one to go to 100% view, the second to get back to full window view. What is shown then is exactly what you got in previous versions (two clicks, two seconds).

    In my experience, PSE11 is much quicker than previous versions in its display even with raw files.

    There are two reasons to prefer the bicubic sharper algorithm :

    - providing a 'snappier' image in F11 used as a slideshow. That's mainly valid for showing on small displays or laptops. On my 1920x1200 24" calibrated screen, I don't really need it, but I understand that it should be offered, at least as an option.

    - Evaluating the detail quality (pixel peeping) of images. If you are serious about quality, you judge at 100% view without any downsizing and you can tell the difference between sharpening levels and detail quality. The problem is still harder when you are mostly working on raw files where you have several steps of sharpening in the ACR dialog and possibly in the editor depending on your output choice.

     

    I guess it's very unlikely Adobe will take onboard our comments - as with most large companies they'll carry on regardless, safe in the knowledge that they know what we want better than we do

     

    Well, maybe you know better that me what I want But since we are at guesses, I think if I were Adobe, I would take that request seriously... time will tell.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 22, 2013 4:31 PM   in reply to MichelBParis

    I appreciate you can click twice to get the sharper version but it is a pain if you want to look through a set of pictures, having to press the L or R arrow key then mouse click twice.

     

    As to only being valid on smaller displays - I use a 20" non-widescreen Dell Ultrasharp monitor & the difference is quite noticeable.

     

    I just cannot see the point of making images appear less sharp on screen when surely the whole point is to view out photographs at their best?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 23, 2013 1:01 AM   in reply to Les_Cornwell

    Les_Cornwell wrote:

    I just cannot see the point of making images appear less sharp on screen when surely the whole point is to view out photographs at their best?

    That's a big point. Not a technical point, I would say an artistic point. We do agree that the difference in the display is the sharpening, not the detail level. So you prefer photographs to be displayed sharper to be at their best. Many film oldtimers consider that level of sharpening as an obvious defect typical of digital images. No one is right, no one is wrong. That's why I agree that there should be an option about the downsizing and sharpening method.

    It has been mentionned in this discussion that viewing photos at their best when downsized on a display implies other much more important factors :

    - screen size and resolution

    - calibration and gamut

    - angle of view (how many viewers ?, at which distance ?)

    - lighting of the viewing room...

     

    So, while I do agree that everyone should be able to get the 'quality' of sharpening they prefer, I strongly suggest to think about the conditions of the viewing session to optimize the output.

    I do maintain that if what you want is a organizing session for yourself to sort pictures by pixel peeping, the present PSE11 F11 view is adequate.

     

    If what you want is to create a kind of 'instant slideshow' for showing 'at its best' to several persons, you should prepare albums or folders with resizing and sharpening optimized to the output display so that you get better results than with PSE11... or any previous version.

    You have the choice to export your selected files or to use the 'process multiple files' feature : then I strongly recommend to test if the default export sharpening option is ok for you (it's very strong).

    For the very best results, I would use free external tools like FastStone photo resizer which offer more advanced resizing and sharpening algorithms for batch edition. That would be true even if Adobe restored the old 'bicubic sharper' solution.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 25, 2013 3:47 AM   in reply to MichelBParis

    I just like my images to be displayed, not sharper than they should be, but as sharp as they should be which is how I believe they have always been displayed in previous versions of Elements. I feel that in an attempt to make the F11 preview quicker, PSE11 creates a less sharp almost blurry image (which is more or less what Bobby from Tech Support has suggested above).

     

    If I want to look through a set of pictures I've just taken or show them to a friend or family member, why should I have to "prepare albums or folders with resizing and sharpening' just to show my pictures to someone or view them myself? The alternative of course is to have to double-click each photo every time or explain that "No, I do still take sharp photos, it's just that Elements makes them look blurred by default!"

     

    As that's the way previous versions have worked, Adobe should have left as is & given us the option to change to the new method if we want to, not just enforced it. And along with disabling dual monitor support it's instantly removed for me at least, the two most important functions.

     

    PS. How does one escalate an issue to Adobe staff?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 25, 2013 12:44 PM   in reply to Les_Cornwell

    Myself I will not so call upgrade from 10 just over this issue. Give us the choice for viewing?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 25, 2013 3:02 PM   in reply to seamutt33

    I certainly wont bother with any more Elements upgrades until this issue is resolved AND  dual monitor support is restored.

     

    Unfortunately I don't think I can revert my catalogue from PSE11 back to PSE9. If it was possible, I would go back to using PSE 9 and uninstall PSE11.

     

    It would be nice if when releasing an new version of Elements, Adobe told customers what features they would be removing as well as telling us about any new ones, or better still, dont remove the features in the first place!

     

    Shame we can't email Adobe about these omissions but I cant see how to do it - perhaps they dont want to listen

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 12, 2013 10:28 AM   in reply to Les_Cornwell

    Tried to raise this issue (and removal of dual monitor support) via 'chat' today without much success; other than a 'that's how it is supposed to be response' regarding fullscreen preview and 'dual monitor setup is not reccomended'.

     

    I did point out that whichever way you look at it, both issues I raised worked fine with PS9 but don't with PSE11 and at least got agrrement to escalate to 2nd line support.

     

    I just find it so frustrating when large companies decide to change a product without informing customers and then attempt to explain the change as 'that's how the product is supposed to perform'. in other words, "We've changed it, if you don't like it tough, most people won't bother complaining".

     

    Time to move on from Elements and look elsewhere. What's so annoying is that even programs like Faststone viewer let you adjust how you like your images to look when you view them and that program is free! Surely as a paid for program, elements could at least give customers a choice??

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 4, 2013 8:03 AM   in reply to Les_Cornwell

    Never heard back from 2nd line support not that I'm surprised.

     

    So basically, we've changed it, that's how it is now, if you don't like it, tough.

     

    Won't be bothering with Elements any more

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 31, 2013 1:38 AM   in reply to polarhki

    I still haven't heard from Adobe 2nd line support and dont expect to.

     

    I wish I could email Adobe about this but there doesn't seem to be a facility to do so & I doubt they would take any notice either.

     

    I just cannot work with the organiser as it is & dont use the editor (use CS6 for editing) so think I will reinstall PSE9, update a copy of the old catalogue I had for PSE9 & just use that. I may keep the PSE11 catalogue updated too just in case a future version of Elements corrects the preview issue & reinstates dual monitor support, but I wont be buying it before installing a trial next time!

     

    What with making CS subscription only in future too, Adobe sure know how to get rid of customers!

     

    EDIT:  PSE9 now installed, catalogue updated. Much nicer - no more burred images & dual screen support again   Will be certain to try out trial version before I 'upgrade' to later version again

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 24, 2013 12:59 AM   in reply to Les_Cornwell

    Since this discussion, I've now got Lightroom via the 'Creative Cloud Plan for Photographers' and unfortunately have encountered exactly the same problem/'feature' in the Library mode. Also, with LR, it seems going to 100% & then back to fill screen doesn't have any effect so in a way even more of a problem than with Elements.

     

    Needless to say, I never heard back from Adobe 2nd line support.

     

    I wonder if this issue has been addressed in Elements 12 announced today? And has Dual -monitor support been reinstated? Anyone from Adobe care to comment?

     

    I can only hope that when I get a new monitor (looking to replace my 20" 1600 x 1200 with a 24") that the problem will either go or appear less apparent as it seems not many other people have a problem with full screen preview quality...

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 24, 2013 5:15 AM   in reply to Les_Cornwell

    Les_Cornwell a écrit:

     

    EDIT:  PSE9 now installed, catalogue updated. Much nicer - no more burred images & dual screen support again   Will be certain to try out trial version before I 'upgrade' to later version again

    Do you still intend to test the PSE12 trial ?

    I did, and I am perfectly happy with the sharpness level on my 24" 1920 x 1200 display, but as you know, I don't like oversharpened displays. There is no option to select the downsizing method according to one's taste.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 24, 2013 5:36 AM   in reply to MichelBParis

    Hi Michel

     

    Not sure yet - as I now have Lightroom & notice the same behaviour with that too, I doubt things will be any different with PSE12.

     

    I'm looking to get a new monitor soon, a 24" too, either 1920 x 1200 or 1920 x 1080 resolution so may wait until I get that & see how things are.

     

    I guess judging by the fact that only me & 'Polarkhi' have complained about it, it's not to much of a problem for anyone else or of course we just have dodgy eyesight   It's all subjective I suppose

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2013 5:11 AM   in reply to polarhki

    polarhki wrote:

    So maybe the fact that not many other people complain may mean that a) they are a bit apathic,

    ... or more artistically educated

     

     

    So maybe the fact that not many other people complain may mean that a) .........., or b) most others have mid-level cameras but view their images on large, high resolution screens. ;-)

     

     

    Even low-level cameras have now much higher resolution (ca 12 mpix) compared to high resolution displays (ca 2 mpix). The influence of the kind of camera is not only negligible, it's totally absent. The influence of the resolution of the display, on the contrary is very important.  Then, the dowsizing and resharpening algorithms are also important as you have seen. The downsizing algorithm is able to keep more or less detail (bicubic versus Lanczos...) which you'll see by careful examination of details and textures. The sharpening level is what makes the real difference when seeing a series of pictures in a slideshow.

     

     

    In any case, as the Bicubic sharper algorithm is already used in the PS11 program and was the standard in all previous versions, I think it is not too much asked from Adobe to make at least an option for the user here, and this should be very easy to implement. Unfortunately, with PS12 (checked the trial), the issue seems to be exactly the same, as that program seems to be overall almost the same as PS11 (plus some new online features and minor enhancements, but also some things lost due to 64-bit architecture move).

    Yes, I agree it should be very easy to implement. But think about it : how many PSE users use the Organizer ? (10% ?) How many use the F11 full screen preview for improvised slideshows ? (less than 1 %), How many of those feel like you, how many like me ?

     

    Edit :

    Considering that there is a tendency for PSE users to use high res displays (1080 x 720 and more) at home and very limited res with notebooks, I think that automatically adapting the sharpening algorithm to the display resolution would be a satisfactory solution.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 22, 2014 12:10 PM   in reply to MichelBParis

    MichelBParis schrieb:

    Yes, I agree it should be very easy to implement. But think about it : how many PSE users use the Organizer ? (10% ?) How many use the F11 full screen preview for improvised slideshows ? (less than 1 %), How many of those feel like you, how many like me ?
    I am quite disappointed by that kind of rationale. I am one of those PSE users

    - who is using extensively the PSE Organizer (and who is "condemned" to continue to use it because I spent thousands of hours organizing my 70'000 photo filers with the PSE Organizer) and its Full Screen View support
    - who is using less and less the PSE Editor because of its user-unfriendly outdated 20th-century user-interface. Instead, I use more and more the admirable NIK/Google filters/plugins.

    I am reallly outraged that some otherwise excellent PSE forum-contributor uses such kind of arguments to justify regresses of the PSE quality.  And by the way, at least on my 6-year old PC, PSE V10 Fullscreenview is (in contrast to PSE V8 Fullscreenview) quite efficient...its difficult for me to understand why the quality of PSE V10 Fullscreenview had to be sacrificied for performance reasons. Hoping that follow-on PSE Versions have reinstated or will re-instate (at least as a convenient-to-use user-option/preference) the quality of Full Screen View.

    A PSE V10 user who will love to migrate to a follow-on PSE Versions without quality sacrifices.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 22, 2014 12:47 PM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    Robert Eckerlin wrote:

     

    MichelBParis schrieb:

    Yes, I agree it should be very easy to implement. But think about it : how many PSE users use the Organizer ? (10% ?) How many use the F11 full screen preview for improvised slideshows ? (less than 1 %), How many of those feel like you, how many like me ?
    I am quite disappointed by that kind of rationale.

    That rationale is disappointing. Sure. But do you contest the facts ?

     

     

    Robert Eckerlin wrote:

    I am reallly outraged that some otherwise excellent PSE forum-contributor uses such kind of arguments to justify regresses of the PSE quality.

    Robert,

    How can you tell that I 'justify regresses' ? Who should be outraged ?

     

    Back to your request : we left that discussion just after we discovered that the PSE12 version was unchanged on that respect. As far as I know, we did not get feedback from Adobe : we do not know if they did not consider your request a valid one, or simply if they did not 'prioritize' it. That leaves still a small hope for the next version.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 22, 2014 1:18 PM   in reply to MichelBParis

    Unfortunately, I think it's very unlikely Adobe will do anything about this issue.

     

    What I find annoying is that Adobe (although I'm sure they're not alone) decide to change/remove features on the pretence that it will improve performance (I have both PSE9 & 11 & it hasn't!) without mentioning it to potentail customers who rightly assume there will be no diference in quality.

     

    It's also been suggested that choice of monitor makes a difference - well since I first contributed to this post, i've upgraded my monitors to a pair of Dell U2414H's  - 24" 1920 x 1080 & I don't think it's made much if any difference to the F11 preview.

     

    My other annoyance was that support for dual monitors had been removed, again without informing customers. I now mainly use Lightroom for catalogueing and it does support dual monitors but even with Lightroom, the F11 preview although better is not quite as sharp as it is with earlier PSE versions. This may of course be more to some folks liking or indeed more 'accurate' but it would be nice to have the choice as to which sharpening algorythm is used.

     

    On a final point, I'd have thought a lot more than 10% of Elements users would use the organiser? And possibly many more if they hadn't messed about with the sharpening & dual monitor support

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 23, 2014 12:06 AM   in reply to Les_Cornwell

    Les_Cornwell wrote:

     

    My other annoyance was that support for dual monitors had been removed, again without informing customers.

    Dual monitor is still available.

    http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79587&highlight =dual+monitors

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 23, 2014 1:37 AM   in reply to MichelBParis

    MichelBParis wrote:

     

    Les_Cornwell wrote:

     

    My other annoyance was that support for dual monitors had been removed, again without informing customers.

    Dual monitor is still available.

    http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79587&highlight =dual+monitors

     

     

    I think that works for certain  windows for example when editing but not with organiser - with previous versions you could have the organiser open on one monitor and open a full screen (F11) preview on a 2nd monitor. You certainly can't do that with PSE11 & I doubt you can with PSE12 unless someone can confirm otherwise...

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 24, 2014 1:27 AM   in reply to MichelBParis

    Hello Michel

     

    First, to avoid any misunderstanding, I would like to stress/describe clearly, that I appreciate and respect very much the high quality support that you provide to users of this forum. Myself, was in the past one of the lucky beneficiaries of your very appreciated support and expertise. But even (and especially) from persons who I genuinely appreciate and respect, I can not accept all what they tell or write.

     

    Now to your question, whether I “contest the facts”:

      I am not sure what you refer to with “the facts”?

      Is it the asserted “10% ?” of PSE users who use the Organizer;  and/or is it the asserted “less than 1%” ?

     

      If that is the case: where are these “facts” or numbers reliably documented? I indeed vehemently contest that these numbers are “facts”....but I will of course be ready to change my position on the subject of these “facts” when seeing a credible documentation.

     

    .

    I could write more about the popularity of the PSE Organizer and of the Lr Organizer/Library-Module....The PSE Organizer deserves more than the asserted 10%. But I would not like to do that on a public basis in the Forum. I will be happy to do that in a private email if I will get your email-id..

     

    .

    On your other following question “How can you tell that I 'justify regresses' ?“:

      Probably “justifying” was not the correct wordings. Instead I should have written that I am outraged, about the use of pseudo-facts for an apologetical downplaying (I am not sure whether “downplaying” describes accurately what  I would have described in my native language (which is probably also your native   language) with “bagatellisation”) of one of these regresses...a regress which does not contribute to improve the quality and popularity of the Organizer . And a “bagatellisation” which does not help those PSE users who depend  on the qualities of the PSE Organizer.

     

    But as mentioned above: I genuinely esteeme very much your excellent contributions to the forum. It is especially because of the esteeme that I have for you and  for your excellent contributions that I was outraged by what I had read and then quoted in my previous forum.   

     

    Keep gooing with your excellent contributions.

    And looking forward to see improvements in the Organizer (by the way: one Organizer improvement which has been very important for me and for my huge 70’000 items PSE catalog, has been the substantial Full-Screen View performance improvements/differences between V8 and V10),  who is very important for me and which I love despite its existing shortcomings

     

    Sincerely

    Robert

     
    |
    Mark as:

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (1)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points