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Photoshop adding yellow to lightroom imports

Jan 23, 2013 8:59 AM

I use Lightroom 4 and CS6 on a win7/64 PC. When I edit a Lightroom photo in CS6 and save it back to Lightroom as a PSD, I notice that the PSD is slightly more yellow than the original Lightroom image. This is verified in the PSD histogram, where the yellow portion is a little larger and uniform than the RAW version histogram. This happens whether I export in 16 bit AdobeRGB (1998), and Photoshop is also set to edit in 16 bit AdobeRGB (1998), or both are set to ProphotoRGB. The yellow shift can be seen when comparing a photo prior to and after Photoshop  adjustment (no tonal adjustment made in Photoshop) in Lightroom and also when comparing the Lightroom photo and the picture in Photoshop as soon as it is imported.  My monitor was calibrated about a month ago, so that is unlikely to be the problem. Can anyone tell me why this might be happening?

 

I am inserting a clip of my Photoshop color settings in hope that that can add some info.Color settings snip.JPG

 
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,486 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jan 26, 2013 10:51 AM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

     

    I am surprised that an Adobe forum has not grnered any attempt to provide help

     

    Keep in mind that discussions about how to "fix color management problems" or "how to do color management right" often turn nasty.  I tend to avoid them for that reason.

     

    Color-management is a difficult subject, and has so many variables and tradeoffs that there might actually be large number of ways to get things done.  There might be one best way for YOU, but that almost takes an interview to determine what's most important to you.

     

    Here are some thoughts that might help:

     

    1.  Color-management is done by individual applications, facilitated by the system.

     

    2.  Not every application does color management, and the ones that claim to do it don't all do it correctly or completely!  Some even work properly with some color profiles and not others.

     

    3.  The act of calibration and profiling involves setting up some things that affect the entire system (the calibration part) and some things that the system maintains but which are used by those applications that do color management (the profile part).

     

    4.  There are quite a large number of settings, and they're all necessary and there for good reason.  The only way to be sure of choosing the right settings for YOU is to understand how color-management works, whether to expect it to work in certain situations, and to make intelligent choices.  There is no "one right way" to set all the options, no matter how many people will try to advise you to do things a particular way.

     

    5.  You will be tempted to give up understanding it and try to pick a set of options that "just work".  Don't give up; there are no shortcuts.

     

     

    Perhaps we should start by discussing what's important to you.

     

    Do you print?  Is it most important that what you see in Photoshop and Lightroom match your prints?  Do you expect to match prints you make locally to those you send out for?

     

    Is it important whether your applications match one another on the screen?  Are you willing to make alternate application choices to help achieve that?

     

    What browser(s) do you use to view your images?  What other graphics applications do you use?

     

    -Noel

     
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    Jan 26, 2013 3:47 PM   in reply to howdego

    .

    .

    i don't use Lightroom so i wasn't able to follow your post

     

    but if you open a known good tagged color reference image like the PDI WHACKED RGB (use the embeded profile) in Photoshop and Lightroom

     

    both apps should display the PDI image the same (correctly)

     

    is that happening

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 28, 2013 8:09 AM   in reply to howdego

    whacked image jpeg for windows.  I imported it into Lightroom and Photshop.  The both look fine. 

     

    if LR and Ps are a dead-on visual "match" on the tagged Whacked RGB file -- that indicates that your monitor profile is at least okay, and your apps are using the embedded profile

     

    more than likely you are having ICC profile (work flow) issues, make sure you are 1st embedding the correct profile, and 2nd that you are using that profile when opening them in Photoshop

     

    by Photoshop Edit> Assign (various) Profiles, you may get a clue what's going on if you stumble on the correct profile

     

    you've got some digging to do...

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,486 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jan 28, 2013 8:10 AM   in reply to howdego

    First rate? 

     

    Something to keep in mind is that Internet Explorer is not a fully color-managed program. They made a start - the application now (since IE9) interprets color profiles embedded in images. But it does nothing about web page elements other than image data, and it ALWAYS assumes the output device implements sRGB IEC61966-2.1, no matter what your monitor profile (i.e., it ignores your monitor profile).

     

    FireFox actually has enough savvy to do the whole job right, but last time I looked the configuration isn't set to do that out of the box.  You have to go into about:config and make a change to gfx.color_management.mode (i.e., to 1) in order to get it to FULLY color-manage web material (images and web page elements alike).

     

    Lightroom and Photoshop definitely SHOULD be showing you the same things.  If they're not, chances are good you have a poorly formed monitor color profile (the beasts are complicated and may cause problems with some software), or have some settings that are wrong in one or both programs.  I don't use Lightroom so I can't speak to that.

     

    You should also know that Photoshop itself, when you use the ProPhoto RGB color profile and certain GPU settings, can display inaccurate results on the screen - though yellowing an image isn't something I've seen reported to come from that.  Usually it's more along the lines of purple and green tints in areas that should be gray.

     

    I see you 've made some non-default choices for your Photoshop color management settings.  Whether they're better for you, or whether you've touched all the settings that can matter, I don't know (for example, you're not showing the Worfkow Options for Camera Raw, to confirm whether you have it making conversions into the ProPhoto RGB color space).  Nor are you describing the steps you take if Photoshop prompts you because of a difference in the incoming image color space and the one you've set up as your preferred working space.

     

    Practically speaking, there are ways to optimize a system so that there's more color consistency between applications (even those that don't color-manage, in some cases) while retaining accuracy.  There are also ways to maximize the color gamut displayed in fully color-managed applications when a wide gamut monitor is used, which may lead to things looking different in non- or partially-color-managed applications.  The byword is that, given the state of the art, you have to be prepared to find a compromise that suits you.

     

    -Noel

     
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    Jan 29, 2013 12:14 PM   in reply to howdego

    it is easy to tell what source profile Ps is using (see my previous PDI link):

     

    Photoshop_Document_Profile.jpg

     

    i don't want to get bogged down in workflow/settings (but it does appear you are running a factory Dell "Default" monitor profile, not a custom monitor profile? not that that should cause Ps to display differently than LR)

     

    my original point was to verify that Lightroom and Ps are both using the correct tagged ICC source profile, and they are displaying the Whacked RGB visually identical -- you have confirmed they are working properly using the Whacked RGB PDI target

     

    ICC profile (workflow) issues can be any of the settings inbetween that skew color management...

     

    my next test would be to process your RAW image into Ps (where you see the color "error"), Save As .tif and open that .tif in Lightroom

     

    at that point Lightroom should visually show the same "error" as Ps (as they both display the PDI visually the same)

     

    if it doesn't i would look at how Lightroom is applying the Saved .tif embedded source profile

     

    and your ACR settings (but then maybe the clue is in your LR settings, i don't know)

     

    acr.jpg

     
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    Jan 29, 2013 12:19 PM   in reply to gator soup

    PS

     

    If you open your RAW image in ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) from Adobe Bridge, does Ps still show the "error"

     
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    Jan 30, 2013 8:55 PM   in reply to howdego
    I don’t know how to use Bridge

     

     

    just drag a folder of RAW files onto the Bridge .app icon (it should open and display thumbnails)

     

    click once on a thumbnail to Preview it

     

    2xClick on a thumbnail to open it in ACR

    or right+Click on a thumbnail> Open With camera RAW

     

    when it opens in Ps, it should look very close to the ACR preview, saved .tif should "match" in Lightroom and Ps

     

     

    I then opened the ACR image into PS, saved it as a Tiff, and imported it into Lightroom.  Sure enough, I still visually see the Lightroom RAW image to be slightly less yellow (less bright??) than the tiff,

     

     

    i couldn't follow that... you mean ACR previews the RAW image differently than Photoshop

     

    can you post a screenshot of your ACR window alongside the file in Photoshop (make sure "Document Profile" is showing in Photoshop's lower left corner and we can see the entire Photoshop top window)

     

    dp.jpg

     
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    Feb 2, 2013 5:37 PM   in reply to howdego

    the default color space for PS appears to be sRGB

     

    no reason to speculate Ps RGB "default"

    Edit> Color Settings> Working Spaces: RGB (profile noted is your default)

    that said

     

    your screen shots don't have embedded ICC profiles so I can't see exactly what you are talking about

     

    your ACR looks like it is applying the sRGB profile

    srgbACR.jpg

     

    and your Ps window is using ProPhotoRGB

     

    there is a reason i asked that you include ACR and Ps windows in the same screenshot so i don't get confused trying to put a puzzle together

     
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    Feb 2, 2013 5:52 PM   in reply to gator soup
    1. I developed a picture in Lightroom (picture 1)
    2. I opened it into Photoshop (picture 2).  Note the sky color change, a little yellowing of the building, and the shadows are a little darker

     

    what do you mean "i developed a picture in Lightroom"

     

    you mean you Saved a RGB jpg/tiff in Lr

    you embedded an ICC profile

    you opened that image in Ps (using the embedded profile) and there is even a slight difference in appearance (because i would think they should be a dead-on visual match)

     

    again, i will recommend setting the windows up side-by-side and take a one screenshot of both Lr and Ps windows showing all the pertinent info (embed the correct profile), and upload it so we can see exactly what you are talking about...

     
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    Feb 5, 2013 11:02 AM   in reply to howdego

    i am pretty sure the camera profile doesn't matter if you shoot RAW and open in ACR

     

    what does matter is the profile you set up in ACR

    and you didn't include the ACR window to confirm your profile

     

    also, your new screenshots don't seem to have an embedded profile

     

    i am having difficulty trying to follow your outline, but

     

    STEP ONE:

    take a screenshot of your ACR and Photoshop windows side by side

    this is to confirm they "match" (and using the same profile)

     

    STEP TWO:

    Photoshop, Save As a copy of your RGB test document in tif or jpg (embed the profile)

     

    STEP THREE:

    open that copy in both Lr and Ps (use embedded profile)

    take a screenshot of your Lr and Ps windows side by side

    this is to confirm they "match" (and Ps Source Profile)

     

    embed the proper profile in your screenshots and post them

     

    until you do this i don't think i can help much, maybe someone else can drop in

     

    good luck

     
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    Feb 10, 2013 11:27 AM   in reply to howdego

    if embedding the profile is a headache, forget it, the way you combined both windows and info is more useful for comparison as any profile issue would apply to both windows

     

    ACR and Photoshop look very close (i am not positive we should see or expect an exact match), but i don't see a problem here

     

    Lightroom and Photoshop look like a match (you probably should have had them at the same zoom %)

     

    it looks to me like everything is working as expected so i would suspect a profile/workflow issue

     

    that's something you would need to learn how to troubleshoot on a case-by-case basis when it pops up (by verifying the software is applying the correct source profile, and converting its colors to the monitor profile)

     

    i may be wrong, but that is my read on your tests...

     
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    Feb 10, 2013 12:01 PM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

     

    Don’t know why you haven’t responded to my query, but I will try to follow your instructions to see what happens:

     

    1. I opened a previously untouched RAW photo using PS.  It opened in ACR.  I immediately opened it into PS.  I then opened the RAW photo again to get the RAW image again and produced the side by side screenshot.  I did detect something I haven’t noticed before.  To my eye, the sky of the ACR image seems a little brighter than the PS image.  Do you see that?PS vs. ACR 488.JPG

     

     

    It's easy to prove that your screenshot has an equally bright image on left and right. Open the screenshot in Photoshop. Rectangle-marquee the Ps-displayed image and Cmd/Ctrl+J to copy to a new layer then drag that into alignment over the ACR-displayed image. Toggle the top layer off and on to see that there's no difference. Also, here's a screenshot with the top layer in Difference mode. The big black rectangle is where the images overlap - black means zero difference.

     

    Screen shot 2013-02-10 at 19.56.05.png

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,486 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 10, 2013 4:45 PM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

     


    I did detect something I haven’t noticed before.  To my eye, the sky of the ACR image seems a little brighter than the PS image.

     

    Since it's shown by Conroy to be in fact not at all different, the possible explanation is that your monitor's response isn't consistent from one place to the other.

     

    It could be that your viewing angle is affecting the apparent brightness, but even if it is not, slight differences from one place to another on a given monitor are pretty common, actually, though they're more often seen at the center vs. near the edge.

     

    -Noel

     
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    Feb 12, 2013 11:00 AM   in reply to howdego

    The side by side images in reply #24 are so obviously very different that there's no need to calculate the difference to determine whether a difference exists. Your choice of picture in reply #20 could not have hidden the huge difference that's being displayed in reply #24.

     
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    Feb 13, 2013 2:39 PM   in reply to howdego

    The differences in post #20 were less than subtle. The side by side displayed images were identical apart from tiny variations that can be explained by the JPEG compression of the screenshot that you posted.

     

    The side by side displayed images in post #24 are grossly different. If the one raw file is being displayed in both Camera Raw and Lightroom then the programs are making different adjustments to produce their images.

     
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    Feb 13, 2013 10:32 PM   in reply to howdego

    If there is any difference iy's because they aren't being rendered identically, one is percetual and the other is relative. You can't display ProPhoto and the wider yelows have to go somewhere.

     
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    Feb 14, 2013 7:20 AM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

     

    It was suggested that I remove and reinstall my PS  6 Extended, the thought being that ACR or something else did not install properly.  Any thoughts about that?

     

    I guess it won't do any harm to remove and re-install. Do it anyway to set your mind at rest. Make sure have matching Camera Raw and Lightroom. For example, CR 7.3 and Lr 4.3.

     
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    Feb 14, 2013 4:25 PM   in reply to howdego

    If PS renders perceptual and LR renders relative or vice versa the images will differ.

     
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