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bcondoral
Currently Being Moderated

Duplicate TIFF files when using "Edit in PS CS5"

Jan 23, 2013 2:00 PM

Tags: #lightroom #photoshop #cs5 #duplicate #tiff #lr4

Hello there,

 

I'm using LR 4.3 and CS5, with ACR 6.7 installed. Whenever I'm using "Edit in PS CS5" comand inside LR, automatically I'm getting a duplicate TIFF file added to my LR catalog. How can I avoid this? Thank you for your time!

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 23, 2013 2:06 PM   in reply to bcondoral

    Edit in (an outdated) Photoshop (with LR adjustments) has to create a separate file to transfer the image to PS. 

     

    If you don’t want any intermediate file you would need to upgrade to PS-CS6.

     

    Does “duplicate TIF” refer to two different TIFs only one of which has been described, or just the one TIF used to transfer the image to PS that seems to be a duplicate of your original file (which I suppose could be a TIF, too)?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 23, 2013 2:57 PM   in reply to bcondoral

    On your LR 4.1 computer do you get any TIFs at all?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 23, 2013 3:37 PM   in reply to bcondoral

    bcondoral wrote:

     

    It seems to be a duplicate of the original file. For example, if I edit one photo from LR to PS 10 times, I will have the original file plus 10 more TIF copies added to my LR catalog. On my other computer, where I'm running LR 4.1 and CS5 I don't have this problem.

     

    This is so, and it's expected.

    CS5 doesn't have the latest ACR and you cannot install it in CS5.

    That means that CS5 cannot open a Raw file that Lr 4.3 sends; rather Lr has to render the TIFF (or PSD) and send it to CS5. When you then - after ediing in CS5 - just <save> you will end up with two images in Lr: Your original Raw file and the (CS5 edited) TIFF.

     

    If you repeat this 10 times, Lr will each time create another TIFF (or PSD). That is expected. If you don't want this (and who would), you have to edit the TIFF in CS5 via <Edit Original>.

     

    In the end it would be not different in CS6. While CS6 has the latest ACR and can read Raw files sent from Lr 4.3, CS6 cannot save to the Raw file (Photoshop cannot do that). So when you <save> a TIFF (or PSD) is created that shows up in Lr besides your Raw file.

     

    So, yes, editing Raw files in Photoshop creates duplicate files as TIFFs or PSDs.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 23, 2013 3:54 PM   in reply to bcondoral

    Yes, but when you save this TIFF in CS5 (as opposed to <save as>) you have the same end result: Lr shows one (1) TIFF with the Ps edits. You don't end up with 2 TIFFs.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 23, 2013 4:02 PM   in reply to bcondoral

    The difference that you are seing between Lr 4.1 and 4.3 is this: In Lr 4.3 you see the rendered TIFF before the image is opened in CS5. In Lr 4.1 you don't.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 23, 2013 4:14 PM   in reply to bcondoral

    When you do an Edit In from LR to PS 10 times, are you doing an Edit In of the TIF from the previous PS Save or are you doing an Edit In of the original file?  In other words are you accumulating your PS edits in the last TIF or are you making 10 different versions of the same original file?

     

    Is your original file a raw file (CR2, NEF, RW2) or a JPG or a TIF file from somewhere other than a camera?

     

    Do you have Stack with Original set in the LR External Editing preferences in either LR4 version?   Is anything else different between the two sets of 12 settings in the External Editing preferences?

     

    Are you sure LR4.1 isn’t adding to the catalog, but perhaps putting the file at the end of the thumbnails so you don’t notice it?  A clue would be that the TIF filename changes each time when you arrive in PS?

     

    In the LR export panel do you have Add to This Catalog enabled in one of your LR’s but not the other?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 23, 2013 4:17 PM   in reply to bcondoral

    I don't have Lr 4.1 any more but it has been in Lr always like this:

    You send a file to Photoshop 10 times you get 10 TIFFs or PSDs, and the files will be named -1, -2, -3, etc.

     

    And why not? When you send the Raw file again to Photoshop the assumption is that you want to do a different edit than the first time. If you had just wanted to re-edit the TIFF, you'd send that to Photoshop.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 24, 2013 7:20 AM   in reply to bcondoral

    Ok, so there aren’t TIFs with LR 4.1, you’re actually using ACR 6.7 to open the raw files into PS.  

     

    When LR and PS are mismatched in versions, as they are with LR4 being newer than CS5/ACR6, you usually have a choice upon doing Edit In PS whether to Open Anyway using the old ACR from the previous version of PS which you are doing with LR 4.1 or to render with LR adjustments which you are doing with LR 4.3.  The Open Anyway usually won’t give you exactly the same image as you see in LR but doesn’t generate an intermediate file.  The Open with LR Adjustments does give you the same rendering but generates an intermediate file, the TIF you’re seeing.

     

    ACR 6.7 is almost compatible with LR 4.x but there is a bug where the boundaries for toning adjustments are computed with the non-lens-profile-adjusted image while the toning adjustments, themselves, are performed on the lens-profile-adjusted image, so there can be artifacts along high-contrast edges.  There is also no manual defringing available in ACR 6.7 so that adjustment if you did it in LR would be ignored if you use ACR 6.7 on the way into PS.

     

    The more perfect rendering between LR4 and PS-CS5 is to use Render with LR adjustments and is what you’re doing with your LR 4.3 setup.

     

    If you want to make different choices to either use ACR 6.7 for both PS installs or to render with LR adjustments with both PS installs then click the button in LR that resets all warning dialogs so you will be asked the question about Open Anyway or LR-Adjustments when you use Edit In.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 24, 2013 1:00 PM   in reply to bcondoral

    LR4 and ACR7 are fully compatible with each other. 

     

    LR4 was released a few weeks before ACR7 (CS6) became available so Adobe released ACR 6.7 as a stopgap measure to allow CS5 to integrate with LR4 ahead of ACR7/CS6 being released.  Once ACR7/CS6 was released any support for CS5 was stopped so no more bug fixes or rendering enhancements.  As such ACR 6.7 only knows how to do things the way the original LR4 does and has some bugs that have subsequently been fixed in future version of LR4 and ACR7/CS6. 

     

    Perhaps since LR4.3 does more things than LR 4.1, things that ACR 6.7 can’t do, it tries harder to prevent you from using ACR 6.7 with LR4, or perhaps each of your two LR4s asked you the same question about Open Anyway or Use LR Rendering and you happened to choose differently in each case.   I don’t use LR 4.1 anymore and don’t remember, otherwise.

     

    Again, the safest thing to do when using an obsolete PS-ACR version as the Edit In target of a current LR version is to generate TIFs on the way into PS—i.e. make both your LR4 installs create TIFs, to avoid ACR 6.7 rendering bugs and deficiencies, but if you’d rather trade the convenience of not having TIFs for the imperfections of an old ACR version then you’re welcome to.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 24, 2013 1:25 PM   in reply to bcondoral

    bcondoral wrote:

     

    So this happens because 4.1 is compatible with ACR6.7 and 4.3 is not?

     

    There are two basic behaviors regarding Lightroom and Camera Raw versioning:

    If the Lightroom version and the Camera Raw version are equal (meaning LR 4.3 and ACR 7.3) Lightroom passes the image from LR to Photoshop using ACR to render the file. In this case, LR doesn't need to render the file and to the -Edit save when opening into Photoshop. Photoshop does the render and when saved, will pass that file creation back to Lightroom for adding in the catalog.

     

    However, whenever the LR version and ACR version do NOT match, Lightroom does the rendering (to be sure of proper rendering) and save the file on disk before passing the image to Photoshop. So, if you are using mismatched LR/ACR versions, this second behavior comes into play.

     

    As ssprengel correctly notes, there was a slight modification to these behaviors when LR 4 first shipped because it shipped before Photoshop CS6 and ACR 7 shipped. LR 4.0 and 4.1 (the quick dot release for camera compatibility reasons) were made to work with ACR 6.7 in Photoshop CS5 with the first behaviors working...

     

    LR 4.2 and above do not have the ACR 6.7 compatibilities so the behavior of the LR render and file saving requirement kicks in.

     

    For optimal compatibility both LR and ACR should be kept in lock-step. Since the release of CS6, ACR 6.7 is the last version of ACR for CS5, so you lose some intigration and functionality by not upgrading to Photoshop CS6 and ACR 7.x.

     
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