Upgrading from PSE 10 to 11, I noticed that when I watch my images with the organizer in PSE 11 in full screen view mode (F11), while the images load faster, they are shown in a lower quality than in PSE 10 or any other version of PSE that I owned before. In PSE 11, after the initial viewing in full screen (in the "fit screen" mode), when I click with the mouse on an image to display the "100%" view, there is a delay and the program says "Loading...", after which the 100% view in the full screen mode appears. When I then click another time with the mouse on the image to get back to "fit screen" mode, I get an image of better quality than during the initial view!
So it seems like the program first gives a faster, but lower quality view of the image in full screen mode, and only after the user requests a 100% view, it actually loads the image with full detail, which is then preserved when going back to the "fit screen" view. This is a serious issue for me, because I also use PSE organizer to present my pictures to other people, and I don't want to show them some lower quality versions of my images, but the full quality ones, without having to first choose "100% view" and then go back to "fit screen".
How can I make the PSE 11 organizer give me a full-quality full screen image right away, as this used to be the case in PSE10 and before?
(I have both versions, PSE 11 and PSE 10, now on the same computer and tested this to confirm that the PSE 11 initial full screen view is of lower quality than the PSE 10 one. Also in PSE 10, there is practically no delay for displaying the "100%" view afterwards, indicating that the image was loaded with full detail right away.)
Adobe support today confirmed me that this is a new feature in PSE 11: When you press F11 in organizer, the full-screen image that you view actually comes from a pre-stored thumbnail with lower resolution. Only after you watch the picture in full-screen at 100%, it loads the full resolution image, which is why there is another loading delay in that step. This has been changed from earlier versions including PSE 10, apparently in order to save memory and make the program faster.
However, effectively this means that after all the work a photographer did, using expensive equipment in order to get sharp, high-resolution images, the PSE 11 organizer lets them watch you in full screen only in thumbnail quality!! (Unless each time you click first to 100% view, and then back to "fit to screen" view.)
They have taken this up to the next higher support layer, at least. I hope that they at least make an option to load the full-quality picture right away when pressing F11. (Like it was in all previous PSE versions.)
Hi...
A few questions on this issue-
What happens if you launch Full Screen View and then wait for a second or two so that the first image loads completely (in high resolution) and then start navigating using say arrow keys. Does the Loading symbol still comes?
What format of file are you viewing in FSV and what is the average size?
Does the same issue happen when you start FSV using the "Slideshow" button present on the bottom action panel?
Thanks
Andaleeb
Hi,
the image won't load completely after pressing F11, independently on whether you wait for a while or not. It will be based on a lower-resolution thumbnail, and only when you go to 100% view the image will be fully loaded.
I am viewing jpg images, large resolution, 4000*3000 or above.
Yes, it is the same if you use the "slideshow" button instead of pressing F11.
Best regards,
polarhki
polarhki has continued this discussion here:
http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76799
You can share your comments here and see if the solution in post #14 (with the hidden prefs in Elements+) may be good for you.
- Update:
* Adobe's senior support level has replied to me about this issue as follows:
"Thank you for contacting Adobe.
When you press the F11 button, Organizer 11 uses the Bicubic
interpolation mainly because it is less processor intensive compared to
Bicubic Sharper, and it helps to create the preview on the fly, rather
than based on the thumbnail cache.
When you zoom out from the 100% view, Elements Organizer uses Bicubic
Sharper. This is because Bicubic Sharper is used for image reduction, so
if the 100% view is larger than the available screen space, it will need
to shrink. The Bicubic Sharper images may look more crisp however, Like
any sharpening algorithm, Bicubic Sharper introduces halos and
edge-enhancement artifacts. Those halos are typically slight, but any
further sharpening (which you'll need when preparing an image for print,
for example) will exaggerate them.This is expected behavior. The
Organizer isn't great for determining exact quality, I recommend you to
use Elements Editor for this purpose.
Thank you,
Bobby Johnson,
Adobe Technical Support."
* My reply on this to Adobe is:
"Hello Bobby,
thank you for your reply. Now at least we are talking about the same thing.
Why I am wondering about the choice to use the "Bicubic" algorithm when pressing F11 in PSE 11 is that all previous versions of PSE that I owned (which spans from PSE 6 to PSE 10) did use the "Bicubic Sharper" algorithm right away when pressing F11. So apparently Adobe didn't worry about processor intensity of this algorithm then, and computers are getting all the time more powerful.
It is true that in some situations, the "Bicubic Sharper" algorithm may introduce halos and edge-enhancement artifacts, as you write. On the other hand, especially on smaller resolution screens, the results of the "Bicubic Sharper" algorithm may look more crisp and lively, while the ones of the "Bicubic" algorithm may look more flat and lack fine detail. This is not only my personal opinion, but as I have brought up this topic in several forums, I can see that I am not alone here.
So assuming that the question about preferring "Bicubic Sharper" or "Bicubic" as a default algorithm when pressing F11 is partly a matter of taste, and partly a matter of the hardware the user has available, why can Abobe not give the user an option to choose which one he/she would prefer? For instance, F11 gives full screen view with "Bicubic" applied, and CTRL+F11 with "Bicubic sharper"? Or make this an option in the preferences?
As I am using the PSE organizer also to present pictures to other people (and I know many people who use it that way too), I would like to show them my pictures as sharp and detail-rich as possible. Therefore, I would highly appreciate an option as described above to be implemented in the PSE 11 organizer via an update. It should be fairly easy from a programming point of view, since both algorithms are already contained in the program anyway."
* If you support this suggestion of mine as stated above, please also contact Adobe accordingly! The more support requests they get for this, the more likely it is that they will implement this update! You may mention my case number 0184046323 for reference.
Just found this thread & totally agree with Polarhki - I noticed the fullscreen preview wasn't so good & was beginning to think it was my eyesight that was the problem!
To me, being able to see my photos fullscreen in the best possible quality is the most important feature of Elements (surely the whole point of a fullscreen preview?) & I don't want to open every picture up in the editor just to see it at it's best. I only use Elements to organise my files, I use CS6 for editing them.
Due to this latest downgrade and the fact that you can no longer open the F11 preview on a separate monitor (as you could with previous versions), I find I'm using Elements very rarely these days.
I'm tempted to uninstall PSE11 & go back to PSE10 although I don't know if the catalogue would still work or if you can convert it back to an earlier version.
It really annoys me when companies do this - bring out a newer version that has features missing from previous versions.
I guess it's very unlikely Adobe will take onboard our comments - as with most large companies they'll carry on regardless, safe in the knowledge that they know what we want better than we do ![]()
Les_Cornwell wrote:
.To me, being able to see my photos fullscreen in the best possible quality is the most important feature of Elements (surely the whole point of a fullscreen preview?) & I don't want to open every picture up in the editor just to see it at it's best. I only use Elements to organise my files, I use CS6 for editing them.
You don't need to open the editor, as already mentionned several times in this thread. You only need two clicks on the image : the first one to go to 100% view, the second to get back to full window view. What is shown then is exactly what you got in previous versions (two clicks, two seconds).
In my experience, PSE11 is much quicker than previous versions in its display even with raw files.
There are two reasons to prefer the bicubic sharper algorithm :
- providing a 'snappier' image in F11 used as a slideshow. That's mainly valid for showing on small displays or laptops. On my 1920x1200 24" calibrated screen, I don't really need it, but I understand that it should be offered, at least as an option.
- Evaluating the detail quality (pixel peeping) of images. If you are serious about quality, you judge at 100% view without any downsizing and you can tell the difference between sharpening levels and detail quality. The problem is still harder when you are mostly working on raw files where you have several steps of sharpening in the ACR dialog and possibly in the editor depending on your output choice.
I guess it's very unlikely Adobe will take onboard our comments - as with most large companies they'll carry on regardless, safe in the knowledge that they know what we want better than we do
Well, maybe you know better that me what I want
But since we are at guesses, I think if I were Adobe, I would take that request seriously... time will tell.
I appreciate you can click twice to get the sharper version but it is a pain if you want to look through a set of pictures, having to press the L or R arrow key then mouse click twice.
As to only being valid on smaller displays - I use a 20" non-widescreen Dell Ultrasharp monitor & the difference is quite noticeable.
I just cannot see the point of making images appear less sharp on screen when surely the whole point is to view out photographs at their best?
Les_Cornwell wrote:
I just cannot see the point of making images appear less sharp on screen when surely the whole point is to view out photographs at their best?
That's a big point. Not a technical point, I would say an artistic point. We do agree that the difference in the display is the sharpening, not the detail level. So you prefer photographs to be displayed sharper to be at their best. Many film oldtimers consider that level of sharpening as an obvious defect typical of digital images. No one is right, no one is wrong. That's why I agree that there should be an option about the downsizing and sharpening method.
It has been mentionned in this discussion that viewing photos at their best when downsized on a display implies other much more important factors :
- screen size and resolution
- calibration and gamut
- angle of view (how many viewers ?, at which distance ?)
- lighting of the viewing room...
So, while I do agree that everyone should be able to get the 'quality' of sharpening they prefer, I strongly suggest to think about the conditions of the viewing session to optimize the output.
I do maintain that if what you want is a organizing session for yourself to sort pictures by pixel peeping, the present PSE11 F11 view is adequate.
If what you want is to create a kind of 'instant slideshow' for showing 'at its best' to several persons, you should prepare albums or folders with resizing and sharpening optimized to the output display so that you get better results than with PSE11... or any previous version.
You have the choice to export your selected files or to use the 'process multiple files' feature : then I strongly recommend to test if the default export sharpening option is ok for you (it's very strong).
For the very best results, I would use free external tools like FastStone photo resizer which offer more advanced resizing and sharpening algorithms for batch edition. That would be true even if Adobe restored the old 'bicubic sharper' solution.
I just like my images to be displayed, not sharper than they should be, but as sharp as they should be which is how I believe they have always been displayed in previous versions of Elements. I feel that in an attempt to make the F11 preview quicker, PSE11 creates a less sharp almost blurry image (which is more or less what Bobby from Tech Support has suggested above).
If I want to look through a set of pictures I've just taken or show them to a friend or family member, why should I have to "prepare albums or folders with resizing and sharpening' just to show my pictures to someone or view them myself? The alternative of course is to have to double-click each photo every time or explain that "No, I do still take sharp photos, it's just that Elements makes them look blurred by default!"
As that's the way previous versions have worked, Adobe should have left as is & given us the option to change to the new method if we want to, not just enforced it. And along with disabling dual monitor support it's instantly removed for me at least, the two most important functions.
PS. How does one escalate an issue to Adobe staff?
I certainly wont bother with any more Elements upgrades until this issue is resolved AND dual monitor support is restored.
Unfortunately I don't think I can revert my catalogue from PSE11 back to PSE9. If it was possible, I would go back to using PSE 9 and uninstall PSE11.
It would be nice if when releasing an new version of Elements, Adobe told customers what features they would be removing as well as telling us about any new ones, or better still, dont remove the features in the first place!
Shame we can't email Adobe about these omissions but I cant see how to do it - perhaps they dont want to listen ![]()
Tried to raise this issue (and removal of dual monitor support) via 'chat' today without much success; other than a 'that's how it is supposed to be response' regarding fullscreen preview and 'dual monitor setup is not reccomended'.
I did point out that whichever way you look at it, both issues I raised worked fine with PS9 but don't with PSE11 and at least got agrrement to escalate to 2nd line support.
I just find it so frustrating when large companies decide to change a product without informing customers and then attempt to explain the change as 'that's how the product is supposed to perform'. in other words, "We've changed it, if you don't like it tough, most people won't bother complaining".
Time to move on from Elements and look elsewhere. What's so annoying is that even programs like Faststone viewer let you adjust how you like your images to look when you view them and that program is free! Surely as a paid for program, elements could at least give customers a choice??
I am also quite disappointed. I spent hours with the Adobe support chat before they actually understood what is the issue. (First they wanted me to reinstall my graphics card driver etc.) Then the "second level support" just told me that I could post this as a suggestion on yet another Adobe web page, all from the start...
It is especially disappointing as the "fix" would be extremely easy to do, since the necessary "bicubic faster" algorithm is already part of the program anyway. And has been used through all previous version for the full screen viewing process. Just make a check box in the options to determine whether to use either "bicubic", or "bicubic sharper", for full screen viewing...
I still haven't heard from Adobe 2nd line support and dont expect to.
I wish I could email Adobe about this but there doesn't seem to be a facility to do so & I doubt they would take any notice either.
I just cannot work with the organiser as it is & dont use the editor (use CS6 for editing) so think I will reinstall PSE9, update a copy of the old catalogue I had for PSE9 & just use that. I may keep the PSE11 catalogue updated too just in case a future version of Elements corrects the preview issue & reinstates dual monitor support, but I wont be buying it before installing a trial next time!
What with making CS subscription only in future too, Adobe sure know how to get rid of customers!
EDIT: PSE9 now installed, catalogue updated. Much nicer - no more burred images & dual screen support again
Will be certain to try out trial version before I 'upgrade' to later version again ![]()
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